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  #21  
Old 31.12.2018, 06:30
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Re: Driver's license (automatic transmission) change 2.2019

My car only has two gears - forward and reverse. Itís got simulated engine braking, but no clutch. Is it an automatic or a manual?
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  #22  
Old 31.12.2018, 08:15
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Re: Driver's license (automatic transmission) change 2.2019

interesting I have never heard of this restriction.
however now most vehicles come with some sort of "automatic" because its more efficient and safer and higher performance... even super sport vehicles are faster with modern "automatic" transmissions

note automatic and computer controlled manual transmissions both shift automatically but their mechanical principles are very different.



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As some of you may know, there is currently a restriction that if you did your driving test on an automatic transmission car, you had this restriction on your driver's license. It was illegal to drive a manual car. This restriction impacts about 10% of people driving (my guess a bit higher in the expat community).

As of February 2019, you will be able to drive a manual car without having to take another test.

The 24Heures article also mentioned that about 25% of cars in CH are automatic while the TCS said that about 45% of new cars being registered are now automatic.
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  #23  
Old 31.12.2018, 08:42
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Re: Driver's license (automatic transmission) change 2.2019

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Automatic: no engine braking, so more complicated to drive.

Tom
You got that the wrong way around. Manual - engine braking - so more complicated to drive. Far easier just to use the brake.

The question I was addressing is whether it is as difficult (or as easy) to move from automatic to manual as it is from manual to automatic. From manual to automatic the difficulty is using the brakes going downhill, generally heavier braking, slightly less responsive acceleration and preventing your left foot from doing anything.

From automatic to manual, having to use your left foot for something and coordinating that movement with a hand movement to change gear, and learning to coordinating brakes with engine braking.

Seems self-evident to me that automatic to manual will be more difficult. Although I'm pretty sure anyone who's been driving for a while will be able to make the switch - after a few embarrassing stalling incidents. I drive both manual and automatics regularly and automatics are, almost by definition, easier to drive - but manuals are more fun!

Meanwhile, back on topic - will everyone now switch to taking their tests in an automtic, so they don't have to worry about stalling or making smooth gear changes?
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  #24  
Old 31.12.2018, 09:16
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Re: Driver's license (automatic transmission) change 2.2019

Personally I had no trouble with the switch over.

Our high school had an VW Beatle just so we could practice on a manual in driver ed. But I only got to drive it twice.

So basically, I mostly gained my experience on my 2nd car a Chevy pickup with a column shift (3 on the tree).
But it was just a matter of a few minutes.

Maybe it was no problem cause I already had a Kawasaki.

Or that the shift was located in the same place as my 1st car, a 383 Fury automatic.

However, as I recall, the biggest problem with many is that they seem to burn out the clutch.

In any case, God gave us two feet. Its not right that we should only use one of em.

Last edited by robBob; 31.12.2018 at 10:19.
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Old 31.12.2018, 09:32
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Re: Driver's license (automatic transmission) change 2.2019

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From automatic to manual, having to use your left foot for something and coordinating that movement with a hand movement to change gear, and learning to coordinating brakes with engine braking.

Seems self-evident to me that automatic to manual will be more difficult.
Yes, of course, for anyone who's never used a manual clutch it's an extra skill to learn. Tom's just being pedantic, as ever, picking on words like 'complicated' and building a side argument based on a particular type of automatic transmission, in the full knowledge that he's 'right' in the very specific cases he's referring to.

These days, though, many/most 'automatic' vehicle transmissions work very differently, and yes, can give a direct physical connection ensuring exactly the same engine braking as a 'manual'.

What this change is really referring to is not the type of transmission, but simply whether a foot-controlled clutch is used to engage and change gear. With electronically-controlled manual transmissions being more and more common, as well as electric cars with no gearchange at all, I can see that the licence restriction will make less sense in the future, but can't help feeling it's a little premature.
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  #26  
Old 31.12.2018, 10:13
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Re: Driver's license (automatic transmission) change 2.2019

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Of course the driving teachers (who are screaming the loudest) have no vested interest in the announcement.
Not to mention rental companies. A pet peeve of a former boss of mine was the increased rental cost of an automatic as she wasnít licenced for a manual. Although that was going back a few years so maybe the charges arenít so different these days.
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  #27  
Old 31.12.2018, 10:24
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Re: Driver's license (automatic transmission) change 2.2019

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Yes, of course, for anyone who's never used a manual clutch it's an extra skill to learn. Tom's just being pedantic, as ever, picking on words like 'complicated' and building a side argument based on a particular type of automatic transmission, in the full knowledge that he's 'right' in the very specific cases he's referring to.

These days, though, many/most 'automatic' vehicle transmissions work very differently, and yes, can give a direct physical connection ensuring exactly the same engine braking as a 'manual'.

What this change is really referring to is not the type of transmission, but simply whether a foot-controlled clutch is used to engage and change gear. With electronically-controlled manual transmissions being more and more common, as well as electric cars with no gearchange at all, I can see that the licence restriction will make less sense in the future, but can't help feeling it's a little premature.

Automatic! Ha!

Try getting through a snow storm in one.

Its for the birds.
Ever hear of rock and roll. Only with a manual!
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  #28  
Old 31.12.2018, 13:24
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Re: Driver's license (automatic transmission) change 2.2019

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Automatic! Ha!

Try getting through a snow storm in one.
Automatic with 4WD works fine.

Tom
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  #29  
Old 31.12.2018, 13:26
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Re: Driver's license (automatic transmission) change 2.2019

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These days, though, many/most 'automatic' vehicle transmissions work very differently.
Most NEW ones.

Most of those on the road work as I described.

Tom
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  #30  
Old 01.01.2019, 05:11
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Re: Driver's license (automatic transmission) change 2.2019

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Automatic with 4WD works fine.

Tom
Mine didn't, that's why I changed to a manual 4wd, we lived in the mountains and had plenty of snow.
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  #31  
Old 01.01.2019, 09:13
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Re: Driver's license (automatic transmission) change 2.2019

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Mine didn't, that's why I changed to a manual 4wd, we lived in the mountains and had plenty of snow.
Odd, we have a forest road to our cabin (only 200m, but pretty steep) and when covered with snow and ice, only the 4wds cut it, and never had a problem with the auto one.

Tom
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  #32  
Old 20.01.2019, 16:55
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Ridiculous, dangerous decision ...

... from the first of february, drivers who have taken their test on an automatic car, who then did not have the right to drive manual gear shift cars- will be allowed to do so and without any 'conversion' lessons beforehand.

Dangerous and with opposition from TCS and other official groups.
Imagine someone who has never driven with gears, especially elderly people and in town centres at peak time, kids going to school, etc - just asking for trouble
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Old 20.01.2019, 17:11
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Re: Driver's license (automatic transmission) change 2.2019

While I agree in principle I recall when my 20-ish nephew came to visit. Asked if he could borrow the car? He swore up and down he had driven a stick shift Ďa few timesí.

He couldnít get it out of the driveway. (Back out of garage while turning 90 degrees up a slope. Then drive forward down the slope and turning 90 degrees into the street.)

I took the keys ... saved the car.
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Old 20.01.2019, 18:32
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Re: Driver's license (automatic transmission) change 2.2019

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While I agree in principle I recall when my 20-ish nephew came to visit. Asked if he could borrow the car? He swore up and down he had driven a stick shift Ďa few timesí.

He couldnít get it out of the driveway. (Back out of garage while turning 90 degrees up a slope. Then drive forward down the slope and turning 90 degrees into the street.)

I took the keys ... saved the car.
Well, his performance might not have been much better if the car was an automatic. Of much more importance is "road sense" which is independent of the power transmission technology for a specific model of car. The gear / clutch co-ordination is a minor thing in comparison, and is anyway soon learned (after a bit of noisy gear crunching).
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  #35  
Old 20.01.2019, 19:16
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Re: Driver's license (automatic transmission) change 2.2019

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Worst was that when I did that with a rental in the US, it would speed up!

Tom
Yep- we had a Pontiac once from Phoenix, and it was fine on the flat- as soon as we got into the Rockies- it was a nightmare- speeding up and no engine breaking going downhill- had to be on the brakes constantly
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Old 20.01.2019, 20:01
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Re: Ridiculous, dangerous decision ...

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... from the first of february, drivers who have taken their test on an automatic car, who then did not have the right to drive manual gear shift cars- will be allowed to do so and without any 'conversion' lessons beforehand.

Dangerous and with opposition from TCS and other official groups.
Imagine someone who has never driven with gears, especially elderly people and in town centres at peak time, kids going to school, etc - just asking for trouble



I remember some American friends of mine giving some "tips" to their friends driving manuals in Europe. One was that you can use the "emergency brake" to stop yourself rolling back on hills. This was a revelation to them. Unnecessary on some cars now with auto parking brakes.


Many newish automatics I've driven have automatic downchanging for engine braking but EVERY automatic car I've ever driven has been able to utilise engine braking by driver selection of a lower gear, just not to the same extent as a manual.


My brother slams his foot down on the floor and knocks his coffee over when he first switches to an auto. My dad thinks that first gear is "drive" when he switches from auto to manual.
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  #37  
Old 20.01.2019, 20:08
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Re: Driver's license (automatic transmission) change 2.2019

That was some years back - 1999 - there was no way of going down gears independently- only brakes!

Our current automatic Subaru has 8 gears, on paddles on driving wheel, or gear shaft.

I've personally never had an automatic- just love driving and being in charge of the gears on our steep hills and tight bends.

So for the birds - well, for some

Last edited by Odile; 20.01.2019 at 20:31.
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  #38  
Old 20.01.2019, 20:28
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Re: Driver's license (automatic transmission) change 2.2019

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Automatic! Ha!

Its for the birds.
It is.

Stick shift....Ughhhhh.
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Old 20.01.2019, 20:45
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Re: Driver's license (automatic transmission) change 2.2019

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Automatic! Ha!

Its for the birds.
Not for this one it isnít! Give me a manual any day of the week.
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  #40  
Old 20.01.2019, 21:10
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Re: Driver's license (automatic transmission) change 2.2019

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Not for this one it isnít! Give me a manual any day of the week.
+1 for that.

Got used to an automatic eventually but prefer a manual. Now I can switch to flappy-paddles-almost-manual in our current car if I want to but itís just not the same as using a gear stick.
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