Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Transportation/driving  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 16.07.2019, 13:46
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 10,294
Groaned at 79 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 15,580 Times in 6,912 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
A friendly reminder about cycling on the Autobahn.

Due to recent events in the Gubrist tunnel
https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/zuerich...story/16856315
a friendly reminder that riding a bicycle on the Autobahn is strictly forbidden and also pretty dangerous.

Apart from that it is also forbidden when you see one of those other signs:

The Autobahn sign is the green one on right hand corner.

and is allowed when you see those, unless forbidden otherwise:


Be aware: If there is a cycle path (blue signs with the bicycle) or a cycle lane (yellow dashes) the cyclist must use it. It's the law Art. 46 SVG https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...index.html#a46
__________________
“That’s the second biggest monkey head I’ve ever seen!”

Last edited by aSwissInTheUS; 16.07.2019 at 16:24.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 16.07.2019, 15:25
NickGB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Zug
Posts: 668
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 794 Times in 336 Posts
NickGB has an excellent reputationNickGB has an excellent reputationNickGB has an excellent reputationNickGB has an excellent reputation
Re: A friendly reminder about cycling on the Autobahn.

I also think that it should be law that when a cycle lane exists it should be illegal to cycle on the road. Anyone try to drive around lake Zug recently and been stuck behind (almost always) an elderly gentleman in full lycra who thinks he is on the Tour de France. It's hugely frustrating for motorists, dangerous for cyclists and I have almost had several crashes recently when motorists have overtaken cyclists on blind corners, directly into my path.

Rant over
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank NickGB for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 16.07.2019, 15:45
krlock3's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,948
Groaned at 46 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 2,147 Times in 1,042 Posts
krlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A friendly reminder about cycling on the Autobahn.

Quote:
View Post
It's hugely frustrating for motorists, dangerous for cyclists and I have almost had several crashes recently when motorists have overtaken cyclists on blind corners, directly into my path.
If a car driver wants to overtake on a blind corner, that is bad driving on the part of the driver, not the cyclists.

Car drivers do not have a monopoly on road use.
Reply With Quote
The following 8 users would like to thank krlock3 for this useful post:
This user groans at krlock3 for this post:
  #4  
Old 16.07.2019, 16:02
Ace1's Avatar
A singular modality
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Morgins, VS
Posts: 7,449
Groaned at 264 Times in 179 Posts
Thanked 12,000 Times in 5,295 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A friendly reminder about cycling on the Autobahn.

Quote:
View Post
I also think that it should be law that when a cycle lane exists it should be illegal to cycle on the road.
Nononononononono.

Cyclists have every right to use the road, and cycle paths are often out of the way, shared with pedestrians, dogs, dawdlers etc. and not always with well maintained surfaces. Yes, motorways are clearly not appropriate, but in towns or smaller rural roads there's no reason at all to take that view.

I fought this (by always cycling on the road) for many years when I lived in Milton Keynes - they'd created a complete system of 'redways' for pedestrians and cyclists, but they would often double one's journey time for the reasons already mentioned.

The main 'grid' roads there were mostly dual carriageways with large roundabouts, but I could maintain an average of 20mph back then and was always very keen to minimise inconvenience by being positive and assertive with my road positioning and signalling. Only once or twice over the years did I get the moronic "get off the road, you don't pay road tax" attitude.

I should mention, by the way, how enlightened I found (and still do) French drivers in this respect, i.e. they respect the cyclists' right to be there and give them plenty of space when overtaking. The UK was a lot worse, and Switzerland's somewhere in the middle, IME.
__________________
Introduce yourself!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 16.07.2019, 16:23
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 10,294
Groaned at 79 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 15,580 Times in 6,912 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A friendly reminder about cycling on the Autobahn.

Quote:
View Post
I also think that it should be law that when a cycle lane exists it should be illegal to cycle on the road.
Quote:
View Post
Nononononononono.
Sorry my bad. Already fired up the almighty DeLorean and I am her, back in the future.

Art. 46 SVG https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...index.html#a46
Quote:
1 ) Cyclist must use cycle path and cycle lanes.
[...]
Just a quick check if I did not brake something: Still 26 cantons, CH not part of the EU nor the UN, and Michael Jordan is the 46th president of the United States?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 16.07.2019, 16:25
NickGB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Zug
Posts: 668
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 794 Times in 336 Posts
NickGB has an excellent reputationNickGB has an excellent reputationNickGB has an excellent reputationNickGB has an excellent reputation
Re: A friendly reminder about cycling on the Autobahn.

Quote:
View Post
If a car driver wants to overtake on a blind corner, that is bad driving on the part of the driver, not the cyclists.

Car drivers do not have a monopoly on road use.
Point one, I fully agree
Point two, I would argue that if there is a cycle lane, then the cars should have a monopoly on the road

In the case of Zug, there is a very wide, well maintained cycle lane. (In places) I'm always very patient sitting behind cyclists, as I'm a cyclist myself, but it seems the 'older generation' of motorists don't seem to understand the dangers of overtaking around blind corners. I think it would be easier to get cyclists onto the path rather than re-educate a population who might be....less amenable!

In short, I'm not advocating punishing cyclists, but trying to increase their safety.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank NickGB for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 16.07.2019, 16:33
krlock3's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,948
Groaned at 46 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 2,147 Times in 1,042 Posts
krlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A friendly reminder about cycling on the Autobahn.

We'll agree to disagree. I think that cyclists should have the same rights as other road users (except for the obvious exception of using motorways as pointed out by aSITUS).

Anything else is both an unneccesary degradation of cyclists rights and likely to lead to lots of confusion. Not to mention that in some places, cycling lanes are not that well maintained and would likely be a danger to road bikes.

Finally, I know the stretch between Zug and Arth quite well, having jogged it a number of times.... many stretches combine a cycling and pedestrian path... and although it is probably fine for general dual use, I believe that if fast road cyclists were forced to use it, it would create quite some danger for ambling pedestrians as well as frustration for the cyclists who would have to amp up and down their speed frequently.
__________________
krlock3.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank krlock3 for this useful post:
This user groans at krlock3 for this post:
  #8  
Old 16.07.2019, 17:09
Don Molina's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 820
Groaned at 38 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 1,157 Times in 496 Posts
Don Molina has a reputation beyond reputeDon Molina has a reputation beyond reputeDon Molina has a reputation beyond reputeDon Molina has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A friendly reminder about cycling on the Autobahn.

Quote:
View Post
Nononononononono.

Cyclists have every right to use the road, and cycle paths are often out of the way, shared with pedestrians, dogs, dawdlers etc. and not always with well maintained surfaces. Yes, motorways are clearly not appropriate, but in towns or smaller rural roads there's no reason at all to take that view.

I fought this (by always cycling on the road) for many years when I lived in Milton Keynes - they'd created a complete system of 'redways' for pedestrians and cyclists, but they would often double one's journey time for the reasons already mentioned.

The main 'grid' roads there were mostly dual carriageways with large roundabouts, but I could maintain an average of 20mph back then and was always very keen to minimise inconvenience by being positive and assertive with my road positioning and signalling. Only once or twice over the years did I get the moronic "get off the road, you don't pay road tax" attitude.

I should mention, by the way, how enlightened I found (and still do) French drivers in this respect, i.e. they respect the cyclists' right to be there and give them plenty of space when overtaking. The UK was a lot worse, and Switzerland's somewhere in the middle, IME.


So by the same token, if roads are not well maintained, I get the right to use other places with my car? WTF

Cars also share the road with other users, these are not excuses. Cars don't go on bus lanes when using their own lanes "doubles one's journey time".

Get a grip, and get on the freaking bicycle lane. Everybody paid to make one, USE IT.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Don Molina for this useful post:
The following 3 users groan at Don Molina for this post:
  #9  
Old 16.07.2019, 17:12
BasP72's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Adliswil (close to Zurich)
Posts: 1,657
Groaned at 63 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 1,328 Times in 664 Posts
BasP72 has a reputation beyond reputeBasP72 has a reputation beyond reputeBasP72 has a reputation beyond reputeBasP72 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A friendly reminder about cycling on the Autobahn.

Always cycle in the bicycle lane ? You mean where they shove all the snow in winter ?
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank BasP72 for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 16.07.2019, 17:15
krlock3's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,948
Groaned at 46 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 2,147 Times in 1,042 Posts
krlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A friendly reminder about cycling on the Autobahn.

Quote:
View Post
So by the same token, if roads are not well maintained, I get the right to use other places with my car? WTF

Cars also share the road with other users, these are not excuses. Cars don't go on bus lanes when using their own lanes "doubles one's journey time".

Get a grip, and get on the freaking bicycle lane. Everybody paid to make one, USE IT.

You have an aggressive avatar, an aggressive manner in your post, and your profile says that your interests are "Cars, gadgets, cars, cars, and cars"

I think i'll not take you too seriously.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank krlock3 for this useful post:
This user groans at krlock3 for this post:
  #11  
Old 16.07.2019, 17:21
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 13,298
Groaned at 405 Times in 318 Posts
Thanked 18,256 Times in 7,603 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A friendly reminder about cycling on the Autobahn.

Quote:
View Post

Get a grip, and get on the freaking bicycle lane. Everybody paid to make one, USE IT.
You mean to splash a bit of paint on the road so the cyclist has to (usually) cycle in the gutter.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 16.07.2019, 17:57
Don Molina's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 820
Groaned at 38 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 1,157 Times in 496 Posts
Don Molina has a reputation beyond reputeDon Molina has a reputation beyond reputeDon Molina has a reputation beyond reputeDon Molina has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A friendly reminder about cycling on the Autobahn.

Quote:
View Post
You mean to splash a bit of paint on the road so the cyclist has to (usually) cycle in the gutter.
Cost is not only that, it's also the fact that space that was some of shared space gets dedicated to only one group.

Everybody sharing less space pays for that.


Quote:
View Post
You have an aggressive avatar, an aggressive manner in your post, and your profile says that your interests are "Cars, gadgets, cars, cars, and cars"

I think i'll not take you too seriously.
Well, touche, but Ace1's was also quite entitled. Not using dedicated space because you don't feel like it, while everyone else has to respect you and live with your decisions is kind of a dick move
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 16.07.2019, 18:24
krlock3's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,948
Groaned at 46 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 2,147 Times in 1,042 Posts
krlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A friendly reminder about cycling on the Autobahn.

Quote:
View Post
Well, touche, but Ace1's was also quite entitled. Not using dedicated space because you don't feel like it, while everyone else has to respect you and live with your decisions is kind of a dick move
I see what your point is. The thing is, unless you are a road biker yourself, it may not be that easy to appreciate it from their perspective. If you ride road bikes at speed, then not all cycle lanes are simply always good enough, or appropriate, especially if they are shared with pedestrians as some are, and indeed as the Zug - Arth one sometimes is. Sometimes road bikes, so named probably because that is what they are meant for - are travelling at 40 to 50kmph ... cycle lanes are not always a solution for this, if they either leave the main road and wind their way through urban areas, or if the space is shared as I pointed out. And if you make the law uniform in this respect, it just would not work.

If we are just talking about giving part of the existing road, by the gutter, to bikes, then sure they should be used. It is not like we want to generally cycle outside those lanes. And of course, other less performance orientated bikes should try to prefer cycle lanes as much as possible in my opinion.

Feel free to PM me once and you can borrow one of my road bikes, we'll go for a ride, and I'll show you what I mean.
__________________
krlock3.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank krlock3 for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 16.07.2019, 19:44
Ace1's Avatar
A singular modality
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Morgins, VS
Posts: 7,449
Groaned at 264 Times in 179 Posts
Thanked 12,000 Times in 5,295 Posts
Ace1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond reputeAce1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A friendly reminder about cycling on the Autobahn.

Quote:
View Post

Well, touche, but Ace1's was also quite entitled. Not using dedicated space because you don't feel like it, while everyone else has to respect you and live with your decisions is kind of a dick move
You have no idea, clearly. I had already explained how much of a hassle it can be, and the redways in MK are particularly poor for cycling, detouring to take you over high bridges or through dingy dirty tunnels for every single roundabout, of which there were at least ten. MK's a big place, by area, so my 7.5km ride to the centre would take around 15 minutes by road, more like 30 minutes using the shared use paths.

Entitled? Too bloody right I'm entitled to use the roads.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 16.07.2019, 20:09
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Albisrieden
Posts: 4,627
Groaned at 102 Times in 71 Posts
Thanked 6,712 Times in 2,501 Posts
nickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A friendly reminder about cycling on the Autobahn.

I cycle to work each day - Albisrieden to Flurstrasse area. For about 6 months was making the ride from Albisrieden to Opfikon (via Limmatplatz, Kornhausbrücke, route 32, Bucheggplatz...).

Cycling infrastructure in Zürich is OK but pretty behind compared to the Netherlands. In particular, signage for cycle lanes can be poor in places, plus there are frequent situations where the cycle lane is in the middle of traffic. A notable example is Bucheggplatz as you cycle from the SRF studio and need to get to the Rötelstrasse turn off.

This website show some of the best examples of road planning bloopers.

https://bikeable.ch/map

The bloke in the story appears guilty of weapon-grade stupidity though.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 16.07.2019, 20:16
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 10,294
Groaned at 79 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 15,580 Times in 6,912 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A friendly reminder about cycling on the Autobahn.

Quote:
View Post
This website show some of the best examples of road planning bloopers.

https://bikeable.ch/map
One of Zurichs best is missing: A cycle route which leads through a Fahrverbot.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 16.07.2019, 20:34
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Albisrieden
Posts: 4,627
Groaned at 102 Times in 71 Posts
Thanked 6,712 Times in 2,501 Posts
nickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond reputenickatbasel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A friendly reminder about cycling on the Autobahn.

Quote:
View Post
One of Zurichs best is missing: A cycle route which leads through a Fahrverbot.
So upload a pic to the site.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 16.07.2019, 20:46
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 7,124
Groaned at 243 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 14,972 Times in 5,188 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A friendly reminder about cycling on the Autobahn.

Quote:
View Post
I see what your point is. The thing is, unless you are a road biker yourself, it may not be that easy to appreciate it from their perspective. If you ride road bikes at speed, then not all cycle lanes are simply always good enough, or appropriate, especially if they are shared with pedestrians as some are, and indeed as the Zug - Arth one sometimes is. Sometimes road bikes, so named probably because that is what they are meant for - are travelling at 40 to 50kmph ... cycle lanes are not always a solution for this, if they either leave the main road and wind their way through urban areas, or if the space is shared as I pointed out. And if you make the law uniform in this respect, it just would not work.

If we are just talking about giving part of the existing road, by the gutter, to bikes, then sure they should be used. It is not like we want to generally cycle outside those lanes. And of course, other less performance orientated bikes should try to prefer cycle lanes as much as possible in my opinion.

Feel free to PM me once and you can borrow one of my road bikes, we'll go for a ride, and I'll show you what I mean.
so if you are not willing to adapt your speed to the traffic, you can use another part of the road?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 16.07.2019, 22:02
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 10,937
Groaned at 166 Times in 144 Posts
Thanked 15,523 Times in 6,282 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A friendly reminder about cycling on the Autobahn.

Cyclists have every right to use the road. The also have a duty of courtesy to other roads users.

Motorists have every right to use the road. They also have a duty of courtesy to other road users.

However... I do see more cyclists (though still a minority) doing stupid and dangerous things than I see motorists doing stupid and dangerous things. I think it's due to motorists having to take a fairly rigourous test that includes the rules of the the road.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 17.07.2019, 09:35
Treverus's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Luxembourg
Posts: 11,269
Groaned at 279 Times in 237 Posts
Thanked 21,028 Times in 7,653 Posts
Treverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond reputeTreverus has a reputation beyond repute
Re: A friendly reminder about cycling on the Autobahn.

Quote:
View Post
I see what your point is. The thing is, unless you are a road biker yourself, it may not be that easy to appreciate it from their perspective.
I have a roadbike and I like cars… but I can assure you that not all road bikers go 40-50 km/h. Yes, no car should overtake in a blind corner, but I have seen myself, a rather less agressive driver, getting increasingly annoyed by middle aged overweight guys wearing spandex and going 20 literally meters next to a damn cycling lane specifically made for them. But its not for them, obviously cause they have a carbon fiber road bike...

Yes, traffic is about tolerance towards others, especially weaker members. But that includes a healthy dose of self-awareness. And I must say that on average I see cyclists break by far the most traffic rules, even basic ones like running red lights or rushing through pedestrian areas.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Treverus for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fined for tailgating on autobahn Snoopy Transportation/driving 92 02.07.2019 20:10
Cycling on the road tommyleeselbow Transportation/driving 28 05.07.2015 08:59
Initiative for 140 speed limit on the Autobahn Mark75 Transportation/driving 28 06.02.2014 12:07
Police roadside control ...... on the autobahn. TiMow Transportation/driving 22 23.05.2013 08:59
Driving on German Autobahn Anwar Transportation/driving 33 12.10.2010 23:15


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0