Tesla Fan Boy Thread

	Quote:	k_and_e
	check this ad: https://www.autoscout24.ch/6647790 the seller claims only 8% degradation after 200000 km

The seller also claims that he has practically always kept the battery charged between 60 and 80%, and that the actual range is now 350 km. That means that, if you want to continue to preserve battery life, the car has an achievable range per charge of just 70 km (20% of 350 -- keeping the battery charged between 60 and 80%).

Way less than 380 km (presumably the original range of that 200,000 km Tesla S) is woefully inadequate for my needs. My family makes a 360 km round trip (in one day) at least once per week. I would hate to add a detour and further delay to top up at a charger somewhere on the way.

My ICE SUV will just manage 1,000 km on a single tankful of diesel.

	Quote:
	The seller also claims that he has practically always kept the battery charged between 60 and 80%, and that the actual range is now 350 km. That means that, if you want to continue to preserve battery life, the car has an achievable range per charge of just 70 km (20% of 350 -- keeping the battery charged between 60 and 80%). Way less than 380 km (presumably the original range of that 200,000 km Tesla S) is woefully inadequate for my needs. My family makes a 360 km round trip (in one day) at least once per week. I would hate to add a detour and further delay to top up at a charger somewhere on the way. My ICE SUV will just manage 1,000 km on a single tankful of diesel.

Not 100% sure but I don't think that's what he's saying.

	Quote:
	Das Auto wurde sorgfältig bewegt (50% Stadt / 50% Autobahn) und der Akku parktisch immer zwischen 60% und 80 geladen.

...I believe he means he charges it up to between 60% and 80% of full. Usual advice to maximise Li-Ion life is to charge from about 20%-30% up to 60%-80% - i.e. avoid fully discharging or fully charging as far as possible.

[atamar]

	Quote:	WilliamTell
	Cooler Rims - 1,600.00 - 2.78%

I completely agree with the plug on the wall part. The rims, though... I was cursing the incremental costs, and then realized the stock rims aren't too bad, actually, if you just take off the fugly plastic bit (and plug the gaps. With a kit. Incremental cost.)

Apparently you lose a bit of aerodynamic coefficient, though. Frustrating when you're optimizing km/A, but I'll be amazed if the fancy rims don't have the same disadvantage.

	Quote:
	Not 100% sure but I don't think that's what he's saying. ...I believe he means he charges it up to between 60% and 80% of full. Usual advice to maximise Li-Ion life is to charge from about 20%-30% up to 60%-80% - i.e. avoid fully discharging or fully charging as far as possible.

Sounds reasonable(ish), but he does seem to say that he has always kept the battery charged between 60 and 80%. (Charging up to only 60% seems a bit of a waste of time.) May be something lost in translation, I guess.

Anyway, even if we allow the alternative baboon charging principle to apply, we're still talking only a maximum of 60% utilization of the 8%-depleted battery -- or a maximum effective range of 210 km if you want to keep that battery fresh and sparkling. That's really not a lot. Certainly not enough to whisk you away to Cannes, dahling.

As I understand it, the alternative is to use the full range offered by the battery (and risk running out of juice on the highway, where no number of Eveready AAs will save your bacon) to eke out 350-380 km per charge (still not a lot), but have your battery degrade rapidly.

Or...

Drive an ICE, diesel-lovin', 1,000 km per fill-up tank of an SUV.

[atamar]

	Quote:
	Usual advice to maximise Li-Ion life is to charge from about 20%-30% up to 60%-80% - i.e. avoid fully discharging or fully charging as far as possible.

That's plain Li-Ion batteries, though. The systems in eV's are anything but plain. Even some bikes/skooters/skateboards have pretty sophisticated hw/sw in them that lets the user skip this concern. In the case of Tesla we know that the less-than-maxed units have the same battery pack as the maxed-out ones, and the battery management system limits power/charge; it also takes care of cell balancing and over/undercharge concerns. (I don't know if the maxed-out ones allocate all cell capacity to straight out power or save some for the same reason - wouldn't be surprised.)

Which is a long way to say I suspect the car seller has been slightly misled.

...which doesn't mean I don't expect some woeful battery tales in the next few years nevertheless.

...which still doesn't mean I want to keep driving a diesel guzzler!

[AbFab]

This about sums it all up by Renault (Tesla don‘t need to advertise):

How does this work?

[BasP72]

	Quote:	AbFab
	This about sums it all up by Renault

Interesting to realise that this does happen at the coal fired power station providing the electricity...

[atamar]

	Quote:	AbFab
	There is a new 24 stall one opening in Deitikon on May 8...

Do you have any more on this? I ask, because there is a station (present, or scheduled, not sure) in Dietlikon, but the city council of Dietikon (without a pesky L) has decided they don't want to support Tesla in particular, so some initiative of a supercharger station got sunk, and I can't find information about another.

Edit: OK, a search today instead of a few weeks ago brings up this. Thanks for the impetus! This may be enough to push us over the edge, even if there isn't a plug at our garage spot. Maybe.

[atamar]

	Quote:	BasP72
	Interesting to realise that this does happen at the coal fired power station providing the electricity...

Only until we retire the coal plants and transition to renewables and nuclear.

	Quote:	atamar
	That's plain Li-Ion batteries, though. The systems in eV's are anything but plain. Even some bikes/skooters/skateboards have pretty sophisticated hw/sw in them that lets the user skip this concern. In the case of Tesla we know that the less-than-maxed units have the same battery pack as the maxed-out ones, and the battery management system limits power/charge; it also takes care of cell balancing and over/undercharge concerns. (I don't know if the maxed-out ones allocate all cell capacity to straight out power or save some for the same reason - wouldn't be surprised.) Which is a long way to say I suspect the car seller has been slightly misled. ...which doesn't mean I don't expect some woeful battery tales in the next few years nevertheless. ...which still doesn't mean I want to keep driving a diesel guzzler!

A Tesla owning friend was advised to hold to the 80% thing by Tesla when he got his car. Excepting of course when he needed the extra range.

Also, the only significant stories I have seen about Tesla battery packs failing have been for people that were constantly 100% - 0%.

Li-ion accus are rather delicate beasts - there are not any without a decently sophisticated charging/management system - else you run the risk of metallic Lithium forming. Which is something you really do not want to happen.

	Quote:
	A Tesla owning friend was advised to hold to the 80% thing by Tesla when he got his car. Excepting of course when he needed the extra range. Also, the only significant stories I have seen about Tesla battery packs failing have been for people that were constantly 100% - 0%. Li-ion accus are rather delicate beasts - there are not any without a decently sophisticated charging/management system - else you run the risk of metallic Lithium forming. Which is something you really do not want to happen.

	Quote:
	Sounds reasonable(ish), but he does seem to say that he has always kept the battery charged between 60 and 80%. (Charging up to only 60% seems a bit of a waste of time.) May be something lost in translation, I guess. Anyway, even if we allow the alternative baboon charging principle to apply, we're still talking only a maximum of 60% utilization of the 8%-depleted battery -- or a maximum effective range of 210 km if you want to keep that battery fresh and sparkling. That's really not a lot. Certainly not enough to whisk you away to Cannes, dahling. As I understand it, the alternative is to use the full range offered by the battery (and risk running out of juice on the highway, where no number of Eveready AAs will save your bacon) to eke out 350-380 km per charge (still not a lot), but have your battery degrade rapidly. Or... Drive an ICE, diesel-lovin', 1,000 km per fill-up tank of an SUV.

Just to clarify this...

With the model S and X (and I guess 3, but not an expert on those), in order to increase battery longevity, your regular charge should be to 90% (not sure why he thinks 60-80 is preferable, Tesla advise up to 90).

There is actually little or no harm charging to 100% IF you begin to discharge it quickly - i.e. full charging before undertaking a big trip. You see plenty of Taxi drivers sitting in the stalls in Dietlikon and elsewhere fully charging between rides - quite a profitable undertaking I suppose and not really in the spirit of things, but oh well.

Data shows that degradation is less than 10% for 160,000 miles of driving, so not too bad.

Re: New Dietikon charging station, I actually got an invite to the GRAND OPENING, hahaha. It will however be the largest charging station in Europe with 24 bays, which is pretty impressive I have to say...no maccys nearby though, so not sure how often I'll use it - I like Dietlikon as it is usually quiet early on a Sunday morning, the have a Coop Pronto which is open and McDonald's next door...also space at Coop to do your recycling so I can get brownie points for doing the chores, have a McD and bring the missus a Croissant home and all is well with the world

[WilliamTell]

Got the second quote from the local electrician, this time only for a "steckdose". This one comes in at CHF 2´288.00, so manageable.

It is for a "NAP-Steckdose 1 Einf CEE 400V 5P 16A" I think that comes to 11Kw per hour, so 6-7 hours to fully charge.

Summary of quote:
- Einbau FI/LS C in die bestehende Sicherungsverteilung
- Installation eines EVU Sperrschütz, Sperrung des Hautpstromkreis
- Durchbrüche von der Hautpverteilung in die Tiefgarage erstellen
- Leitungsverlegung durch die Tiefgarage zum Parkplatz
- Installation der CEE16 Steckdose
- Kontrolle und erstellen des Sicherheitsnachweis

Next step to inform the building management company and if no one objects, then order a new Tesla Model 3

Will I need to buy a separate cable for this setup, or make due with the one that comes with the car?

Will it be possible to buy a "Tesla Wall Charger" at a later time, and just plug it in?

	Quote:
	I like Dietlikon as it is usually quiet early on a Sunday morning, the have a Coop Pronto which is open and McDonald's next door...also space at Coop to do your recycling so I can get brownie points for doing the chores, have a McD and bring the missus a Croissant home and all is well with the world

The Missus will be insisting on a Tesla too before you know where you are

[WilliamTell]

	Quote:
	I like Dietlikon as it is usually quiet early on a Sunday morning, the have a Coop Pronto which is open and McDonald's next door...also space at Coop to do your recycling so I can get brownie points for doing the chores, have a McD and bring the missus a Croissant home and all is well with the world

Replace McDonald's with KFC and you have a business

	Quote:
	Re: New Dietikon charging station, I actually got an invite to the GRAND OPENING, hahaha. It will however be the largest charging station in Europe with 24 bays, which is pretty impressive I have to say...no maccys nearby though, so not sure how often I'll use it - I like Dietlikon as it is usually quiet early on a Sunday morning, the have a Coop Pronto which is open and McDonald's next door...also space at Coop to do your recycling so I can get brownie points for doing the chores, have a McD and bring the missus a Croissant home and all is well with the world

	Quote:	WilliamTell
	Replace McDonald's with KFC and you have a business

I went to check out the charging station this weekend and was pleasantly surprised. There is a Subway a short walk away if you like that sort of thing.

If you don't, they actually have a dedicated lounge for Tesla users. Very impressive - drinks and coffee machines, sandwich / snack vending machines, play area for kids, table tennis and an xbox to play also - could happily spend 30 minutes in there whilst waiting for a charge. They have wi-fi too, but it is the sort you need to get an SMS from Swisscom to activate, and would you believe it, my SIM card broke all of a sudden the day before, so i couldn't get online! (Could have asked one of the other punters to do it for me, Tesla solidarity and all that, but didn't bother).

The code to get in appears on the Navigation screen under the Supercharger icon, quite a nifty way of doing things...I guess it is open 24 hrs, but cannot confirm.

If this is the model for future stations, I'm all for it, made passing the time a joy.

[AbFab]

	Quote:	WilliamTell
	Got the second quote from the local electrician, this time only for a "steckdose". This one comes in at CHF 2´288.00, so manageable. It is for a "NAP-Steckdose 1 Einf CEE 400V 5P 16A" I think that comes to 11Kw per hour, so 6-7 hours to fully charge. Summary of quote: - Einbau FI/LS C in die bestehende Sicherungsverteilung - Installation eines EVU Sperrschütz, Sperrung des Hautpstromkreis - Durchbrüche von der Hautpverteilung in die Tiefgarage erstellen - Leitungsverlegung durch die Tiefgarage zum Parkplatz - Installation der CEE16 Steckdose - Kontrolle und erstellen des Sicherheitsnachweis Next step to inform the building management company and if no one objects, then order a new Tesla Model 3 Will I need to buy a separate cable for this setup, or make due with the one that comes with the car? Will it be possible to buy a "Tesla Wall Charger" at a later time, and just plug it in?

That‘s pricey, but of course I have no idea what work is required. One of the cables Tesla supplies should work.

I‘m not sure what advantage a Tesla wall charger has over a dedicated wall socket. Or if it’s necessary at all. My Tesla Wall Connector is wired into its own 3 phase 220 volt supply from the main box in the cellar this gives 65 km/hour charging about as fast as you can get on A/C...

If a car would be fully autonomous, then it could drive to a charging station. Imagine this is the foreseeable future, would it actually make sense to have your own charging station?

Or does this concept of a charging station with shops mean that this is not going to happen soon?

[AbFab]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	If a car would be fully autonomous, then it could drive to a charging station. Imagine this is the foreseeable future, would it actually make sense to have your own charging station? Or does this concept of a charging station with shops mean that this is not going to happen soon?

For Teslas anyway fast or supercharging every time is not good for battery life. Slower home charging is better.

But by the time your car can go off alone and charge itself, the batteries we know today will have be replaced with far more efficient ones...

[WilliamTell]

Not sure what cable to get.


Steckdose that will be installed in the Tiefgarage is of type NAS:


Tesla delivers cables with Schuko plug:


I doubt there is an adapter from Schuko to NAS.

	Quote:	WilliamTell
	Not sure what cable to get. Steckdose that will be installed in the Tiefgarage is of type NAS: Tesla delivers cables with Schuko plug: I doubt there is an adapter from Schuko to NAS.

You sure? I'd have thought they deliver a mennekes or similar that has adapters for a normal plug socket (that's what I got) - I don't see them making the default cable Tesla -> normal wall socket plug