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Old 06.08.2019, 15:34
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Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" valid in CH?

I have a Dutch friend who will visit us soon. He has a Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" which also states "International Certificate for Operators of Pleasure Craft".

Do any of our Dutch readers have experience of the use of such a license on Swiss waterways?

Thanks!
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Old 06.08.2019, 16:09
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Re: Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" valid in CH?

It is valid.

But its use on Lake Constance/Bodensee is limited to no more than 30 days in each year. Because of this a "Ferienpatent Bodensee" is needed on Lake Constance.

http://schifffahrt.bav-faq.ch/5/8?lang=de
http://www.unece.org/trans/main/sc3/...lution_40.html
https://www.sg.ch/verkehr/schifffahr...erausweis.html
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Old 07.08.2019, 09:12
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Re: Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" valid in CH?

So just to complete this thread; our local service de navigation confirms the above and my insurance company accepts coverage when my friend is using my boat.

Thanks a lot!
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Old 07.08.2019, 14:39
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Re: Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" valid in CH?

My son has a South African boating license, inland waterways and deep sea, and he's used his on Lake Lugano many times without problem. Once he was stopped for a check by police while they were body boarding or something, all very friendly and after a quick chat they were satisfied and left. I'd imagine any EU license will not be a problem at all.
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Old 07.08.2019, 15:35
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Re: Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" valid in CH?

I've had quite the discussion with a friend whose been going through issues with the licensing here lately.

Except for neighbouring countries they will accept a foreign certificate (France, Germany, Italy) and you can change your certificate for a Swiss one if you are resident here.

For non neighbouring countries they will accept an international certificate of competence if you are non-resident. If you are resident in Switzerland you need to do the Swiss License.

I know a couple of sailing/motorboat instructors who have had to do the certificates new here just to be able to sail or drive a boat in Switzerland and my mate who I discussed this with is in the process of doing it at the moment despite having been an instructor in the past and holding an International Certificate of Competence.
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Old 07.08.2019, 15:38
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Re: Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" valid in CH?

LuganoPirate is correct, but your son's license is only valid if he is a temporary visitor (like my Dutch friend) and not a permanent resident.

The only exchangeable boating permits are from Austria, Germany, Italy and France.
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Old 07.08.2019, 15:58
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Re: Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" valid in CH?

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My son has a South African boating license, inland waterways and deep sea, and he's used his on Lake Lugano many times without problem.
Which is not a real surprise as for visitors a UNECE Regulation 40 boating license is o.k and the South African one is such a license.

http://schifffahrt.bav-faq.ch/5/8?lang=de
http://www.unece.org/trans/main/sc3/...lution_40.html
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Old 10.08.2019, 10:14
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Re: Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" valid in CH?

Sorry folks, I missed this one the other day. I wrote a long blog post on precisely this subject a little while ago (and nothing has changed):

https://cloudninesailing.ch/is-my-qu...ion-valid-for/

For your Dutch friend and other visitors, the ICC is fine providing he also has a CEVNI endorsement (i.e. for inland waterways). NB it does need to be an actual formal ICC certificate and not just the local qualification that qualifies him/you to obtain an ICC.

As mentioned above, if you are resident here, you need to hold the Swiss qualification (D-Schein/permis for sail, A for motor) to operate a vessel over 15 m2 sail area or 8 kW engine power (12 m2/4.4 kW on the Bodensee) legally. If you start your training while resident, you need to go straight for the D/A certificate. If you hold a foreign certificate before moving here, you have 12 months' grace during which you can use that qualification/ICC (rather like a car driving licence), after which you still have to take the Swiss exam. Even for the surrounding countries, only 2 are accepted as a direct swap for all certificates; the other two require you to take a practical exam for sail (and I'm afraid I forget which 2 are which off the top of my head - you can check with your canton's Schiffahrtskontrolle/Office de navigation).

HTH
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Old 10.08.2019, 10:28
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Re: Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" valid in CH?

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Sorry folks, I missed this one the other day. I wrote a long blog post on precisely this subject a little while ago (and nothing has changed):
Just re-read that, but it reminds me of a related question that I've thought about but not investigated - can I, as a Swiss resident holding an ICC, charter a boat on the foreign side of a shared lake, e.g. from Evian on Lake Leman, and legally use it even on the Swiss side of the notional border?

Fairly sure that the French would let me do it, but would I be legal according to Swiss rules if I happened to be stopped and checked?
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Old 10.08.2019, 12:21
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Re: Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" valid in CH?

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Just re-read that, but it reminds me of a related question that I've thought about but not investigated - can I, as a Swiss resident holding an ICC, charter a boat on the foreign side of a shared lake, e.g. from Evian on Lake Leman, and legally use it even on the Swiss side of the notional border?

Fairly sure that the French would let me do it, but would I be legal according to Swiss rules if I happened to be stopped and checked?

That's a really good question. Would I be right to assume you have an ICC based on an RYA qualification, with CEVNI, but no Swiss ticket?
If that's the case my guess would be that it would depend on which bits of the lake are defined as territorial waters. As long as you are outside Swiss territory you should be OK. But I don't have a definitive official answer on it
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Old 10.08.2019, 12:38
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Re: Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" valid in CH?

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That's a really good question. Would I be right to assume you have an ICC based on an RYA qualification, with CEVNI, but no Swiss ticket?
If that's the case my guess would be that it would depend on which bits of the lake are defined as territorial waters. As long as you are outside Swiss territory you should be OK. But I don't have a definitive official answer on it
Thanks anyway.

I have a GB-issued ICC, tested under the auspices of IYT, not linked to RYA, and not specifically with CEVNI.

One of these days I'll get round to giving it a go, but after a couple of weeks in the Med last month (from Mallorca) Lake Geneva doesn't have quite the same pull.

Edit: Of course, I really ought to just get my Swiss licence, I suppose. Do you know anyone who does that from the Montreux/Vevey/Villeneuve area?
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Old 10.08.2019, 14:43
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Re: Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" valid in CH?

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Just re-read that, but it reminds me of a related question that I've thought about but not investigated - can I, as a Swiss resident holding an ICC, charter a boat on the foreign side of a shared lake, e.g. from Evian on Lake Leman, and legally use it even on the Swiss side of the notional border?
That might work in case of Lago Maggiore, Lago Lugano, and Lake Geneva. The case of Lake Constance is special as there is no defined border and the status of the lake is handled by a multinational contract between Austria, Germany, and Switzerland (henceforth the "need" for "Ferienpatent Bodensee").

There are binational contracts for the other lakes, so look into them (As alsways with Swiss law you can change the language on the very top. I linked to the local language version):

In case of Lake Geneva you will need a permit valid at your place of residence (if resident of France or Switzerland). If you have no residency in either country the permit must be valid in the country the vessel is registered or stationed (in case registration is not necessary). If the vessel is not registered in France or Switzerland, nor stationed regularly in either country you must have a permit valid in the country where the vessel was watered into Lake Geneva.
Art. 6 Accord entre le Conseil fédéral suisse et le Gouvernement de la République française concernant la navigation sur le Léman https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classifi.../index.html#a6

Same goes for Lago Maggiore and Lago Lugano with residency, registration, etc. in Italy or Switzerland respectively Art. 6 Convenzione fra la Svizzera e l'Italia per la disciplina della navigazione sul lago Maggiore e sul lago di Lugano https://www.admin.ch/opc/it/classifi.../index.html#a6

To answer your question: No this does not work. As a Swiss resident, if your foreign permit is no longer valid in Switzerland, it is no longer valid on the other side as well
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Old 12.08.2019, 07:49
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Re: Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" valid in CH?

I have the Swiss A/D permits and the RYA ICC for Powerboat II with the RYA CEVNI and VHF endorsements.

I have used my ICC to charter boats in Spain and France and I have always wanted to charter in Croatia (hopefully next summer!).

Interestingly, I discovered that if you have the Swiss A permit, it is sufficient for boat charter in Croatia but you need an ICC from your canton.
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Old 12.08.2019, 23:32
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Re: Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" valid in CH?

I'm currently going through the minefield of getting Swiss Certification despite having been a sailing and motorboat instructor in a past life and holding an ICC.

Watersports in Switzerland are a ridiculous minefield. It appears to be just as easy to get and register a gun than put a boat on the water here! I can not understand how a sailing boat requires more beurocracy and qualifactions than a weapon!

We've recently put a Dart 18 on the water (no need for a "schein"), but the boat needs to have a registered place to stay with a contract for that place. The contract has to be the same name and address as the person the boat is registered under... So you can't just keep a laser in the back garden and go for a sail whenever you want here.

I'm seriously thinking about writing to Swiss Sailing as the obstacles to getting on the water here are quite frankly ridiculous. From a vehicular perspective I would consider a sailing boat to be comparable with a bicycle but the registration procedure is more difficult than registering a car! In Switzerland it's deemed a lethal weapon however!
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Old 21.08.2019, 15:03
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Re: Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" valid in CH?

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We've recently put a Dart 18 on the water (no need for a "schein"), but the boat needs to have a registered place to stay with a contract for that place. The contract has to be the same name and address as the person the boat is registered under... So you can't just keep a laser in the back garden and go for a sail whenever you want here.
Maybe not in the land of eternal youth. But in CantonLucerne you can store up to two boats on private ground.
http://srl.lu.ch/frontend/versions/2...nload_pdf_file Also people in Canton Zurich store their vessels on their own property. Otherwise nobody could store their dinghy subject to registration (longer than 2.5 meters).
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Old 21.08.2019, 15:37
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Re: Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" valid in CH?

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We've recently put a Dart 18 on the water (no need for a "schein"), but the boat needs to have a registered place to stay with a contract for that place. The contract has to be the same name and address as the person the boat is registered under... So you can't just keep a laser in the back garden and go for a sail whenever you want here.

In canton Zurich you can just register "at home"
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Old 21.08.2019, 15:38
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Re: Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" valid in CH?

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Interestingly, I discovered that if you have the Swiss A permit, it is sufficient for boat charter in Croatia but you need an ICC from your canton.

The trouble with that is that you need the Swiss Hochseeschein to get a Swiss ICC. Your ICC based on PB2 should work, depending on the size/type of boat. But also be aware that in Croatia you need a VHF licence to charter as well
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Old 21.08.2019, 21:01
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Re: Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" valid in CH?

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The trouble with that is that you need the Swiss Hochseeschein to get a Swiss ICC. Your ICC based on PB2 should work, depending on the size/type of boat. But also be aware that in Croatia you need a VHF licence to charter as well
Thanks, I already have it (from Gib)!
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Old 22.08.2019, 00:28
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Re: Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" valid in CH?

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. But also be aware that in Croatia you need a VHF licence to charter as well
Since when? It's been a while since I last chartered there, like maybe twelve years, but we didn't need one then.
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Old 22.08.2019, 05:58
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Re: Dutch boating license "Klein Vaarbewijs I" valid in CH?

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Since when? It's been a while since I last chartered there, like maybe twelve years, but we didn't need one then.

It was definitely in force 10 years ago
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