Tesla Fan Boy Thread

[atamar]

Any 3 fan person able to give some up-to-date information?
What are your current costs filling up at Tesla's stations?

The Dietikon super charger station is up and running, but we're finding it surprisingly difficult to find actual charging rates. (I've seen a 30 rappen per KWh on Tesla's site, but the presentation is a bit iffy, no idea whether that's today's rate or last year's.)

Reason we're asking: we're still waffling; got a quote of almost 4,000 for installation in our Tiefgarage, which is a bit steep, and are wondering whether we could live with a fairly close by super charger station alone.

I wouldn't mind hearing your costs and experiences with GoFast, either. Not a bad idea to have some competition to Tesla.

[AbFab]

It‘s onwards and upwards:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/02/tesl...y-numbers.html

[AbFab]

	Quote:	atamar
	Any 3 fan person able to give some up-to-date information? What are your current costs filling up at Tesla's stations? The Dietikon super charger station is up and running, but we're finding it surprisingly difficult to find actual charging rates. (I've seen a 30 rappen per KWh on Tesla's site, but the presentation is a bit iffy, no idea whether that's today's rate or last year's.) Reason we're asking: we're still waffling; got a quote of almost 4,000 for installation in our Tiefgarage, which is a bit steep, and are wondering whether we could live with a fairly close by super charger station alone. I wouldn't mind hearing your costs and experiences with GoFast, either. Not a bad idea to have some competition to Tesla.

Tesla quote CHF0.30 see https://www.tesla.com/de_CH/support/supercharging
Never use them myself. Home Tesla wall connector was CHF1800 to install. 16amp 3 phase gives 67kmph charging...

[user137]

So on a slightly offtopic note, I've driven a Renault Zoé 4.0 for a day a week ago. 110HP, 300km range, it's an electric Clio, so to speak. Fairly fun to drive, the power is enough to be quick in the city (up to 60km/h), a bit less on the highways and there's a 135km/h hard limit. 300km's are real consumption as much as I could tell (drove a full day with AC on and in "pedal to the metal mode" for 97km's, battery depleted 90km's of range). 40kWh battery pack.

The cars on demo were lacking a lot that Renault otherwise does. No ACC, no lane departure warning, no dead spot warning, no panorama roof. All you get in the car is Navigation with TomTom and bluetooth for your phone. Not even Android Auto - or an arm rest for the driver.

Can't say for charging experience, but the Renault-compatible ones are supposed to be 40kVA, so full charge should be 1 hour. Te built-in navigation knew where the chargers are.

In the end the car costs 25-35k without the battery (+100CHF/month rental), or 35-45k with the battery purchased. That's awful lot for a Clio. Too bad they don't put this into the estate cars, which are actually useful vehicles for a family.

I really loved the car as far as electric mobility goes, but if I need the bells and whistles I like, and also the battery purchased to make it comparable to a Model3, I'd buy the Model 3 RWD for 52k without thinking twice. Tesla is so much superior in everything in comparison.

[DUTCH]

	Quote:	user137
	I'd buy the Model 3 RWD for 52k without thinking twice. Tesla is so much superior in everything in comparison.

Long Range RWD (75kWh battery, base price 52k) is off the menu. First Standard Range+ RWD (50kWh battery, base price 48k) will be delivered in CH by August.

Like you, I came to the conclusion that other EVs were not really much cheaper than Tesla and whole lot less fun.

[user137]

	Quote:	DUTCH
	Long Range RWD (75kWh battery, base price 52k) is off the menu. First Standard Range+ RWD (50kWh battery, base price 48k) will be delivered in CH by August. Like you, I came to the conclusion that other EVs were not really much cheaper than Tesla and whole lot less fun.

well, I also came to a conclusion that I don't need that much power and I don't want to drop 50k for a car. So ICE again it is hopefully for the last time.

[Phil_MCR]

interested for those that say tesla is much better than the other electric cars, could you elaborate on the key elements where tesla is better (car-wise, not charging network etc.)

	Quote:	Phil_MCR
	interested for those that say tesla is much better than the other electric cars, could you elaborate on the key elements where tesla is better (car-wise, not charging network etc.)

I am not a Tesla fan boy but Tesla probably has the best platform and infrastructure at the moment.

For example, see this comparison

How does this work?

[user137]

	Quote:	Phil_MCR
	interested for those that say tesla is much better than the other electric cars, could you elaborate on the key elements where tesla is better (car-wise, not charging network etc.)

- better acceleration and top speed by far
- proper sportscar handling (if pushed)
- looks of an actual car instead of some earth-hugger UFO
- better interior design, fine materials wherever you touch
- a "frunk" you can use
- LED lights vs something miserable on the Zoé
- always-connected via e-SIM
- autopilot goodies, or even self-driving (if ever reached)
- useful boot space (I wish the Americans made estate cars, though)
- faster charging at superchargers
- existing network of superchargers
- resale value probably higher as Tesla has better experience in battery tech than anyone else

[DUTCH]

	Quote:	user137
	- better acceleration and top speed by far - proper sportscar handling (if pushed) - looks of an actual car instead of some earth-hugger UFO - better interior design, fine materials wherever you touch - a "frunk" you can use - LED lights vs something miserable on the Zoé - always-connected via e-SIM - autopilot goodies, or even self-driving (if ever reached) - useful boot space (I wish the Americans made estate cars, though) - faster charging at superchargers - existing network of superchargers - resale value probably higher as Tesla has better experience in battery tech than anyone else

This. And I would add
- Car software (think Apple iOS vs Nokia, as rough comparison)
- Battery management and hence higher efficiency for each kWh

Still miserable build quality, though, and that's not something I can simply dismiss as "just one little thing". It's a real shame that Tesla can't shake off the American habit of churning out mass-produced cars without top-notch quality control.

As always, I'd much rather drive a superbly built car with good-to-great performance than one that masks its deficiencies with blingy iOS-like software bells and whistles. Something like the appallingly-named Audi e-tron (did Audi even think of calling their French colleagues to ask how that name would fly over there?!), or the new Merc SUV. But you have to pay for that quality...

	Quote:
	Still miserable build quality, though, and that's not something I can simply dismiss as "just one little thing". It's a real shame that Tesla can't shake off the American habit of churning out mass-produced cars without top-notch quality control. As always, I'd much rather drive a superbly built car with good-to-great performance than one that masks its deficiencies with blingy iOS-like software bells and whistles. Something like the appallingly-named Audi e-tron (did Audi even think of calling their French colleagues to ask how that name would fly over there?!), or the new Merc SUV. But you have to pay for that quality...

Miserable is an incredibly harsh take on it. It's not S-Class luxury, but it's not some Dacia plastic skip either.

[AbFab]

	Quote:
	Still miserable build quality, though, and that's not something I can simply dismiss as "just one little thing". It's a real shame that Tesla can't shake off the American habit of churning out mass-produced cars without top-notch quality control. As always, I'd much rather drive a superbly built car with good-to-great performance than one that masks its deficiencies with blingy iOS-like software bells and whistles. Something like the appallingly-named Audi e-tron (did Audi even think of calling their French colleagues to ask how that name would fly over there?!), or the new Merc SUV. But you have to pay for that quality...

I don‘t know where this „Still miserable build quality“ is coming from. Do you own a Model 3 and have seen this??

[AbFab]

...and then there‘s safety:

How does this work?

[user137]

	Quote:
	Still miserable build quality, though, and that's not something I can simply dismiss as "just one little thing". It's a real shame that Tesla can't shake off the American habit of churning out mass-produced cars without top-notch quality control. As always, I'd much rather drive a superbly built car with good-to-great performance than one that masks its deficiencies with blingy iOS-like software bells and whistles. Something like the appallingly-named Audi e-tron (did Audi even think of calling their French colleagues to ask how that name would fly over there?!), or the new Merc SUV. But you have to pay for that quality...

apart from the fact that you seem to be just echoing certain forum entries and are apparently not an owner of a Model 3, the e-tron can't really be bought (Audi does not have the capacity to deliver enough batteries, surprise-surprise), neither is the Merc a 1:1 comparison.

Daimler has better materials and finish for sure. But there's a reason they lost almost every single segment against Tesla in the last 3 years. EV's are superior in acceleration, handling and comfort, even if the materials used are only 75% and not 95% like in an S-Class.

[Phil_MCR]

	Quote:	user137
	- better acceleration and top speed by far - proper sportscar handling (if pushed) - looks of an actual car instead of some earth-hugger UFO - better interior design, fine materials wherever you touch - a "frunk" you can use - LED lights vs something miserable on the Zoé - always-connected via e-SIM - autopilot goodies, or even self-driving (if ever reached) - useful boot space (I wish the Americans made estate cars, though) - faster charging at superchargers - existing network of superchargers - resale value probably higher as Tesla has better experience in battery tech than anyone else

thanks. interesting you mention interiors as i often heard the criticism of tesla interiors compared to similarly priced ICE cars.

[user137]

	Quote:	Phil_MCR
	thanks. interesting you mention interiors as i often heard the criticism of tesla interiors compared to similarly priced ICE cars.

I've compared it to the Renault Zoé I've driven. That one is cheaper, but also feels cheap (not badly assembled, just cheap).

The 100k+ CHF Model S/X's are not a match in interior finish to similarly priced ICE Mercs and BMWs.

However, the Model3 can be had for 55k now and for that amount of money you don't really get anything too luxurious in the premium German ICE market either.

[rainer_d]

The EQC won't hit dealers until the end of the year, AFAIK.

You can "reserve" one now, but they're not expected to ship in volume until Q2 2020.
IIRC.

ABM have barely enough batteries for all the Hybrids they want to release.
Turns out, good EV batteries aren't a commodity and you can't just put out a bid and then order from the lowest bidder.

It's a shame the Model Y won't be available until 2021 in the earliest.
If Tesla could make enough of them, it would kill a lot of traditional ICE sales in the "Compact SUV" segment (like X3, GLC).
From what I have heard, it still has a similar effect right now, because most traditional ICE-car sales are down. People have developed a "wait and see" attitude.

The problem with Tesla is really the giant amount of debt and losses they have accumulated.
Long-term, I cannot imagine this to be sustainable, unless a miracle happens.
Maybe FCA picks them up (Tesla is already selling their CO2-credits to them), maybe MB does a reverse under the new boss (they had a share in Tesla but sold it, "We're the only company who has made a profit on EV", Dr. Zetsche once gloated) or AAPL picks them up (and relegates Musk to play with his rockets). In any case, somebody has to straighten them up and foot the bill - because for all I know they're producing some damn fine cars.

In other news, BMW has basically fired the CEO. Supposedly, the lack of vision regarding BEVs is one reason. BMW is way late in this game. Their roadmap is basically Hybrid cars for the next few years, which is absolutely ridiculous IMO.

[DUTCH]

	Quote:
	Still miserable build quality....

Actually its not, nowadays, for Tesla Model 3 built this year. Give it a try 22Y to have a first hand view.



I picked mine up few weeks back, there are no problems on finish, gaps and paint. Interiors are plush and feels solid. I compare this to the Porsche or BMW that I have known closely. Price/Quality comparison is very good.


But all said, EVs are still costlier than ICE cars on total cost of ownership. Nevertheless, I don't think I will ever buy another ICE again.

	Quote:	DUTCH
	Actually its not, nowadays, for Tesla Model 3 built this year. Give it a try 22Y to have a first hand view. I picked mine up few weeks back, there are no problems on finish, gaps and paint. Interiors are plush and feels solid. I compare this to the Porsche or BMW that I have known closely. Price/Quality comparison is very good. But all said, EVs are still costlier than ICE cars on total cost of ownership. Nevertheless, I don't think I will ever buy another ICE again.

You should read the article about "Auslieferungschaos" at Tesla in Autobild from last week. Obviously, not all Tesla clients agree with you.