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  #21  
Old 02.06.2019, 21:30
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

I've driven automatics and manuals on Swiss mountain roads. While I marginally prefer manuals, what really matters is the turning circle and stability.

AWD/4WD with lots of power are the most fun.
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Old 02.06.2019, 22:09
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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I have a 4x4 also, though I think it's even smaller than a panda.
What 4x4 is smaller than a Panda?

Tom
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  #23  
Old 02.06.2019, 22:18
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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What 4x4 is smaller than a Panda?

Tom
A Jimny?
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  #24  
Old 03.06.2019, 14:50
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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I have found the X3 to be the most fuel efficient car I have ever driven, and I wouldn't go back given how safe they are.
a) they brake worse than a normal car
b) they handle worse in corners than a normal car


SUVs feel safer as you have a high sitting position and a lot of steel around you. Simple truth is that in any physical way imaginable they are worse than a standard sedan. And if you have kids and need extra space: a "Kombi", the good old station wagon, will work much better than any SUV. The only thing they have going for them is that their resell value is so bad that is makes financial sense to go for an SUV for the used car market of 8-10 year old cars.
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  #25  
Old 03.06.2019, 15:57
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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I have found the X3 to be the most fuel efficient car I have ever driven, and I wouldn't go back given how safe they are.

Thanks all!
With a bit of objectivity and European safety figures:

BMW X3


Adult safety: 88%
Child safety: 83%
Pedestrian safety: 53% *

Renault Clio

Adult safety: 96%
Child safety: 89%
Pedestrian safety: 72%

So one's a sh1tty little hatchback and ones a massive big SUV.

Shall we look at fuel efficiency betrween the two now?


* I appreciate a BMW SUV driver might not give a damn about this figure but lets include it anyway.
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  #26  
Old 04.06.2019, 07:35
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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What 4x4 is smaller than a Panda?

Tom
I checked and I was wrong - mine's bigger by a few inches.
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  #27  
Old 04.06.2019, 07:46
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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I checked and I was wrong - mine's bigger by a few inches.
You're showing off now.
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  #28  
Old 04.06.2019, 08:15
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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With a bit of objectivity and European safety figures:

BMW X3


Adult safety: 88%
Child safety: 83%
Pedestrian safety: 53% *

Renault Clio

Adult safety: 96%
Child safety: 89%
Pedestrian safety: 72%

So one's a sh1tty little hatchback and ones a massive big SUV.

Shall we look at fuel efficiency betrween the two now?


* I appreciate a BMW SUV driver might not give a damn about this figure but lets include it anyway.

If a BMW X3 crashes into a Clio, I would still prefer to be in the BMW. Those extra kilos make a massive difference in crash impact.
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  #29  
Old 04.06.2019, 08:22
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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If a BMW X3 crashes into a Clio, I would still prefer to be in the BMW. Those extra kilos make a massive difference in crash impact.
Not according to the accident research people, you will be safer in the Cleo.
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  #30  
Old 04.06.2019, 09:22
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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What 4x4 is smaller than a Panda?

Tom
Suzuki Jimny or Ignis ?
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  #31  
Old 04.06.2019, 09:34
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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If a BMW X3 crashes into a Clio, I would still prefer to be in the BMW. Those extra kilos make a massive difference in crash impact.
Applies more to full frontal head-on collisions.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3400214/

A selected extract...

Quote:
The CCIS data has confirmed the finding that lighter vehicles have higher rates of fatality and serious injury in frontal collisions but this has not been observed for side impacts. In frontal collisions the belted drivers of small cars have twice the rate of fatal and MAIS 3+ injuries as those in large cars. The head, face and chests of belted drivers showed the greatest increases in AIS 2+ injuries. In side impacts struckside occupants in large cars had marginally more such injuries particularly to the chest and arms.
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  #32  
Old 04.06.2019, 11:01
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

I had an Audi A3 1.6tdi for a couple of years. Front wheel drive, manual gearbox, normal car, no Quattro system. I have recently upgraded to a Q2 with S-Tronic, Quattro and a 2.0tdi engine. The difference is night and day grip wise. I have so much more confidence in the Q2 in a variety of conditions. The A3 was running 17inch wheels and the Q2 19inch. This winter was terrible compared to the last for snow and ice but i felt much more confident in the Q2. I didnt get stuck once and didnt really feel like the auto box was a hindrance. Having said this i understand why people would prefer a manual, especially in snow or tricky conditions as you can feather the clutch more.

Basicaly anyone saying you dont need 4x4 is probably right, but anyone saying that you are getting the same levels of grip or control in a front wheel drive car compared to a 4x4 is wrong. It is all about tires too, equipt your car for the conditions and you will be fine. The quattro system is noticably better than the front wheel drive equivalent, even on days like today, flooring the throttle from a junction equates to no wheel spin at all and just pulls you forward at an alarming rate.

This is my 1st quattro car and i would say that from now on i would try to get a car with this system, or similar from another manufacturer.

Last edited by ormesome; 04.06.2019 at 11:18.
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  #33  
Old 04.06.2019, 11:05
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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The quattro system is noticably better than the front wheel drive equivalent, even on days like today, flooring the throttle from a junction equates to no wheel spin at all and just pulls you forward at an alarming rate.

.
Thanks, useful to know next time I'm at traffic lights and they change to green.
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  #34  
Old 04.06.2019, 11:07
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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With a bit of objectivity and European safety figures:

BMW X3


Adult safety: 88%
Child safety: 83%
Pedestrian safety: 53% *

Renault Clio

Adult safety: 96%
Child safety: 89%
Pedestrian safety: 72%

So one's a sh1tty little hatchback and ones a massive big SUV.

Shall we look at fuel efficiency betrween the two now?


* I appreciate a BMW SUV driver might not give a damn about this figure but lets include it anyway.
Where did you get those figures from for an X3? i could only find better than what you quoted. Unless you are looking at an old X3 comapred to a new Clio? Im not complaining, just be good to know for a like for like comparison

It should be:

Adult safety: 93%
Child safety: 84%
Pedestrian safety: 70%

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/x3-/-x4/33285

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle...-door-suv/2019
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  #35  
Old 04.06.2019, 11:11
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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Where did you get those figures from for an X3? i could only find better than what you quoted. Unless you are looking at an old X3 comapred to a new Clio? Im not complaining, just be good to know for a like for like comparison

It should be:

Adult safety: 93%
Child safety: 84%
Pedestrian safety: 70%

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/x3-/-x4/33285

https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle...-door-suv/2019
Ok, so the X3 is only slightly worse than an Clio... alright then. While I am not saying your Q2 is in any way a bad carů that A3 you had with added quattro would probably be even more stable, no?
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  #36  
Old 04.06.2019, 11:13
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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Thanks, useful to know next time I'm at traffic lights and they change to green.
No problem!
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  #37  
Old 04.06.2019, 11:18
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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Ok, so the X3 is only slightly worse than an Clio... alright then. While I am not saying your Q2 is in any way a bad carů that A3 you had with added quattro would probably be even more stable, no?
Stability wise, possibly due to being lower down. The Q2 is higher up but not by much. To be honest the 19inch alloys and the Quattro system give it much more grip that really it negates any of the instability issues, not that i have had any. Now if i was comparing an A3 with like to like features, then you do have an argument. The thing is, SUVs like the Q2, in my opinion are not high enough to be much different stability wise. The A3 is hardly a sports car and is often criticised as a terrible drivers car. The XC40, X5 or Q5/Q7 would all have stability issues for sure as they are higher.
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  #38  
Old 04.06.2019, 11:46
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

Automatics had a bad reputation way back for being jerky and more expensive to run in fuel costs.


Today, they have 7,8 or 9 speed autoboxes, covered in sofware, they are cheaper to run and far more convenient, both for the once per week (if that) when you vist whichever Swiss mountain rocks your boat, and then so much easier for the next 6 days on your daily commute.


Point and squirt and off you go, no more porridge stiring !


As for speed and acceleration, etc, well Formula 1 are all automatic now and go quite fast so I am told and my car, which is automatic needs no more than 3.3 seconds to be at 100kmh.....
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Old 04.06.2019, 11:50
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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As for speed and acceleration, etc, well Formula 1 are all automatic now and go quite fast so I am told and my car, which is automatic needs no more than 3.3 seconds to be at 100kmh.....
They aren't. The lack of a clutch pedal does not make it an automatic transmission.
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Old 04.06.2019, 13:57
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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They aren't. The lack of a clutch pedal does not make it an automatic transmission.



As you so say, but for most of us mere mortals, no clutch pedal is essentially an automatic car, with or without flappy paddles
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