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Old 10.07.2018, 18:22
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Geneva Airport - Air controllers strike 23.07

Are you flying through Geneva as of July 23rd?

The union for the air traffic controllers have announced a strike for July 23rd. They are pushing for a better contract and they are currently working without a contract agreement (this happens fairly often in CH).

The latest news is that the strike on the 23rd will not last that long but if things do not move they will go to a full strike on the 25th.

https://www.24heures.ch/economie/vac...story/16275503

To keep up to date, best to watch 24heures, Lematin and the Geneva airport website.

Links here:

https://www.24heures.ch/

https://www.lematin.ch/

https://www.gva.ch/en/desktopdefault.aspx
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Old 10.07.2018, 20:32
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Re: Geneva Airport - Air controllers strike 23.07

I'm getting a little pissed with the constant strikes during summer periods. Yes, it's the time it hurts the companies most, but it's also the time most passengers are probably looking for some relaxing time, not added stress we cannot control.

Thanks for the warning. We are fortunately only passing through Geneva the following week, but will keep an eye on the development.
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Old 10.07.2018, 21:21
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Re: Geneva Airport - Air controllers strike 23.07

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I'm getting a little pissed with the constant strikes during summer periods. Yes, it's the time it hurts the companies most, but it's also the time most passengers are probably looking for some relaxing time, not added stress we cannot control.

Thanks for the warning. We are fortunately only passing through Geneva the following week, but will keep an eye on the development.
I will be watching as well. I am coming back to GVA on the 25th from North America so I am hoping that they get things worked out by then (or give priority to trans-Atlantic flights if they cut flights). I would hate to have to fly to ZRH then come back by train. A real drag after an overnight flight.
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Old 10.07.2018, 22:14
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Re: Geneva Airport - Air controllers strike 23.07

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I'm getting a little pissed with the constant strikes during summer periods. Yes, it's the time it hurts the companies most, but it's also the time most passengers are probably looking for some relaxing time, not added stress we cannot control.

Thanks for the warning. We are fortunately only passing through Geneva the following week, but will keep an eye on the development.



That is exactly the reason why they chose this date: maximum screw you
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Old 11.07.2018, 14:06
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Re: Geneva Airport - Air controllers strike 23.07

Some more news today about the current contract conditions.

Average salary is CHF 205k for 35 hours per week (but shift work) and full retirement at 56 years old.

What can we say.
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Old 11.07.2018, 15:21
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Re: Geneva Airport - Air controllers strike 23.07

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That is exactly the reason why they chose this date: maximum screw you
Also, why strike when the weather is shitty.

The Economist has an article on weather vs French strikes

which leads to

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/n...is-on-the-way/
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Old 11.07.2018, 15:27
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Re: Geneva Airport - Air controllers strike 23.07

There was an article on the local recently which claimed that air traffic controllers are the 2nd best paid job in CH
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Old 11.07.2018, 18:42
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Re: Geneva Airport - Air controllers strike 23.07

Since it is Skyguide that is being struck the effects will be on all Swiss controlled air space. Zürich and Bern at least, perhaps Basel and Lugano as well.

It’s just that most Skyguide employees are in Geneva does the media get confused and think it is only that airport that is affected.

Any traffic above 20K feet are controlled ne eurocontrol.
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Old 11.07.2018, 22:00
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Re: Geneva Airport - Air controllers strike 23.07

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That is exactly the reason why they chose this date: maximum screw you
LOL, you beat me to it.

An other thing: What's the point in warning everybody two weeks before? A strike is supposed to cause chaos, discomfort.

Plus I thought strikes were not allowed in Switzerland? Ahhhh, that's why it is announced way ahead?
That's called a "Zwergenaufstand" (protesting without prospect of success).
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Old 11.07.2018, 22:16
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Re: Geneva Airport - Air controllers strike 23.07

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That is exactly the reason why they chose this date: maximum screw you
Unfortunately, strikes like these can backfire on workers in terms of public perception and support.

I remember when I was young, the unions for the big 3 auto companies were striking. The evening news reported that the average worker had no more than a high school education but made something like 50K USD per year. That was 20K more than a teacher with a master's degree. As strikes wore on, local businesses were impacted because striking employees shop less, use less gas, eat out less, etc. That lessened sympathy even more for these so-called overpaid workers.

In terms of CH, it's hard to convince me that 205K for 35 hours a week is unfair, even if it is shift work. However if the conditions are bad, such as having to work 3 x 12 hour days in a row, then that should be dealt with.
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Old 12.07.2018, 10:52
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Re: Geneva Airport - Air controllers strike 23.07

Unions are likely the reason they have such a generous salary in the first place.

Chances are, people complaining about their high salaries work in non-union jobs and are a little bit envious. I'm big enough to admit that i am.
In any case, it seems their demands are more rest days and a 1.8% bump in salary.
The rest days i can support but the salary bump should only be considered if the company itself is showing solid profits.

In terms of inconvenience caused to people - well thats kind of the point. A strike that inconveniences nobody is a pretty pointless endeavor.
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Old 12.07.2018, 11:11
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Re: Geneva Airport - Air controllers strike 23.07

Also note that airlines are not required to pay compensation for a cancelled or delayed flight as the reasons are outside of their control.

But they are obliged to care for their passengers by rebooking or rerouting them onto the next available flight and to cover necessary meal and accommodation costs. Don't go to the caviar house at the airport and order champs and expensive fish eggs, they likely won't cover that. But reasonable expenses should be refunded.
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Old 12.07.2018, 16:04
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Re: Geneva Airport - Air controllers strike 23.07

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Unfortunately, strikes like these can backfire on workers in terms of public perception and support.

I remember when I was young, the unions for the big 3 auto companies were striking. The evening news reported that the average worker had no more than a high school education but made something like 50K USD per year. That was 20K more than a teacher with a master's degree. As strikes wore on, local businesses were impacted because striking employees shop less, use less gas, eat out less, etc. That lessened sympathy even more for these so-called overpaid workers.

In terms of CH, it's hard to convince me that 205K for 35 hours a week is unfair, even if it is shift work. However if the conditions are bad, such as having to work 3 x 12 hour days in a row, then that should be dealt with.
Keep in mind that while they 'only' work 35 hrs a week, the consequences of a single mistake can be the death of hundreds of people. I imagine that while they may not be doing the full 40 every week, it is nonetheless a very stressful job.

Personally, i wouldn't want over-stressed Air Traffic Controllers...A balance needs to be struck, and in time, probably will be.
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Old 12.07.2018, 16:33
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Re: Geneva Airport - Air controllers strike 23.07

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Keep in mind that while they 'only' work 35 hrs a week, the consequences of a single mistake can be the death of hundreds of people. I imagine that while they may not be doing the full 40 every week, it is nonetheless a very stressful job.

Personally, i wouldn't want over-stressed Air Traffic Controllers...A balance needs to be struck, and in time, probably will be.
I agree with this and your previous post. I was merely making a point that the court of public opinion sometimes counts. Thanks to the shifting opinion, workers' rights in the USA have deteriorated quite a bit because people don't support unions as much as they used to.

Today's worker, at least in the West, has benefited from collective bargaining for workers' rights. Otherwise we'd all still start working as children, work every day, and not get any holiday or have any guarantee of safety at our jobs. It's easy to forget how hard previous generations have fought for the working conditions we have, and to dismiss current union demands as frivolous just because the person on strike makes more than we do.
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Old 12.07.2018, 16:50
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Re: Geneva Airport - Air controllers strike 23.07

The ‘full retirement at 56’ is based on staff joining at 21 and doing the full 35 years. Very few actually start that young. Equally very few will complete the 35 years necessary for a full pension, the attrition rate is significant.
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Old 12.07.2018, 19:06
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Re: Geneva Airport - Air controllers strike 23.07

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Keep in mind that while they 'only' work 35 hrs a week, the consequences of a single mistake can be the death of hundreds of people. I imagine that while they may not be doing the full 40 every week, it is nonetheless a very stressful job.

Personally, i wouldn't want over-stressed Air Traffic Controllers...A balance needs to be struck, and in time, probably will be.
This is absolutely correct but at 205K one is not being taken advantage of, going on strike for more is not appropriate in my opinion. In fact, they are belittling people who REALLY hardly get by while their employer/management makes fortunes and who have no other way than to get attention drawn to it by the public.

Someone tell me please: It's the French or the Swiss going on strike?
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Old 12.07.2018, 19:55
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Re: Geneva Airport - Air controllers strike 23.07

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This is absolutely correct but at 205K one is not being taken advantage of, going on strike for more is not appropriate in my opinion. In fact, they are belittling people who REALLY hardly get by while their employer/management makes fortunes and who have no other way than to get attention drawn to it by the public.

Someone tell me please: It's the French or the Swiss going on strike?
Both? Or mostly Frontaliers since it's mostly the Geneva airport that's impacted?

https://worldradio.ch/news/2018/07/1...mmer-schedule/ and

https://www.thelocal.ch/20180710/swi...-for-late-july

Apparently three of the unions have made agreements but one is holding out.

Sorry, but this bit REALLY takes the cake:
Quote:
Skycontrol president Maximilien Turrettini says more air traffic controllers are needed. Meanwhile, union members are demanding 125 days off a year and salary increases of 1.8 percent a year for three years, or an equivalent number of days off.
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Old 12.07.2018, 20:07
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Re: Geneva Airport - Air controllers strike 23.07

I suggest free visual flight training for all pilots (bet it's been a long time they actually practiced that).

A very good date will be July 23rd and Geneva airport is the perfect location as it is not as bis and comple as Zurich airport.
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Old 17.07.2018, 10:10
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Re: Geneva Airport - Air controllers strike 23.07

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Some more news today about the current contract conditions.

Average salary is CHF 205k for 35 hours per week (but shift work) and full retirement at 56 years old.

What can we say.
First up, to all the people writing comments do any of you ever say thanks to the air traffic controllers that get you where you want to go every day safely and in good time? Maybe you're some one who claps for the Pilot when he lands at the destination.
How many times on this flight has someone watching over that airplane given him alternative routes to arrive faster, avoid weather, avoid other aircraft, or that provides him support when there is something not working correctly in the plane.
No we only see how much they earn and how little they work.

So to the "alternative truths"
This is not the average salary. This is the maximum salary after 28 years working for the company including "danger pay" due to working in an area where you handle peoples lives in aircraft travelling in excess of 900kmh and also where you can get prosecuted for doing your job and do real jail time.

I don't think its fair to blame the strike happening now at the union. The meetings for the new working contract started approximately 2 years ago.

Does no one else get an yearly increase in salary according to the increasing yearly costs?

Unfortunately for many air traffic controllers there is no option to change to a different employer. In Switzerland there is only one ATC provider. If that employer starts to take advantage of the employees they have no where else to go except leave the country?
That is definitely being taken advantage of.

Luckily though only figures about salary and weekly working hours are being published, information which generally builds support for Skyguide. Nothing detrimental about the working conditions has been published.... isn't that surprising.
Actually the retirement age was raised in 2017 to 56 from 55 with out any issue. No strike nothing.... makes the air traffic controllers sound a bit more reasonable right.

Skyguide is a non profit organisation made a profit in 2016 of 7 million

The only reason that pressure is being put on Skyguide to reduce costs is that the airlines are lobbying the European governments that the ATC costs are too high. No one is enforcing such low ticket prices except all of us consumers.
Maybe if we paid 25chf more for each ticket there would be no strikes at all?

as for public support. No one likes someone else getting paid more. We are all miserable sods not earning enough.

food for thought..

P.S don't be a sheep and just accept all information that's being presented at face value. There is usually a back ground story.
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Old 17.07.2018, 11:32
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Re: Geneva Airport - Air controllers strike 23.07

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Does no one else get an yearly increase in salary according to the increasing yearly costs?
According to official statistics there is no inflation in Switzerland. So why would there be any cost of living increases?

[Yes I know the statistics are bullsh*t]

Before I retired I hadn't had a 'yearly increase' in over 15 years. I had a few merit based increases by no COL increases.

Also can you enlighten me on how many ATC centres handle a flight between Zurich and Dublin? (Is it eight or nine?) Or Paris and Zagreb? And why so many? EU governments seem willing to give up authority over civil air traffic but the unions ...
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