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Old 31.08.2018, 17:07
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Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

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Just one thing to consider, do the smaller-engined FWD cars on your list develo;p enough power for your requirements? I don't know how far you plan to drive or how often, but I'd get fairly hacked off fairly quickly with a 125 PS (could be more, depending on model) 1.4L engine.
Our Panda is true 4WD (2WD/4WD selectable with a lever), but only 1.1L/50PS!

Ok, it also only weighs 700kg!

Tom
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Old 31.08.2018, 17:08
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Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

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Essentially, you're looking at two marques (Audi=VW and BMW), both of which are fine car manufacturers. None of the models you list are 4WD. Just one thing to consider, do the smaller-engined FWD cars on your list develo;p enough power for your requirements? I don't know how far you plan to drive or how often, but I'd get fairly hacked off fairly quickly with a 125 PS (could be more, depending on model) 1.4L engine.
The VAG 1.4/5 TFSI's have 150hp and I think that is plenty of grunt for anything not towing something, plus they have fantastic economy due to being able to disable 2 cyclinders when cruising. Lower tax is always nice too.
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Old 31.08.2018, 17:52
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Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

The company I worked for paid for a winter driving course the mainly consisted of getting into skids & controlling the car. Far more useful than 4x4 as you have no greater control going downhill & potentially going over a drop.
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Old 31.08.2018, 17:55
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Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

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Exactly - we love our Forester too- a) we have a brilliant Subaru garage here, and b) you know you will always be able to sell a good Subaru or part exchange, due to reputation. Nothing to do with our age

Mind you, my little runner with good snow tyres is brilliant- live at 950m and my little Toyota Yaris never lets me down.

Doesn't the Forester need to have the engine pulled out around 100k km to have the timing belt/chain changed, i know it couldn't be done in situ in the older models this may have changed, but with a boxer engine.....
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Old 31.08.2018, 17:58
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Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

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The company I worked for paid for a winter driving course the mainly consisted of getting into skids & controlling the car. Far more useful than 4x4 as you have no greater control going downhill & potentially going over a drop.
Skidschool is always money well spent.
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Old 31.08.2018, 18:03
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Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

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Our Panda is true 4WD (2WD/4WD selectable with a lever), but only 1.1L/50PS!

Ok, it also only weighs 700kg!

Tom
I'd probably get hacked off with your Panda pretty quickly (if I could fit into it), but then again, I'd probably forgive it, as it has two gear levers.

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The VAG 1.4/5 TFSI's have 150hp and I think that is plenty of grunt for anything not towing something, plus they have fantastic economy due to being able to disable 2 cyclinders when cruising. Lower tax is always nice too.
Power/engine size isn't an issue tax-wise where I live. Fortunately.
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Old 31.08.2018, 18:27
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Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

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The VAG 1.4/5 TFSI's have 150hp and I think that is plenty of grunt for anything not towing something, plus they have fantastic economy due to being able to disable 2 cyclinders when cruising. Lower tax is always nice too.
just try to avoid the EA111 engine.
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Old 31.08.2018, 18:29
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Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

It's mostly been said, but I'll add my two pennorth anyway.

Overall amount of grip is defined first by the tyres, then by the abs/traction control systems. 4wd has surprising little to do with it. Most snow-related accidents are caused via loss of braking ability, so 4wd is not really a safety issue at all.

What it does bring is better traction on uphill roads, and it can help with holding a more precise line, particularly round steep uphill bends (but this is really only an issue for 'enthusiastic' driving).

I've chosen 4wd cars for the last twenty years, but for a while my wife had a fwd one and didn't like driving it up the road to Engelberg when it was slippy. It felt more vague and less controlled (she said) and when it was replaced she went for a 4wd one instead, and is much happier with it (Peugeot 206cc to Audi TT roadster).

One other factor that's often overlooked is ground clearance. This past winter I twice managed to get stuck just outside our house, before I'd managed to find the Landover I wanted. That, of course, is in another league entirely, so not really relevant here.

So in summary, based on my own experience, there's no reason whatsoever to not go for 4wd, and it will definitely give more confidence, but it's not a magic bullet, so don't expect miracles.
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Old 31.08.2018, 20:40
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Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

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... Much happier with it (peugeot 206cc to audi tt roadster).
Shock Result: Driver Prefers Sporty Quattro Cabriolet to French Sh*tbox
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  #30  
Old 31.08.2018, 22:42
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Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

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I'd probably forgive it, as it has two gear levers.
Yep, that's fun. Didn't understand it at first that you have to be rolling to change from 2WD/4WD and vice-versa.

But first in a Panda 4x4 will pull your Landrover out of a ditch!

Tom
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  #31  
Old 01.09.2018, 07:38
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Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

4WD is a no brainer, in days of old the problem with them was extra fuel consumption but nowadays there is not much difference,


Given how budget conscience you are , here is the answer to your motoring dream, https://www.englishforum.ch/items-sa...0-uetikon.html

It had the major service last week including transmission oil change so good to go, if we kept it I would take it to Germany for servicing as local Merc garages are a bit expensive here,
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  #32  
Old 01.09.2018, 08:25
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Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

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just try to avoid the EA111 engine.
That is 1.2 litre, so not even what I was considering.

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Shock Result: Driver Prefers Sporty Quattro Cabriolet to French Sh*tbox


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4WD is a no brainer, in days of old the problem with them was extra fuel consumption but nowadays there is not much difference,

Given how budget conscience you are , here is the answer to your motoring dream, https://www.englishforum.ch/items-sa...0-uetikon.html

It had the major service last week including transmission oil change so good to go, if we kept it I would take it to Germany for servicing as local Merc garages are a bit expensive here,
Thanks but I'm not after an old heap with moon mileage.
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  #33  
Old 01.09.2018, 08:27
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Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

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PS There is no way in hell an X5 is more stable on the highway than an M2 because of 4WD or whatever. It rides higher, it's softer and floppier, and has significant lift at high speeds. For everyone driving normally, there is no justification for 4WD. Nobody is slipping tires in normal driving, especially 275/35/19s on the back of the M2 and especially in the grippy tarmac of Switzerland. 4WD can make a difference in the snow for sure, but that's pretty much it.
Well, perhaps it's my perception, but my X5 has 315 section tyres, longer wheelbase, more relaxed steering ratio, less aggressive throttle response, active anti roll bars, sport suspension and weighs 2.5 tons.

My M2 has grippy tyres in perfect conditions (but fall off a cliff at any sign of moisture), short wheelbase, aggressive throttle response, aggressive steering ratio and rock hard suspension.

The net result is a 'perception' of a more secure drive in the X5, although I love the M2, as it's a real occasion everytime I drive, however, if I had the choice for a transcontinental blast it would be the X5 every time.
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Old 01.09.2018, 08:54
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Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

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Our Panda is true 4WD (2WD/4WD selectable with a lever), but only 1.1L/50PS!

Ok, it also only weighs 700kg!

Tom

Is that 700 before filling the tank and sitting in it?
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  #35  
Old 01.09.2018, 09:28
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Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

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Yep, that's fun. Didn't understand it at first that you have to be rolling to change from 2WD/4WD and vice-versa.

But first in a Panda 4x4 will pull your Landrover out of a ditch!

Tom
I had a LandRover once and I'll never buy one again, for the same reason that I'll never own a Jeep again: I like my cars to work when I want to drive them.

The car I mentioned was a LandCruiser, and nothing will beat them off road. Not even a 700 kg Panda.
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Old 01.09.2018, 09:35
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Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

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Thanks but I'm not after an old heap with moon mileage.
You're most likely missing out on a great car then. 90,000 km and six years on a mid-size Merc engine is nothing, it's literally run in. All the depreciation has been wiped off the price. Look at any 1.4L Audi with even 60,000 km on the clock (as yours would have after a few years' use) and you'll understand why buying a six-year-old Mercedes can be an excellent decision.

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Old 01.09.2018, 09:46
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Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

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I had a LandRover once and I'll never buy one again, for the same reason that I'll never own a Jeep again: I like my cars to work when I want to drive them.
What model was it? I looked into general perceptions of reliability before I bought my 2002 defender TD5, and there was nothing of note on that score. There are known 'issues', sure, like the fact that it leaks water in in half a dozen places, but in general it has a reputation as something that you can rely on to work every time.
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Old 01.09.2018, 10:12
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Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

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What model was it? I looked into general perceptions of reliability before I bought my 2002 defender TD5, and there was nothing of note on that score. There are known 'issues', sure, like the fact that it leaks water in in half a dozen places, but in general it has a reputation as something that you can rely on to work every time.
Discovery 3.

Having said what I did about LandRovers, I would class the Defender differently—that's an extremely capable off road vehicle, albeit with niggles, as you mention. However, if I wanted a great 4WD that looks like it's straight from the 50s and is held together with industrial rivets (and there are many times when that IS what I want!), I would go for a Mercedes G-wagen. The downside there, of course, is the insane price. Even a 20-year-old G can set you back CHF 30k.

There's always the LandCruiser FJs and BJs, of course, but they're even more pricey than the Gs!
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Old 01.09.2018, 10:19
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Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

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However, if I wanted a great 4WD that looks like it's straight from the 50s and is held together with industrial rivets (and there are many times when that IS what I want!)
https://www.autoscout24.ch/de/autos/...sort=price_asc
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Old 01.09.2018, 10:33
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Re: FWD vs 4WD cars for general use and ski trips...

I had BMW X3 for a year and normally drive on daily basis RWD BMW 3-series whereas my wife enjoys AWD compact SUV Mazda CX-3. From all these cars, the X3 had shown the best road handling in winter with icy roads in the mountains and Mazda came as my second choice. The RWD 3-series was absolutely useless in winter during icy slippery conditions and pain in the ass to rely on snow chains. It’s just a fast car to commute to work on a highway.

I would get AWD and also would consider FWD. Forget about RWD in snow!
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