Tesla Fan Boy Thread

[BasP72]

I would say there is a lot of hidden engineering in an EV determining cost, mainly to do with battery pack. Battery management (temp control, charging control) and motor management are very involved, much more tech behind it than with an ICE. All those volts and amps from the supercharger all need to be equally divided between the thousand of low voltage low amp cells. It needs to keep track of what every cell is doing.... squirting some fuel in a 19th century style engine is much simpler...

[FCBarca]

Thanks for that, EV is my next vehicle - just trying to make an informed decision among the ever expanding landscape of options

[yacek]

So, canton Vaud wants to ban and eradicate all residential electric heating by 2030 or so deeming it an inappropriate use of the scare electricity.

I've seen some calculations showing that generating electricity from gas or petrol, transmitting it, charging and discharging again and turning an electric motor is still more efficient that burning the fuel directly in a car engine. Is it this what makes the e-cars more politically palatable here, or is it the lack of emissions from the tail pipe?

	Quote:	yacek
	So, canton Vaud wants to ban and eradicate all residential electric heating by 2030 or so deeming it an inappropriate use of the scare electricity. I've seen some calculations showing that generating electricity from gas or petrol, transmitting it, charging and discharging again and turning an electric motor is still more efficient that burning the fuel directly in a car engine. Is it this what makes the e-cars more politically palatable here, or is it the lack of emissions from the tail pipe?

Bit of both. Electric motors are inherently very efficient plus regeneration from braking also brings system efficiency up. Plus most electricity here is from Nuclear or Hydro therefore decently low carbon.

I think the Vaud point on electric heating concerns direct heating only (i.e. very much not heat pumps which are highly efficient) - direct electric heating is rather inefficient.

[BasP72]

	Quote:	yacek
	So, canton Vaud wants to ban and eradicate all residential electric heating by 2030 or so deeming it an inappropriate use of the scare electricity. I've seen some calculations showing that generating electricity from gas or petrol, transmitting it, charging and discharging again and turning an electric motor is still more efficient that burning the fuel directly in a car engine. Is it this what makes the e-cars more politically palatable here, or is it the lack of emissions from the tail pipe?

Maybe also at a powerstation you can do much more exhaust gas processing to clean it. On a car such a system must be small, light and cost effective, while with a power station I can imagine the optimisation is towards better performance.

[BasP72]

This morning on the bike to work I was wondering, how much future is in all these charging networks being built now ?

I don't know what the range is on a Model 3, but battery cost and weight will come down to a point that the range of a EV car will get in the 1000km and higher.

What is the point of gas-station like fast charging infrastructure when the range of your typical EV is more than can be humanly driven in one day ? You just refill during the night when you're asleep, either at home or a hotel or something, no need to sit for half an hour or even stop for a top-up...

?

[AbFab]

	Quote:	BasP72
	This morning on the bike to work I was wondering, how much future is in all these charging networks being built now ? I don't know what the range is on a Model 3, but battery cost and weight will come down to a point that the range of a EV car will get in the 1000km and higher. What is the point of gas-station like fast charging infrastructure when the range of your typical EV is more than can be humanly driven in one day ? You just refill during the night when you're asleep, either at home or a hotel or something, no need to sit for half an hour or even stop for a top-up... ?

I have only used a supercharger once, and that was driving from Zurich to the Engardin - the car said I could make it home without charge, but I didn‘t fancy arriving with just 10% to spare.

I will only use supercharger 2 or 3 times a year for long trips - like to the UK. Otherwise 98% of charging is done at night at home.

90% charge (as recommended by Tesla for non-roadtrip driving) gives a range of approx 480/520 kms depending on speed and hills.

I think the supercharger network is to sell the EV concept to those who have range anxiety...

[bigblue2]

	Quote:	BasP72
	This morning on the bike to work I was wondering, how much future is in all these charging networks being built now ? I don't know what the range is on a Model 3, but battery cost and weight will come down to a point that the range of a EV car will get in the 1000km and higher. What is the point of gas-station like fast charging infrastructure when the range of your typical EV is more than can be humanly driven in one day ? You just refill during the night when you're asleep, either at home or a hotel or something, no need to sit for half an hour or even stop for a top-up... ?

unless you take it on a track* then you'll only get a few laps out of a full charge

* or spirited mountain pass drive etc

[WilliamTell]

I am also close to pulling the trigger on a Tesla Model 3.


Thinking about the cheapest version i.e. the rear wheel drive. Autopilot now comes standard, so total price is just under CHF 50K Standard car comes with all the bells and whistles, so see no point in adding CHF 10K for a 4 wheel drive, or CHF 5K for future upgrade to the auto pilot.


I live in an apartment building, and will need an electrician to come by and install the charger (on my grid). This will cost about CHF 2'500.00 including the charger. Tesla lists electricians that do this, but when I called one of them, he pointed me to a local company in my village that also does this (although not on the Tesla site) and said I was better off having this done locally.

	Quote:	WilliamTell
	I am also close to pulling the trigger on a Tesla Model 3. Thinking about the cheapest version i.e. the rear wheel drive. Autopilot now comes standard, so total price is just under CHF 50K Standard car comes with all the bells and whistles, so see no point in adding CHF 10K for a 4 wheel drive, or CHF 5K for future upgrade to the auto pilot. I live in an apartment building, and will need an electrician to come by and install the charger (on my grid). This will cost about CHF 2'500.00 including the charger. Tesla lists electricians that do this, but when I called one of them, he pointed me to a local company in my village that also does this (although not on the Tesla site) and said I was better off having this done locally.

The quote seems a touch on the high side? I got a 16A charger installed in an apartment block that I was living in - which involved pulling a 16A, thick cable over at least 20m and I think it was less than 1000. You don't need a specialist charger on the wall, just a plug (at whatever Amp rating you want - 16 is a minimum though really) - your Tesla included charger will fit that.

I used Elektrobaer in Oerlikon for the installation - maybe have a word with them first?

[bigblue2]

imho Battery based cars won't exist in a few years, maybe 10 at most, they will be a footnote in history, clearly they are not the way forward with all the power loss and inefficiencies at every step of the way, from making the batteries, charging them, karting a tonne of dead weight around wherever you go to disposing of them.

hydrogen and fuel cells are the future, but battery cars are a necessary step in that direction

	Quote:	bigblue2
	disposing of them

They are recycled. Probably after 500,000kms or so they will have lost a significant charge potential, but they are still plenty useful enough for home energy storage etc.

[AbFab]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	imho Battery based cars won't exist in a few years, maybe 10 at most, they will be a footnote in history, clearly they are not the way forward with all the power loss and inefficiencies at every step of the way, from making the batteries, charging them, karting a tonne of dead weight around wherever you go to disposing of them. hydrogen and fuel cells are the future, but battery cars are a necessary step in that direction

But - watch this lengthy comparison (by a guy with a Model 3):

https://youtu.be/xU-LDZ0HTGc

[AbFab]

	Quote:	WilliamTell
	I am also close to pulling the trigger on a Tesla Model 3. Thinking about the cheapest version i.e. the rear wheel drive. Autopilot now comes standard, so total price is just under CHF 50K Standard car comes with all the bells and whistles, so see no point in adding CHF 10K for a 4 wheel drive, or CHF 5K for future upgrade to the auto pilot. I live in an apartment building, and will need an electrician to come by and install the charger (on my grid). This will cost about CHF 2'500.00 including the charger. Tesla lists electricians that do this, but when I called one of them, he pointed me to a local company in my village that also does this (although not on the Tesla site) and said I was better off having this done locally.

That‘s exactly what I paid for the wall charger and installation...

[DUTCH]

	Quote:	WilliamTell
	I am also close to pulling the trigger on a Tesla Model 3. Thinking about the cheapest version i.e. the rear wheel drive. Autopilot now comes standard, so total price is just under CHF 50K Standard car comes with all the bells and whistles, so see no point in adding CHF 10K for a 4 wheel drive, or CHF 5K for future upgrade to the auto pilot.

Thanks for highlighting, I ordered the base version (though I took the Enhanced Auto Pilot). Just don't know when the delivery for base version is going to be.

Now off to arranging Wall Charger and WiFi solution in Tiefgarage.

	Quote:	AbFab
	That‘s exactly what I paid for the wall charger and installation...

Apparently we'll all be making a fortune by the end of 2020 renting out our Teslas during the time we're not using them - seems a little optimistic, but you never know, Elon is a visionary! Should cover the installation charge

[WilliamTell]

	Quote:	DUTCH
	Now off to arranging Wall Charger and WiFi solution in Tiefgarage.

WiFi in the garage. I had not thought of that. Is this a must, or just nice to have? Is it needed for automatic software updates?

	Quote:	WilliamTell
	WiFi in the garage. I had not thought of that. Is this a must, or just nice to have? Is it needed for automatic software updates?

It isn't needed, provided you actually take the car out of the garage for a while

I am also currently in a rental place, with a deeeeep underground garage that has no mobile data signal, so I only usually get updates when I drive somewhere. They seem to just download over the air in the background whilst you are going about your daily business. You can install them without any internet though, which is good - I came back to my car the other morning to find that I now had cameras recording the area around the car to catch any wannabe thieves - not had a play with it yet, but will hook up an external HDD to have a play with the files.

[DUTCH]

	Quote:	WilliamTell
	WiFi in the garage. I had not thought of that. Is this a must, or just nice to have? Is it needed for automatic software updates?

The constant software updates are data intensive it seems and Tesla prefers to do over WIFI. Also to be able to communicate with the car to heat up or when fully charged etc (I have no cellular coverage either in tiefgarage).

I need to either pull a LAN cable or try one of the powerline solutions. Haven't figured out yet.

[DUTCH]

	Quote:	DUTCH
	Now off to arranging Wall Charger Tiefgarage.

Update:
The local electricity company (EW Hofe in my case) came around and offered to install charger for a fixed pauschale price of 2000.- (pulling the cables upto 20m and installing the included Menneke charger box, 11kW, 16A). But this ties with a 5year electricity contract with 0.5 rappen/kWh surcharge for hydroelectricity (nicely hidden in small print). Without this the price is 2300.-, which is what I am going for.