Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Transportation/driving  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 31.08.2018, 17:07
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,614
Groaned at 2,593 Times in 1,850 Posts
Thanked 39,707 Times in 18,720 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

Quote:
Just one thing to consider, do the smaller-engined FWD cars on your list develo;p enough power for your requirements? I don't know how far you plan to drive or how often, but I'd get fairly hacked off fairly quickly with a 125 PS (could be more, depending on model) 1.4L engine.
Our Panda is true 4WD (2WD/4WD selectable with a lever), but only 1.1L/50PS!

Ok, it also only weighs 700kg!

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 31.08.2018, 17:08
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 13,924
Groaned at 1,346 Times in 898 Posts
Thanked 20,873 Times in 7,981 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

Quote:
Essentially, you're looking at two marques (Audi=VW and BMW), both of which are fine car manufacturers. None of the models you list are 4WD. Just one thing to consider, do the smaller-engined FWD cars on your list develo;p enough power for your requirements? I don't know how far you plan to drive or how often, but I'd get fairly hacked off fairly quickly with a 125 PS (could be more, depending on model) 1.4L engine.
The VAG 1.4/5 TFSI's have 150hp and I think that is plenty of grunt for anything not towing something, plus they have fantastic economy due to being able to disable 2 cyclinders when cruising. Lower tax is always nice too.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 31.08.2018, 17:52
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 21,376
Groaned at 461 Times in 352 Posts
Thanked 23,091 Times in 11,824 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

The company I worked for paid for a winter driving course the mainly consisted of getting into skids & controlling the car. Far more useful than 4x4 as you have no greater control going downhill & potentially going over a drop.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 31.08.2018, 17:55
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

Quote:
Exactly - we love our Forester too- a) we have a brilliant Subaru garage here, and b) you know you will always be able to sell a good Subaru or part exchange, due to reputation. Nothing to do with our age

Mind you, my little runner with good snow tyres is brilliant- live at 950m and my little Toyota Yaris never lets me down.

Doesn't the Forester need to have the engine pulled out around 100k km to have the timing belt/chain changed, i know it couldn't be done in situ in the older models this may have changed, but with a boxer engine.....
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 31.08.2018, 17:58
JagWaugh's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eglisau
Posts: 7,248
Groaned at 46 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 14,131 Times in 5,506 Posts
JagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

Quote:
View Post
The company I worked for paid for a winter driving course the mainly consisted of getting into skids & controlling the car. Far more useful than 4x4 as you have no greater control going downhill & potentially going over a drop.
Skidschool is always money well spent.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank JagWaugh for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 31.08.2018, 18:03
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

Quote:
View Post
Our Panda is true 4WD (2WD/4WD selectable with a lever), but only 1.1L/50PS!

Ok, it also only weighs 700kg!

Tom
I'd probably get hacked off with your Panda pretty quickly (if I could fit into it), but then again, I'd probably forgive it, as it has two gear levers.

Quote:
View Post
The VAG 1.4/5 TFSI's have 150hp and I think that is plenty of grunt for anything not towing something, plus they have fantastic economy due to being able to disable 2 cyclinders when cruising. Lower tax is always nice too.
Power/engine size isn't an issue tax-wise where I live. Fortunately.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 31.08.2018, 18:27
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 8,761
Groaned at 322 Times in 246 Posts
Thanked 20,108 Times in 7,025 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

Quote:
View Post
The VAG 1.4/5 TFSI's have 150hp and I think that is plenty of grunt for anything not towing something, plus they have fantastic economy due to being able to disable 2 cyclinders when cruising. Lower tax is always nice too.
just try to avoid the EA111 engine.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 31.08.2018, 18:29
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

It's mostly been said, but I'll add my two pennorth anyway.

Overall amount of grip is defined first by the tyres, then by the abs/traction control systems. 4wd has surprising little to do with it. Most snow-related accidents are caused via loss of braking ability, so 4wd is not really a safety issue at all.

What it does bring is better traction on uphill roads, and it can help with holding a more precise line, particularly round steep uphill bends (but this is really only an issue for 'enthusiastic' driving).

I've chosen 4wd cars for the last twenty years, but for a while my wife had a fwd one and didn't like driving it up the road to Engelberg when it was slippy. It felt more vague and less controlled (she said) and when it was replaced she went for a 4wd one instead, and is much happier with it (Peugeot 206cc to Audi TT roadster).

One other factor that's often overlooked is ground clearance. This past winter I twice managed to get stuck just outside our house, before I'd managed to find the Landover I wanted. That, of course, is in another league entirely, so not really relevant here.

So in summary, based on my own experience, there's no reason whatsoever to not go for 4wd, and it will definitely give more confidence, but it's not a magic bullet, so don't expect miracles.

Last edited by Guest; 31.08.2018 at 19:55.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 31.08.2018, 20:40
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

Quote:
... Much happier with it (peugeot 206cc to audi tt roadster).
Shock Result: Driver Prefers Sporty Quattro Cabriolet to French Sh*tbox
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 31.08.2018, 22:42
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,614
Groaned at 2,593 Times in 1,850 Posts
Thanked 39,707 Times in 18,720 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

Quote:
I'd probably forgive it, as it has two gear levers.
Yep, that's fun. Didn't understand it at first that you have to be rolling to change from 2WD/4WD and vice-versa.

But first in a Panda 4x4 will pull your Landrover out of a ditch!

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01.09.2018, 07:38
RTN RTN is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Uetikon am See
Posts: 1,482
Groaned at 13 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 1,691 Times in 757 Posts
RTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond reputeRTN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

4WD is a no brainer, in days of old the problem with them was extra fuel consumption but nowadays there is not much difference,


Given how budget conscience you are , here is the answer to your motoring dream, https://www.englishforum.ch/items-sa...0-uetikon.html

It had the major service last week including transmission oil change so good to go, if we kept it I would take it to Germany for servicing as local Merc garages are a bit expensive here,
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01.09.2018, 08:25
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 13,924
Groaned at 1,346 Times in 898 Posts
Thanked 20,873 Times in 7,981 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

Quote:
View Post
just try to avoid the EA111 engine.
That is 1.2 litre, so not even what I was considering.

Quote:
Shock Result: Driver Prefers Sporty Quattro Cabriolet to French Sh*tbox


Quote:
View Post
4WD is a no brainer, in days of old the problem with them was extra fuel consumption but nowadays there is not much difference,

Given how budget conscience you are , here is the answer to your motoring dream, https://www.englishforum.ch/items-sa...0-uetikon.html

It had the major service last week including transmission oil change so good to go, if we kept it I would take it to Germany for servicing as local Merc garages are a bit expensive here,
Thanks but I'm not after an old heap with moon mileage.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01.09.2018, 08:27
NickGB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Zug
Posts: 1,194
Groaned at 10 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 1,657 Times in 667 Posts
NickGB has a reputation beyond reputeNickGB has a reputation beyond reputeNickGB has a reputation beyond reputeNickGB has a reputation beyond reputeNickGB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

Quote:
View Post
PS There is no way in hell an X5 is more stable on the highway than an M2 because of 4WD or whatever. It rides higher, it's softer and floppier, and has significant lift at high speeds. For everyone driving normally, there is no justification for 4WD. Nobody is slipping tires in normal driving, especially 275/35/19s on the back of the M2 and especially in the grippy tarmac of Switzerland. 4WD can make a difference in the snow for sure, but that's pretty much it.
Well, perhaps it's my perception, but my X5 has 315 section tyres, longer wheelbase, more relaxed steering ratio, less aggressive throttle response, active anti roll bars, sport suspension and weighs 2.5 tons.

My M2 has grippy tyres in perfect conditions (but fall off a cliff at any sign of moisture), short wheelbase, aggressive throttle response, aggressive steering ratio and rock hard suspension.

The net result is a 'perception' of a more secure drive in the X5, although I love the M2, as it's a real occasion everytime I drive, however, if I had the choice for a transcontinental blast it would be the X5 every time.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01.09.2018, 08:54
robBob's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,290
Groaned at 67 Times in 52 Posts
Thanked 3,281 Times in 1,747 Posts
robBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

Quote:
View Post
Our Panda is true 4WD (2WD/4WD selectable with a lever), but only 1.1L/50PS!

Ok, it also only weighs 700kg!

Tom

Is that 700 before filling the tank and sitting in it?
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01.09.2018, 09:28
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

Quote:
View Post
Yep, that's fun. Didn't understand it at first that you have to be rolling to change from 2WD/4WD and vice-versa.

But first in a Panda 4x4 will pull your Landrover out of a ditch!

Tom
I had a LandRover once and I'll never buy one again, for the same reason that I'll never own a Jeep again: I like my cars to work when I want to drive them.

The car I mentioned was a LandCruiser, and nothing will beat them off road. Not even a 700 kg Panda.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 01.09.2018, 09:35
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

Quote:
View Post
Thanks but I'm not after an old heap with moon mileage.
You're most likely missing out on a great car then. 90,000 km and six years on a mid-size Merc engine is nothing, it's literally run in. All the depreciation has been wiped off the price. Look at any 1.4L Audi with even 60,000 km on the clock (as yours would have after a few years' use) and you'll understand why buying a six-year-old Mercedes can be an excellent decision.

Last edited by Guest; 01.09.2018 at 10:44.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #37  
Old 01.09.2018, 09:46
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

Quote:
I had a LandRover once and I'll never buy one again, for the same reason that I'll never own a Jeep again: I like my cars to work when I want to drive them.
What model was it? I looked into general perceptions of reliability before I bought my 2002 defender TD5, and there was nothing of note on that score. There are known 'issues', sure, like the fact that it leaks water in in half a dozen places, but in general it has a reputation as something that you can rely on to work every time.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01.09.2018, 10:12
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

Quote:
What model was it? I looked into general perceptions of reliability before I bought my 2002 defender TD5, and there was nothing of note on that score. There are known 'issues', sure, like the fact that it leaks water in in half a dozen places, but in general it has a reputation as something that you can rely on to work every time.
Discovery 3.

Having said what I did about LandRovers, I would class the Defender differently—that's an extremely capable off road vehicle, albeit with niggles, as you mention. However, if I wanted a great 4WD that looks like it's straight from the 50s and is held together with industrial rivets (and there are many times when that IS what I want!), I would go for a Mercedes G-wagen. The downside there, of course, is the insane price. Even a 20-year-old G can set you back CHF 30k.

There's always the LandCruiser FJs and BJs, of course, but they're even more pricey than the Gs!
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01.09.2018, 10:19
JagWaugh's Avatar
RIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eglisau
Posts: 7,248
Groaned at 46 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 14,131 Times in 5,506 Posts
JagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

Quote:
However, if I wanted a great 4WD that looks like it's straight from the 50s and is held together with industrial rivets (and there are many times when that IS what I want!)
https://www.autoscout24.ch/de/autos/...sort=price_asc
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank JagWaugh for this useful post:
  #40  
Old 01.09.2018, 10:33
jacek's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aargau
Posts: 8,875
Groaned at 125 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 6,610 Times in 3,659 Posts
jacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond reputejacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

I had BMW X3 for a year and normally drive on daily basis RWD BMW 3-series whereas my wife enjoys AWD compact SUV Mazda CX-3. From all these cars, the X3 had shown the best road handling in winter with icy roads in the mountains and Mazda came as my second choice. The RWD 3-series was absolutely useless in winter during icy slippery conditions and pain in the ass to rely on snow chains. It’s just a fast car to commute to work on a highway.

I would get AWD and also would consider FWD. Forget about RWD in snow!
__________________
🎾That's what we do to help English speaking expats community in Switzerland:
General Information About Swiss Tennis
Tennis Lessons Summer Winter Seasons
🎾🎾Our charity organization to help unprivileged kids to realize their dreams:
FMTF Supports Tennis For Children in Southern Africa
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank jacek for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Petrol vs Diesel car, and other simple questions about cars in CH jamiebae Transportation/driving 28 02.12.2013 12:06
suggestions for cable cars/mountain railways trips quark Travel/day trips/free time 2 15.08.2011 12:37
Switzerland Vs UK ( Tier 1 General permit Vs Restricted B permit) indianWoman Permits/visas/government 9 17.07.2011 15:56
ski trips from Nyon? MysteryMachine Travel/day trips/free time 4 13.02.2011 21:19
Switzerland Vs UK ( Tier 1 General permit Vs Restricted B permit) indianWoman Leaving Switzerland 7 09.10.2010 23:06


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:22.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0