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Old 14.03.2019, 12:39
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Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

I moved to France in order to work at an institute in Geneva as an engineer from the UK.

A few months later, I received a Mandat De Comparution for speeding. In that letter, there was no information about when/where or how fast I was driving.

So when I went there, I had my inquiry with a police officer and that's when I was told that I drove at 90 km/h on a 40 km/h road, so with the 5km/h excessive tolerance, I was driving 45 km/h excessively (I was driving my UK registered car). They told me the road name but I had no clue which road that was. They told me I was caught at the entrance to a town. I was a bit shocked about the speed as I'm not the kind who enjoy driving at high speed. He took all my details including my financial information.

After 3 months, I received a letter stating that I have been suspended for 6 months to drive in Switzerland and a fine about 170CHF. I paid the fine and stopped driving.

Three months later, I was sent a Mandat De Comparution by a persecutor asking to appear at the Ministry of Public. I went there without knowing what to expect. They had organised a translator for me and then they said this is the preliminary hearing so here read your rights. I was so overwhelmed by all this but carried on answering their questions. I was told that they will review this case and they may call me back in for a second hearing or they will make a proposal to the police.

I noticed on the document they mentioned (art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)) which is a traffic offence. I really don't know how to handle this. Not even sure what to expect.

Did anyone go through a similar process? What is your advice? Please help me as I have lost sleep over this matter. I really don't know many people here to advise me.

Thank you in advance.
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Old 14.03.2019, 22:08
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

My advice is not to speed.
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Old 14.03.2019, 22:10
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

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My advice is not to speed.
Agreed.
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Old 14.03.2019, 22:47
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

I've never had to attend court like this, but even for lesser offences there's a two stage process, the second of which may (does, IME) issue a much higher fine. I guess for you there may be a possibility of more severe punishment, even prison is possible. No idea how likely that is, but prepare yourself for the worst.

I hope, of course, that it doesn't come to that, and I sympathise. 90 in a 40 is, you have to admit, a bit naughty. In the UK too if would automatically mean a ban, although the fines here can be very much higher.
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Old 14.03.2019, 22:57
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

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I was told that I drove at 90 km/h on a 40 km/h road, so with the 5km/h excessive tolerance, I was driving 45 km/h excessively (I was driving my UK registered car).
what really surprises me is this part, surely if the road is 40 Km/h it must either be a very narrow road or you went through a huge residential area. You should have surely realised that your speed was way too over even without any road signs..

Anyway, look for the road name the police have given you on google maps and check if you have ever gone through that area. This will give you a good idea if you or someone else was driving your car at that time. You can actually ask for the picture against an extra cost.

Expect a huge fine. Prison is highly unlikely if you pay the fine.

Also check for car sharing with a friend to come to work in Switzerland as you will definitely not be driving for some time.

Good luck!
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Old 15.03.2019, 11:24
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I've never had to attend court like this, but even for lesser offences there's a two stage process, the second of which may (does, IME) issue a much higher fine. I guess for you there may be a possibility of more severe punishment, even prison is possible. No idea how likely that is, but prepare yourself for the worst.

I hope, of course, that it doesn't come to that, and I sympathise. 90 in a 40 is, you have to admit, a bit naughty. In the UK too if would automatically mean a ban, although the fines here can be very much higher.
Thank you for the reply.

Do you recon I should get a lawyer? I'm sure I wont be able to afford one but maybe just one of consultation with a lawyer will do me any good?

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what really surprises me is this part, surely if the road is 40 Km/h it must either be a very narrow road or you went through a huge residential area. You should have surely realised that your speed was way too over even without any road signs..

Anyway, look for the road name the police have given you on google maps and check if you have ever gone through that area. This will give you a good idea if you or someone else was driving your car at that time. You can actually ask for the picture against an extra cost.

Expect a huge fine. Prison is highly unlikely if you pay the fine.

Also check for car sharing with a friend to come to work in Switzerland as you will definitely not be driving for some time.

Good luck!
Many thanks Jeep for your constructive reply.

This is the road I'm accused of breaching the speed limit:
sur la route de Collex, à la hauteur du numéro 209, sur la commune de Collex, en direction de la route des Fayards
I don't recognize the road at all. Also, does above instruction say that I'm going towards la route des Fayards? or going from la route des Fayards?

Last edited by 3Wishes; 16.03.2019 at 17:25. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 15.03.2019, 12:02
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

It says you were here:
https://goo.gl/maps/fMkZzohfpWm
and heading south-east.

There's a 40 limit starting just before the roundabout, I guess the camera must have been just after the limit started. Up to that point the limit is 80, seems you missed the speed limit sign...
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Old 15.03.2019, 14:22
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

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Thank you for the reply.

Do you recon I should get a lawyer? I'm sure I wont be able to afford one but maybe just one of consultation with a lawyer will do me any good?
Unless you want to contest it, getting a lawyer is only adding to your costs.

You don’t sound convinced it was you from this thread though?
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Old 15.03.2019, 17:18
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

Just from looking on google maps street view looks like it's already signaled for 60 as you pass Chemin de Chaumets so if anyone was doing 90 here they would already be 30km over as they pass this point before reaching the 40 signal about 20/30 meters further on.


By the way, I sympathize. I have, in the past been caught by a camera placed just a few meters after the sign. It looks to me as this could have been the case here as the 40 is announced before the bend when you would logically slow down.

This exactly why you get loads of drivers here who slow down exactly when they come level with the sign. Took me a while and a few expensive 10/15 km fines to learn that in Switzerland you often find the camera just after the sign to catch out those lazy people who run those few extra few yards before braking.

Sincerely I hope this all this works out ok for you.

Best wishes

John
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Old 15.03.2019, 18:02
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

There's a school and a Kindergarten on the right by the bus stop markings. It looks like the "exit" (driveway?) from Nr 209 is directly connected to the school precincts so you need to be prepared for kids running onto the street.

90km/h anywhere near that spot is calling for disaster.

Unfortunately it won't be the driver who suffers in case of an accident. I have no doubt he'd drive completely different if it were.
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Old 15.03.2019, 18:08
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It says you were here:
https://goo.gl/maps/fMkZzohfpWm
and heading south-east.

There's a 40 limit starting just before the roundabout, I guess the camera must have been just after the limit started. Up to that point the limit is 80, seems you missed the speed limit sign...
Thank you for pointing out the location for me.

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Unless you want to contest it, getting a lawyer is only adding to your costs.

You don’t sound convinced it was you from this thread though?
I just cannot recall that day (it was captured around 18:50 - Thursday - working day). I work nowhere near that place so not sure how I ended up on that road. During early days, I used google navigation so not sure if it took me there. I do not want to contest it as it is already draining my mind out.

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Just from looking on google maps street view looks like it's already signaled for 60 as you pass Chemin de Chaumets so if anyone was doing 90 here they would already be 30km over as they pass this point before reaching the 40 signal about 20/30 meters further on.


By the way, I sympathize. I have, in the past been caught by a camera placed just a few meters after the sign. It looks to me as this could have been the case here as the 40 is announced before the bend when you would logically slow down.

This exactly why you get loads of drivers here who slow down exactly when they come level with the sign. Took me a while and a few expensive 10/15 km fines to learn that in Switzerland you often find the camera just after the sign to catch out those lazy people who run those few extra few yards before braking.

Sincerely I hope this all this works out ok for you.

Best wishes

John
Thank you for taking your time to reply my post. I usually don't drive fast. I assume it was at first 80, 60 and 40 but not sure how I missed the sign. perhaps, the road look straight and clear, I thought it must be still 80km/h road...I really don't know.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 16.03.2019 at 17:26. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 15.03.2019, 20:09
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

When you are caught at more than twice the speed limit, Swiss law calls it a délit de chauffard. It’s punished extremely severely, that is a year or more of license ban, possible confiscation of the car, and possibly a year in jail.

The year in jail was automatic punishment until last year for such heavy speeding, but apparently judges have a bit more leeway now and it’ll probably be turned into a very heavy fine.
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Old 15.03.2019, 20:48
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

Did you say that your car had British plates? I was under the impression that CH had no relationship with the DVLA and could not issue fines etc to British drivers.

Apparently, that's not the case.

I feel for you greatly and can only imagine how much sleep you're losing.

However, I'm sure it won't turn out as bad as you think. It will be expensive - you can bet on that - but it won't be a worst case scenario.
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Old 15.03.2019, 20:50
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

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However, I'm sure it won't turn out as bad as you think. It will be expensive - you can bet on that - but it won't be a worst case scenario.
How do you know? (Serious question)
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Old 15.03.2019, 21:27
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

How does the ban work?
Banned in CH obviously, but does that mean banned in France?
And what about informing the insurance company?
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Old 15.03.2019, 23:11
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

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How do you know? (Serious question)
That’s a fair question. I’m not clairvoyant obviously but, I have found in my time here that the “system”, lets call it that, appears to us (perhaps intentionally) as impersonal, strict, forbidding and averse to making exceptions. That the most difficult and onerous outcome will be the one that happens. And there is always that ambiguous fear of being the cause of trouble, and what that might mean.

I have certainly had things I have worried about that involve legal or administrative matters. To be clear, I haven’t broken any laws but I do worry if I’ve followed procedures correctly and what terrible things may happen if I don’t.

In the end, and this is generally true in life I find, the most catastrophic projected outcome that keeps us awake at night doesn’t in the end come true. And some things get resolved almost magically. I’ve certainly had my fair share of imagined worries these past few years - and none of my catastrophes have happened.

In this case, talk of prison terms is feverish and extreme. Perhaps theoretically possible but highly unlikely. But I have no doubt it will be a very expensive experience for the OP, and one that will make for a momentous story to tell, and learning experience, in the fairly near future.
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Old 16.03.2019, 00:24
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Re: Need advice with the driving offence art. 90 al. 2 (LCR)

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I just cannot recall that day (it was captured around 18:50 - Thursday - working day). I work nowhere near that place so not sure how I ended up on that road. During early days, I used google navigation so not sure if it took me there. I do not want to contest it as it is already draining my mind out.
I would say do the following.
1- You mentioned that you use google maps. You will find your driving history. Maybe you were not driving.
2- If you were not driving ask for the picture. this does not cost much(as compared to fine).

2. Regarding the prison, I would say you are borderline safe.
Here is the document where you can find more details. Look page number 23 https://www.newsd.admin.ch/newsd/mes...ents/48984.pdf

um mindestens 40 km/h, wo die Höchstgeschwindigkeit höchstens 30 km/h beträgt;
um mindestens 50 km/h, wo die Höchstgeschwindigkeit höchstens 50 km/h beträgt;

Documents say that you are a risky driver if you drive more than 40(when the speed limit is 30) and more than 50 when the speed limit is "50". I would say in your case this is 50. Go to the police station where you went for the first time and ask them. They will know better about the rule and fine.
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