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Old 10.04.2019, 15:25
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

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Update:
I received a letter from the prescutor of their proposal to the police tribunal:
1) 7 Months jail
2) But they have no objections to canceling the jail term due to no past conviction, however, cannot commit any offence within 3 years
3) ~5K chf fine to be paid immediatly (no pay slip was included)
4) ~700 chf court fees

I suspect the police will review and give me their vedict? I feel lost! Not sure what to do next. Should I contact a lawyer?
You cold always pass by a lawyer and just pay him an hour to overlook your case and give his/her opinion. But assuming you already admitted to the crime, you already had the hearing and the facts seem to be pretty clear and prison seems very unlikely I don't see what a lawyer could do for you.
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  #22  
Old 10.04.2019, 15:27
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

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I don't think you need a lawyer. The police will not review the verdict as they have no say after the judges decision.

The letter you have now is for your information. I. E. If you need to challenge their decision (which you need to do within a week or two). You will get a payment slip soon in a separate mail.

I'm surprised they didn't ban you. Maybe you will get another letter by the licence authority informing about the ban based on the above verdict.

5.7k is not too bad for doing twice the speed limit.

My understanding is that the presecutor proposes what they should do and in the police tribunal they will decide wether they will accept the proposal or decline. I'm already banned for 6 months but no information about extending but like you said the police may send a letter about the bad. I'm I allowed to share the proposal part here (is it ilegal?)
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  #23  
Old 10.04.2019, 15:27
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

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Update:
I received a letter from the prescutor of their proposal to the police tribunal:
1) 7 Months jail
2) But they have no objections to canceling the jail term due to no past conviction, however, cannot commit any offence within 3 years
3) ~5K chf fine to be paid immediatly (no pay slip was included)
4) ~700 chf court fees

I suspect the police will review and give me their vedict? I feel lost! Not sure what to do next. Should I contact a lawyer?
Under the circumstances that doesn't seem too bad, as others have already pointed out the lawyer will only cost you more money and may end up with a bigger fine.
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  #24  
Old 10.04.2019, 15:31
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

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My understanding is that the presecutor proposes what they should do and in the police tribunal they will decide wether they will accept the proposal or decline. I'm already banned for 6 months but no information about extending but like you said the police may send a letter about the bad. I'm I allowed to share the proposal part here (is it ilegal?)
Based on your information the full consequence of the issue is 6 month ban and a 5.7 kchf fine. That's it.

Don't be naughty for the next three years
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  #25  
Old 10.04.2019, 15:37
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

Thank you all for your prompt reply. The only reason I wanted to contact the Lawyer is becuase the wording on the "Annexe a l'acte d'accusation du minstere public" seems like a grey area.

This is the text that worry me:

Au vude son absence d'antecedent, le Minstere public ne s'oppose pas a l'octroi du sursis, assorti d'un delai d'epreuve de 3 ans.


To me, this is just a proposal but the police could still give me the 7 months jail term?
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  #26  
Old 10.04.2019, 15:41
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

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To me, this is just a proposal but the police could still give me the 7 months jail term?
The police can't give you anything, it's not for them to decide.

That's the judge's job, and, yes, he/she doesn't need the follow the recommendation.

Tom
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  #27  
Old 10.04.2019, 15:50
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

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The police can't give you anything, it's not for them to decide.

That's the judge's job, and, yes, he/she doesn't need the follow the recommendation.

Tom


I understand that but this is being proposed to the "Tribunal de Police", surely a judge from there will make his/her judgement based on the proposal?
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  #28  
Old 10.04.2019, 15:55
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

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I understand that but this is being proposed to the "Tribunal de Police", surely a judge from there will make his/her judgement based on the proposal?

No, the judge will make the judgment based on the facts.
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  #29  
Old 10.04.2019, 16:04
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

I think I'm beging to get a clear picture now.


So my assumption was correct. This is not the final judgment, this is what is being proposed to the court and then I will be called in for a judgement in front of a judge and that's where the final vedict will be given.

So again back to my question, what should I do now? wait?
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  #30  
Old 10.04.2019, 16:09
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

Quote:
View Post
Update:
I received a letter from the prescutor of their proposal to the police tribunal:
1) 7 Months jail
2) But they have no objections to canceling the jail term due to no past conviction, however, cannot commit any offence within 3 years
3) ~5K chf fine to be paid immediatly (no pay slip was included)
4) ~700 chf court fees

I suspect the police will review and give me their vedict? I feel lost! Not sure what to do next. Should I contact a lawyer?
Thank you for the update.

So you'll be on probation. I would expect that ordinary fines (costing less than 260 CHF) have no effect. Personally, I would definitely contact a lawyer, even if it's probably just for peace of mind.
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  #31  
Old 10.04.2019, 16:09
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

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I'm surprised they didn't ban you.
He said in an earlier post that he was banned for 6 months. There are two stages to punishment for motoring offences. For more routine cases you just get a fine and a ban by the police / strassenverkehrsamt (administrative punishment). Cases that are more serious are then forwarded to the Staatsanwalt for court and this is the second part of the punishment.

Anyway, I will not judge the op as I am constantly getting caught just over the limit (nothing anywhere near quite as dramatic as the op though, (but it is easy to get distracted nowadays and sometimes the changes in speed limits make no sense... 50-60-80-50-60

6 months using public transport will give the op time to reflect
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  #32  
Old 10.04.2019, 16:29
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

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There are two stages to punishment for motoring offences..
Technically and legally there is only one punishment. The driving ban is "just" an administrative meassure.

What is surprising and normally not the case that the driving ban came first and the actual punishment in form of fine/monetary penalty/jail later.

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I understand that but this is being proposed to the "Tribunal de Police", surely a judge from there will make his/her judgement based on the proposal?
The tribunal de police is the judge at this stage of the process. http://ge.ch/justice/tribunal-de-police

Worth to object? The sentence seems to be within the guidelines for such an offence. See Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.
A probation period of 3 years seems to be rather long. 2 years seem to be the usual.
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  #33  
Old 10.04.2019, 16:39
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

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Technically and legally there is only one punishment. The driving ban is "just" an administrative meassure.
Strictly speaking you are probably right, but having to take public transport for 6 months sure sounds like a punishment to me whatever you call it!
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Old 10.04.2019, 16:41
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

Since you're lost:
This is a preliminary ruling (to call it that, "Strafbefehl" in German) by the public prosecutor. This is applied in relatively clear and simple cases where the culprit has been identified or accepts the accusation. The idea is to reduce the workload for the courts, which is reflected in the admin fee.

You can accept this ruling, either by doing so explicitly or by not challenging it. If you challenge the Strafbefehl it will go to the courts, the verdict may be unchanged, increased or reduced. But the court costs will probably be much higher than what the fee is now, and that will probably have to be paid by you.

Since your permit has already been suspended in Switzerland, do you remember if the 6 months are final? Or is it perhaps a provisional duration subject to the actual sentence?
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Old 10.04.2019, 16:45
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

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Technically and legally there is only one punishment. The driving ban is "just" an administrative meassure.

What is surprising and normally not the case that the driving ban came first and the actual punishment in form of fine/monetary penalty/jail later.


The tribunal de police is the judge at this stage of the process. http://ge.ch/justice/tribunal-de-police

Worth to object? The sentence seems to be within the guidelines for such an offence. See Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.
A probation period of 3 years seems to be rather long. 2 years seem to be the usual.
Thank you for the information and links. It did help me understand how the system works here.
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  #36  
Old 10.04.2019, 16:46
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

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Since your permit has already been suspended in Switzerland, do you remember if the 6 months are final? Or is it perhaps a provisional duration subject to the actual sentence?
The driving ban is final if they did not object against the ban. Criminal punishment and administrative measure are independent of each other.
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Old 10.04.2019, 16:54
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

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Since you're lost:
This is a preliminary ruling (to call it that, "Strafbefehl" in German) by the public prosecutor. This is applied in relatively clear and simple cases where the culprit has been identified or accepts the accusation. The idea is to reduce the workload for the courts, which is reflected in the admin fee.

You can accept this ruling, either by doing so explicitly or by not challenging it. If you challenge the Strafbefehl it will go to the courts, the verdict may be unchanged, increased or reduced. But the court costs will probably be much higher than what the fee is now, and that will probably have to be paid by you.

Since your permit has already been suspended in Switzerland, do you remember if the 6 months are final? Or is it perhaps a provisional duration subject to the actual sentence?
Thank you so so much for make it clear for me. To be honest, I did not have any intention to challege at all. It already has taken a heavy toll on me without the unknowns.

In regards to the 6 months suspension, there was not any indication about final or not:
"La dureede l'interdiction est fixee 18.01.2019 au 17.07.2019, dates incluses.
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  #38  
Old 10.04.2019, 17:36
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

Don't worry, a heavy fine yes, jail very unlikely and even if they sentence you it can usually be bought off by paying a daily rate.

People say Switzerland is severe, but in many ways it can be more lenient than the UK. Someone I know was doing 105 mph on the M1 late at night near Birmingham, and he was sentenced to 3 months jail and a two year ban. Actual, not suspended and he had a clean license till then. Small infractions are punished with a fine here and if paid that's the end of the matter, unlike the UK where you get points and then a ban.
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  #39  
Old 11.04.2019, 08:25
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

I would be very surprised if you did any jail time. The Swiss prefer to use their jails for other matters, particularly to keep dangerous crooks off the street. You may end up with a suspended sentence, or possibly "jours amende" where you effectively pay off any jail sentence that's been handed down.
As far as I can tell, you have a 6 months driving ban in Switzerland. In principle the Swiss authorities will have told the DVLA, but I've no idea if the DVLA will do anything about it. Unless they do, the driving ban is only for Switzerland.
Finally, as a little backgrounder, the place you were flashed is heavily used by "frontaliers" from Bois-Chatton and the Pays de Gex. It's a small country road and the villages of Collex and Bossy really don't have the infrastructure to cope with that traffic. Hence the speed limits through the villages. I'm pretty sure there are chicanes at the entrance of the villages to slow the traffic down.
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  #40  
Old 11.04.2019, 10:15
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

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People say Switzerland is severe, but in many ways it can be more lenient than the UK. Someone I know was doing 105 mph on the M1 late at night near Birmingham, and he was sentenced to 3 months jail and a two year ban. Actual, not suspended and he had a clean license till then. .

I'm calling b0ll0cks on that. Unless you have the newspaper article?

I've never heard of anyone being jailed for just over 100 on a motorway.


You can 'only' be jailed for reckless driving.



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