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Old 06.02.2019, 14:24
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Buying a Company Car as a private person

Hello dear expats,

I am in the process of buying a car at about 35K. It is a car registered to a company (GmbH) and is on a lease. The owner of the car is also the owner of the company and he will pay of the lease when we sign the contract. So here come my questions:

1. Since the car is registered to his company, when he is going to sell it to me and I buy it, is there a VAT involved? Or is it just like buying from a private person. I don't want get an unpleasant suprise and have to pay VAT on top.

2. Should the name of the company or the name of the owner be on the contract? Or both?

3. We agreed that I transfer him 5K when we sign, so he can be sure that I want to buy because he has to pay about 25K to pay of the lease, which I find OK. When should I transfer him the rest which is 30K? After he cancels his grey card? We want to do it all by Banktransfer so we have proof of transaction.

4. Any other pointers are welcome

Thanks in advance
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Old 06.02.2019, 14:39
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Re: Buying a Company Car as a private person

1) For you, private person, the price he charges you will include VAT and then he will be responsible for this.


2) The name who ever appears on registration doc, from whom are you buying the car from.


3) Pay into an escrow account if you want to be 100% sure, depends if you trust him or not really


4) Until he pays the lease you CANNOT change the grey card, be warned ! The car is currently owned by the lease company.
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Old 06.02.2019, 14:51
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Re: Buying a Company Car as a private person

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1) For you, private person, the price he charges you will include VAT and then he will be responsible for this.


2) The name who ever appears on registration doc, from whom are you buying the car from.


3) Pay into an escrow account if you want to be 100% sure, depends if you trust him or not really


4) Until he pays the lease you CANNOT change the grey card, be warned ! The car is currently owned by the lease company.
Hello,

thanks for the answer. Can you elaborate on point 1? What do you mean by "..will include VAT and he will be responsible for this"?

Should the contract mention that VAT is included in the Price? Mind you he is not selling cars as a profession, he is in the housebuilding business, if it makes any difference.
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Old 06.02.2019, 14:52
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Re: Buying a Company Car as a private person

Why not go for a regular lease and lease from this guy? I don't understand this. If you have so many question marks then better not do it.
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Old 06.02.2019, 15:08
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Re: Buying a Company Car as a private person

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Why not go for a regular lease and lease from this guy? I don't understand this. If you have so many question marks then better not do it.
I am not interested in a lease, so not an option. Thanks
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Old 06.02.2019, 15:19
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Re: Buying a Company Car as a private person

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Hello,

thanks for the answer. Can you elaborate on point 1? What do you mean by "..will include VAT and he will be responsible for this"?

Should the contract mention that VAT is included in the Price? Mind you he is not selling cars as a profession, he is in the housebuilding business, if it makes any difference.

How exactly could you be responsible for VAT payment if you are not even registered with the VAT authorities.


When you buy your pork chop in the Coop, do you pay VAT to somebody else ? No, it is included in the price and the Coop pay VAT as the last registered VAT entity.



Buying a car is excatly the same
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Old 06.02.2019, 15:21
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Re: Buying a Company Car as a private person

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Should the contract mention that VAT is included in the Price?
If the seller has to pay VAT or not is not the buyers problem.
This is regardless if VAT is mentioned on the invoice or not.
VAT on the invoice is only a topic if you have yourself a business.

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2) The name who ever appears on registration doc, from whom are you buying the car from.
The name on the registration doc has nothing to do with the owner of the car. Nor does it mean that the person is allowed to sell the car.

A friend had a company leased car. He was a normal employee and he was named on the registration doc. The person on the registration doc is the person which has to pay the road tax, has to look that the car is only used by person with a proper license, the car is roadworthy when used on the roads, that the car is insured, and this person also has to pay certain fines, specially when no paid by the actual driver.
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Old 06.02.2019, 15:59
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Re: Buying a Company Car as a private person

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A friend had a company leased car. He was a normal employee and he was named on the registration doc. The person on the registration doc is the person which has to pay the road tax, has to look that the car is only used by person with a proper license, the car is roadworthy when used on the roads, that the car is insured, and this person also has to pay certain fines, specially when no paid by the actual driver.

But the company can also be on the registration docs? Never had my name on the company car docs.
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Old 06.02.2019, 16:07
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Re: Buying a Company Car as a private person

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4) Until he pays the lease you CANNOT change the grey card, be warned ! The car is currently owned by the lease company.
+1. This would be my main concern. He cannot sell a car that he doesn't own.

I understand that he probably needs the money to pay off his lease and buy the car from the lease company, but does it have to be your money? You are giving him a credit, for which he has no securities. Do you trust him enough to do that?
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Old 06.02.2019, 16:23
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Re: Buying a Company Car as a private person

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If the seller has to pay VAT or not is not the buyers problem.
This is regardless if VAT is mentioned on the invoice or not.
VAT on the invoice is only a topic if you have yourself a business.


The name on the registration doc has nothing to do with the owner of the car. Nor does it mean that the person is allowed to sell the car.

A friend had a company leased car. He was a normal employee and he was named on the registration doc. The person on the registration doc is the person which has to pay the road tax, has to look that the car is only used by person with a proper license, the car is roadworthy when used on the roads, that the car is insured, and this person also has to pay certain fines, specially when no paid by the actual driver.

I know you have far more experience of this, but i was always under the impression that who ever's name was on the registration dox were considered the owner of the vehicle.


If my name is on a grey card for a car belonging to somebody else, this surely opens up a whole field for fraudulent activities.



Whichever name is on the document, doesn't this have to be identical with the insurance policy too ?
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Old 06.02.2019, 16:28
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Re: Buying a Company Car as a private person

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But the company can also be on the registration docs? Never had my name on the company car docs.
Not sure. But I think it is possible to have somehow both. As far as I remember he could not keep the plates.

But the things remains: The person on the gray card does not have to be the legal owner. In case of a lease this particular true as the car belongs to the leasing company. That is the reason for code 178 on the gray card.

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He cannot sell a car that he doesn't own.that?
I think you can actually, legally can sell something you do not own.
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Old 06.02.2019, 16:39
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Re: Buying a Company Car as a private person

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I know you have far more experience of this, but i was always under the impression that who ever's name was on the registration dox were considered the owner of the vehicle.
I was once under the same impression. It is a common mistake.

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If my name is on a grey card for a car belonging to somebody else, this surely opens up a whole field for fraudulent activities.
Depends. But once you know and aware that holder and owner might not be the same person that field should becomes pretty small. Regarding sale and ownership a car is like a TV, an Apple, a Book, or a valuable painting.

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Whichever name is on the document, doesn't this have to be identical with the insurance policy too ?
I think that is the case. But you do not have to own the car to insure it andy you even do not need a driving license or be able to drive!

The problem is that the registered holder has a lot of responsibilities. Specially, he has to take care that the car is only used by persons with a proper license and that the car is roadworthy when used on the roads.

If you are far away from where the car is normally stationed you cannot perform this duty prescribed by law.
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Old 06.02.2019, 16:44
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Re: Buying a Company Car as a private person

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The name on the registration doc has nothing to do with the owner of the car. Nor does it mean that the person is allowed to sell the car.

A friend had a company leased car. He was a normal employee and he was named on the registration doc. The person on the registration doc is the person which has to pay the road tax, has to look that the car is only used by person with a proper license, the car is roadworthy when used on the roads, that the car is insured, and this person also has to pay certain fines, specially when no paid by the actual driver.
WOW. Didnt know that. Thanks. So what document is the one that proves ownership of a car? If code 178 is removed from the Registration Papers, am I ok? Which document is the one that will proove in the future that the ownership of the car is mine?
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Old 06.02.2019, 16:45
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Re: Buying a Company Car as a private person

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+1. This would be my main concern. He cannot sell a car that he doesn't own.

I understand that he probably needs the money to pay off his lease and buy the car from the lease company, but does it have to be your money? You are giving him a credit, for which he has no securities. Do you trust him enough to do that?
I will only transfer the first 5000. The rest will be transfered when he has all the paperwork done and deregistered the car. I can understand that because, lets say he pays for the lease and I say...I changed my mind....
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Old 06.02.2019, 16:51
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Re: Buying a Company Car as a private person

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WOW. Didnt know that. Thanks. So what document is the one that proves ownership of a car? If code 178 is removed from the Registration Papers, am I ok? Which document is the one that will proove in the future that the ownership of the car is mine?
None official. A written sales contract can help. A car is like a TV, an apple, a book, or a valuable painting.
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Old 06.02.2019, 17:29
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Re: Buying a Company Car as a private person

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I think that is the case. But you do not have to own the car to insure it andy you even do not need a driving license or be able to drive!



I am well aware that a small credi card sized piece of plastic is of absolutly no use for driving a car, i have driven a lot without one on my person and it's exactly the same as driving with one.


Popular myth, bit like bog flushing after 22.00hrs !!
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Old 07.02.2019, 09:09
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Re: Buying a Company Car as a private person

Why are you paying 35K for a car for which the residual value (after paying off the lease) is 25K?
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Old 07.02.2019, 09:13
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Re: Buying a Company Car as a private person

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Why are you paying 35K for a car for which the residual value (after paying off the lease) is 25K?
Because it is the market price. Actually the cheapest in Autoscout24.ch with those characteristics. The last payment always depends on the initial payment if I am not mistaken...
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Old 07.02.2019, 09:39
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Re: Buying a Company Car as a private person

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I am well aware that a small credi card sized piece of plastic is of absolutly no use for driving a car, i have driven a lot without one on my person and it's exactly the same as driving with one.
He means that you do not need to be a licensed driver to register and insure a vehicle in your name.

Tom
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Old 07.02.2019, 10:23
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Re: Buying a Company Car as a private person

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Because it is the market price. Actually the cheapest in Autoscout24.ch with those characteristics. The last payment always depends on the initial payment if I am not mistaken...
I don't think it works like that.
At least it doesn't seem so from the calculations my leasing company shared with me.
Prepayment/deposit only reduces your monthly payments AFAIK.
Residual value seems to be calculated based on initial value + mileage/years combo.
But there are some other nuances I could be missing; might be wrong.

Market price is what dictates the real world though.
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