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  #21  
Old 09.08.2018, 13:36
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Re: Failed 4th driving test - need to wait 2 years

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...me driving 58 instead of 50.
Now tell me that you have never exceeded 50 km/h in town.
You must have been very badly prepared for the situation. The test has nothing to do with how good/experienced a driver you are. Your role in this theatre is "little girl learns how to drive a car for the first time and shows that she can follow all the rules to the dot on the i". 58 instead of 50 is not that, therefore you flunk.

What did you do in all those (expensive) 50 hours of instructions?
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  #22  
Old 09.08.2018, 13:43
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Re: Failed 4th driving test - need to wait 2 years

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The thing is, not only do you need to be a good driver, you need to follow the rules. Making one mistake is one thing, but you're making too many.

Are you sure you are a good driver?
I definitely don't think that I am. But looking around I don't think that many people driving the Swiss roads are better drivers than me.

I can also understand such a big concern from forum members about having such person as myself on the road.

However the original questions I asked are a bit different.
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  #23  
Old 09.08.2018, 13:46
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Re: Failed 4th driving test - need to wait 2 years

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I definitely don't think that I am. But looking around I don't think that many people driving the Swiss roads are better drivers than me.

I can also understand such a big concern from forum members about having such person as myself on the road.

However the original questions I asked are a bit different.
You never answered the question related to your original question.

To decide on making an appeal or not one has to calculate how big the chances are that the appeal wil be successful, since we do not know why you failed the 4th time we cannot answer your question unless "yeah, might work or perhaps not, who knows" is accepted as a good answer.
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Old 09.08.2018, 13:48
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Re: Failed 4th driving test - need to wait 2 years

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I definitely don't think that I am. But looking around I don't think that many people driving the Swiss roads are better drivers than me.
It's likely you are right - there are some shocking drivers out there. BUT, they knew how to pass a test, and that's the difference.

You asked if you could appeal, sure go ahead but I wouldn't try to use the argument that people on the roads drive worse than you.
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Old 09.08.2018, 13:54
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Re: Failed 4th driving test - need to wait 2 years

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I do become very nervous when I have an expert watching my every move and commenting about me driving 58 instead of 50.
Now tell me that you have never exceeded 50 km/h in town.
Actually, I haven't, somehow I manage to pay attention to the road AND the speed. 58 instead of 50 is almost 20% too fast, so you should notice it if you are paying attention. Do you generally struggle with attention? Then you may need to work on that. I find I can focus better ever since I started meditating regularly.
Also, get a different instructor. I recommend Roger Peng in Zürich, it's like getting lessons from the non-steroid version of Vin Diesel.
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  #26  
Old 09.08.2018, 13:56
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Re: Failed 4th driving test - need to wait 2 years

On appealing:
I understood that the appealing itself is not about the expert's judgement, but rather the fact that I'll have to take 2 years brake from driving.

Hence the question is if anyone's been in this situation before and what has been done.

However I'm also interested to know if anyone's appealed to the expert's judgement: any stories you can share are very welcome.
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  #27  
Old 09.08.2018, 13:58
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Re: Failed 4th driving test - need to wait 2 years

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Most of the time we've been driving on more or less the same routes with my driving instructor. So every time I go with an expert there will be the place I've never been before.
I think that's the point. As soon as someone passes their test, they can drive on all the roads in their country of residence as well as those abroad.

If you're not ready for that and can only drive on roads which you have driven on before then you're not ready.
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  #28  
Old 09.08.2018, 13:59
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Re: Failed 4th driving test - need to wait 2 years

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I definitely don't think that I am. But looking around I don't think that many people driving the Swiss roads are better drivers than me.
Whether other people are good or bad is not a measurement of your driving skills and knowledge.

I do know one person here who failed to pass her test numerous times and was told to go for a psych evaluation. I was never in the car with her so couldn't tell you what her driving was like, but I can tell you she never listened to anyone and always thought she was right.
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  #29  
Old 09.08.2018, 14:04
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Re: Failed 4th driving test - need to wait 2 years

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I always wondered who those idiotic drivers were in the mindless accidents on the Russian dashcam Youtube videos....


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  #30  
Old 09.08.2018, 15:15
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Re: Failed 4th driving test - need to wait 2 years

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I would be curious to know if anything with an engine also includes an electric bike.
Yes and no. There are two categories of e-bikes:

Pedelecs (pedal electric cycles) are cycles that assist the rider’s pedaling effort with an electric motor at a speed of up to 25 km/h;

S-Pedelecs that provide pedal assistance up to a speed of 45 km/h.

Push assistance without pedaling is normally 6 km/h. Note that the speeds quoted above are the limits of assistance from the electric engine, not the absolute speed limit of the bikes; it's possible to go a lot faster than 45 km/h on any electric bike, or indeed on a traditional muscle-powered bike!

In Switzerland, adults (even if banned or excluded from the driving licence test) do not require any form of licence to ride Pedelecs, so may freely ride them. However, they must hold a valid driver's licence to ride an S-Pedelec, even if they keep under 25 km/h. Furthermore, S-Pedelecs must be registered and bear a number plate, so it's usually pretty clear what sort of e-bike you're riding.
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  #31  
Old 09.08.2018, 15:36
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Re: Failed 4th driving test - need to wait 2 years

And if it makes sense to appeal?
Depends against what you want appeal and if that part of the decision is mandated by law or depends on the mood of the authority.

One thing to know is how many learners permit you had, and what is actually written in the decision you want appeal against.

In some cases you might go to the shrink now and get another learner permit. But as said, it depends how money you had and what is written in the decision.
Can you take a picture, anonymize it. If you use MS Paint only use the standard Brush, not the Marker!! or any other brush Best use solid rectangles, or even simpler cutouts (Selection tool, Delete button on Keyboard).
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  #32  
Old 09.08.2018, 15:41
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Re: Failed 4th driving test - need to wait 2 years

From reading this thread, it sounds as if we're all a lot safer without you on the road.
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  #33  
Old 09.08.2018, 16:06
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Re: Failed 4th driving test - need to wait 2 years

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Can you take a picture, anonymize it. If you use MS Paint only use the standard Brush, not the Marker!! or any other brush Best use solid rectangles, or even simpler cutouts (Selection tool, Delete button on Keyboard).
And to think that Microsoft wanted to discontinue Paint. Where would hapless foreigners be without it?!
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  #34  
Old 09.08.2018, 16:12
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Re: Failed 4th driving test - need to wait 2 years

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fine for 58 km/h? really?
I can't add anything more pithy than EdwinNL's response. But seriously, if you're surprised at being fined for breaking the law, you need to recalibrate. I don't know for sure how things are done in Russia, but I do know that (outside of Montreux and Bahnhofstrasse in Zürich), Switzerland is not Russia.

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... did not have a full stop at the stop sign, was going too slow/too fast, did not notice the sign that the lane is for buses only, etc.
There are fines for all of those things, too. You really don't want to know what the penalty for "etc." is.
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Old 09.08.2018, 16:15
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Re: Failed 4th driving test - need to wait 2 years

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On appealing:
I understood that the appealing itself is not about the expert's judgement, but rather the fact that I'll have to take 2 years brake from driving.
Sounds like that part would be a great idea.
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  #36  
Old 09.08.2018, 16:20
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Re: Failed 4th driving test - need to wait 2 years

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fine for 58 km/h? really?
Yes, really. The authorities issue fines for even 1 kph over, after adjusting for possible errors.

Mr Wishes was flashed doing 56 in a 50 a while back. The authorities knocked off 5 kph as a margin of error (pretty standard) and that left him a whopping 1 kph over. He received a 40 CHF fine for that one kph.

Since you'll have some time to read while you're not driving, here's a thread for you to check out:
Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.
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Old 09.08.2018, 16:39
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Re: Failed 4th driving test - need to wait 2 years

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I do become very nervous when I have an expert watching my every move and commenting about me driving 58 instead of 50.
Maybe here's the issue: you cannot handle stressful situations (which driving, unfortunately is sometimes). Maybe the various mistakes are just the consequence and not the cause. Perhaps 9 years ago you were more relaxed?

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Now tell me that you have never exceeded 50 km/h in town.
The question here should be "Would you speed over 50 km/h in town while a policeman is sitting next to you"?
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Old 09.08.2018, 17:14
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Re: Failed 4th driving test - need to wait 2 years

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I do become very nervous when I have an expert watching my every move and commenting about me driving 58 instead of 50.
Now tell me that you have never exceeded 50 km/h in town.



thanks a lot about this, did not know about Germany. guess there might be a full list of such countries then, where I cannot drive. hmmm
No, never exceeded... thats the point of the limit... lot of people do it, but its their life, their fine that they can get.

Stick to the rules, its not that hard, also, dont get nervous...
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Old 09.08.2018, 17:16
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Re: Failed 4th driving test - need to wait 2 years

OP Test No. 4 be like...

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Old 09.08.2018, 17:26
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Re: Failed 4th driving test - need to wait 2 years

I'm sorry, it's rotten and you kept your humour (well at least the first post was entertaining).
Yes, I know my mother had to do the "Idiotentest" ages ago. No idea if she ever appealed or not.

Rolling over a stop or using the buslane is a clear no-no. So nothing to appeal about.

If the speedometer in the car showed 58 you were actually faster than that. And yep, that is pretty bad (58 already). When they changed from 60 to 50 I was constantly caught with 62 (which would have been okay before). Even though I claimed we did not vote about that and I was right - I had to pay the fines.
However, I hope you did not say something like "in Russia ...." LOL.

It's logical that you got more and more tense at each test. The trick is to drive, drive, drive and get routine. Which you can't do now because they don't let you practise. On the other hand: You seriously had 50 lessons before the fist test?
You can still practice. On a bicycle. The rules are the same. Okay, the speed-rules will be hard to break but if you roll over a stop you might end up in hospital. Could be very educational.
I'm serious about practicing the roads and rules on a bicycle though.

When my ex had to change to a Swiss license, I ushered him around the worst places in Zurich. Manessplatz I think was a good one: About 5 roads and all of them have "Rechtsvortritt" - what do you call that in English? - and you still need to get accross it in reasonable time or you block the traffic.


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And if it makes sense to appeal?
Depends against what you want appeal ........
This is EF, mate. The appeal will be to remove any STOP crossings, increase the speed limit (I'm all for that) and open up the bus-lanes or give every car a taxi-sign.

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..... The question here should be "Would you speed over 50 km/h in town while a policeman is sitting next to you"?
She would as the exam-expert is worse than police. Latter only gives you a fine.
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