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  #41  
Old 04.06.2019, 15:03
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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As you so say, but for most of us mere mortals, no clutch pedal is essentially an automatic car, with or without flappy paddles

F1 has a semi-automatic gearbox.
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  #42  
Old 04.06.2019, 15:18
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As you so say, but for most of us mere mortals, no clutch pedal is essentially an automatic car, with or without flappy paddles
In the context of driving on mountain roads they can behave very differently (see my earlier post), so the distinction is important. A manual still drives like a manual, even if it's got an automatic clutch and change.

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F1 has a semi-automatic gearbox.
Not really, as in fact they don't make any automatic shifts like a roadgoing car with similar dual-clutch setups. No 'Drive' mode on them.
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  #43  
Old 04.06.2019, 16:37
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

There are generally three schools of thought:

#1: "I can go anywhere in my FWD car with proper winter tires because I have amazing driving skills. OP, you need driving lessons."

#2: "I can go anywhere in my older SUV with a manual transmission and manually-operated 4WD system and manually locking hubs. Also, I have amazing driving skills. OP, what you need is a 1988 Toyota truck and some driving lessons."

#3: "I have a brand new AWD wagon/coupe/sedan/CUV with more transmission gears than your bicycle and electronic nannies that solve most traction problems. OP, you need a 2019 BMW X5 / Porsche Cayenne / etc. Also, my driving skills are amazing but are not strictly necessary."
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  #44  
Old 04.06.2019, 16:42
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

#4: "I know my car's limitations and I know my limitations and I try and err on the side of caution.
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  #45  
Old 04.06.2019, 17:23
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

#5 "blya, I carry LADA NIVA everywhere, uphill, downhill - small like backpack, car never works, but makes good noise."
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  #46  
Old 04.06.2019, 17:32
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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Not really, as in fact they don't make any automatic shifts like a roadgoing car with similar dual-clutch setups. No 'Drive' mode on them.

I guess these guys know better than you



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Formula 1 cars use highly sophisticated semi-automatic, seamless shift gearboxes. Aside from when pulling away, the driver is not required to manually operate the clutch, nor is he required to lift off the accelerator when changing up through the gears. Instead, when another gear is selected the shift is completed ‘seamlessly’ (via a clever system which uses two shift barrels), meaning the driver suffers from no loss of drive. As such, gear changes are not only significantly faster than they were with the traditional gear lever and clutch pedal approach (taking a matter of milliseconds), but the driver can also keep both hands on the steering wheel at all times.

https://www.formula1.com/en/champion...--gearbox.html
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  #47  
Old 04.06.2019, 23:51
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

I have a 90's 740i and the 5 speed auto gearbox was excellent.It also had a "tiptronic" function. The same set-up can be found in some X5s.


The X5s 4x4 system though isn't regarded very highly. My neighbour used one to put a dinghy in a lake and got stuck on more or less flat sand and had to be towed out. He probably had normal road tyres on.
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Old 05.06.2019, 08:41
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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I guess these guys know better than you






https://www.formula1.com/en/champion...--gearbox.html

It's the same as the AMG gear change
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  #49  
Old 05.06.2019, 08:56
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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It's the same as the AMG gear change

Only in your wet dreams
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  #50  
Old 05.06.2019, 09:49
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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Only in your wet dreams

I think you'll find on the real AMG gearboxes whilst it is not exactly the same it is very similar


https://www.autoevolution.com/news/m...ms-112461.html


Although i don't really know and care even less
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  #51  
Old 05.06.2019, 10:03
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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I had an Audi A3 1.6tdi for a couple of years. Front wheel drive, manual gearbox, normal car, no Quattro system. I have recently upgraded to a Q2 with S-Tronic, Quattro and a 2.0tdi engine. The difference is night and day grip wise. I have so much more confidence in the Q2 in a variety of conditions. The A3 was running 17inch wheels and the Q2 19inch. This winter was terrible compared to the last for snow and ice but i felt much more confident in the Q2. I didnt get stuck once and didnt really feel like the auto box was a hindrance. Having said this i understand why people would prefer a manual, especially in snow or tricky conditions as you can feather the clutch more.

Basicaly anyone saying you dont need 4x4 is probably right, but anyone saying that you are getting the same levels of grip or control in a front wheel drive car compared to a 4x4 is wrong. It is all about tires too, equipt your car for the conditions and you will be fine. The quattro system is noticably better than the front wheel drive equivalent, even on days like today, flooring the throttle from a junction equates to no wheel spin at all and just pulls you forward at an alarming rate.

This is my 1st quattro car and i would say that from now on i would try to get a car with this system, or similar from another manufacturer.
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Stability wise, possibly due to being lower down. The Q2 is higher up but not by much. To be honest the 19inch alloys and the Quattro system give it much more grip that really it negates any of the instability issues, not that i have had any. Now if i was comparing an A3 with like to like features, then you do have an argument. The thing is, SUVs like the Q2, in my opinion are not high enough to be much different stability wise. The A3 is hardly a sports car and is often criticised as a terrible drivers car. The XC40, X5 or Q5/Q7 would all have stability issues for sure as they are higher.
Someone doesn’t understand the difference between traction and grip.
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  #52  
Old 05.06.2019, 10:08
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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I think you'll find on the real AMG gearboxes whilst it is not exactly the same it is very similar


https://www.autoevolution.com/news/m...ms-112461.html


Although i don't really know and care even less

Ok, from now on I'll refer to your car as the "Street version of Lewis Hamilton's Formula One car with sufficient place for 2 golf bags"
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Old 05.06.2019, 10:40
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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Someone doesn’t understand the difference between traction and grip.
Care to elaborate or are you going to continue to make sarcastic, unhelpful comments? I gave my opinion. Sorry if it offerended you!
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  #54  
Old 05.06.2019, 10:49
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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Care to elaborate or are you going to continue to make sarcastic, unhelpful comments? I gave my opinion. Sorry if it offerended you!
I think it's because your post contained several factual inaccuracies.
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Old 05.06.2019, 10:52
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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I think it's because your post contained several factual inaccuracies.

such as? I will give you that my comment below wasnt the best!! Iv only just joined this forum but its pretty clear its a little bit of a "bullying" environment. Not seen so much negative comments and one up-manship on a forum before.

"To be honest the 19inch alloys and the Quattro system give it much more grip that really it negates any of the instability issues, not that i have had any"
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  #56  
Old 05.06.2019, 11:01
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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such as? I will give you that my comment below wasnt the best!!

"To be honest the 19inch alloys and the Quattro system give it much more grip that really it negates any of the instability issues, not that i have had any"
"The XC40, X5 or Q5/Q7 would all have stability issues for sure as they are higher"

Having a higher suspension does not mean 'stability issues' unless you are driving at high enough speeds (or cornering like a lunatic) to cause instability.

An XC40/X5/Q5/Q7 is nowhere near high enough to worry about that unless you are really trying to cause instability... higher suspension 4x4 off-roaders are used in the most inhospitable climates and toughest conditions in the world for good reasons.
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Old 05.06.2019, 11:08
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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"The XC40, X5 or Q5/Q7 would all have stability issues for sure as they are higher"

Having a higher suspension does not mean 'stability issues' unless you are driving at high enough speeds (or cornering like a lunatic) to cause instability.

An XC40/X5/Q5/Q7 is nowhere near high enough to worry about that unless you are really trying to cause instability... high suspension 4x4 off-roaders are used in the most inhospitable climates in the world fa good reason.
In comparion to my A3, which is the point i was making, i think you will find that there are stability differences! Even compared to my Q2, the XC40/X5/Q5/Q7, will all be different as they ride higher. Have you actually driven a car that sits higher up than a normal saloon before? or even watched any car reviews on a thing called "youtube"?? Every review of an SUV or higher up car talkes about stability and the facts that it doesnt corner as a normal car.
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Old 05.06.2019, 11:10
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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In comparion to my A3, which is the point i was making, i think you will find that there are stability differences! Even compared to my Q2, the XC40/X5/Q5/Q7, will all be different as they ride higher. Have you actually driven a car that sits higher up than a normal saloon before? or even watched any car reviews on a thing called "youtube"?? Every review of an SUV or higher up car talkes about stability and the facts that it doesnt corner as a normal car.
There will only be stability differences at high enough speeds to make it matter. Those cars are obviously not inherently unstable and are not that high.

Last edited by Chuff; 05.06.2019 at 12:20.
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  #59  
Old 05.06.2019, 11:22
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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An XC40/X5/Q5/Q7 is nowhere near high enough to worry about that unless you are really trying to cause instability... higher suspension 4x4 off-roaders are used in the most inhospitable climates and toughest conditions in the world for good reasons.
Lots of posers with money to burn is the general reason people buy 4x4 off roaders. Probably less than 1% of those actually go off road, none of those mentioned are actually any good off road.
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Old 05.06.2019, 11:28
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Re: Automatic v manual on Swiss Mountain Roads

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the Quattro system give it much more grip
Someone doesn’t understand the difference between traction and grip.
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Care to elaborate or are you going to continue to make sarcastic, unhelpful comments? I gave my opinion. Sorry if it offerended you!
Not sure why you thought it was sarcastic. It was simply pointing out your claim that the quattro system gives more grip, which it does not, and suggesting that you're probably confusing it with more traction, which it certainly does.
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