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Old 06.10.2019, 10:11
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Why I will always drive before being found on a train

You just never know if you will be forced to get off.
https://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/st...erden-18244912
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Old 06.10.2019, 11:24
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Re: Why I will always drive before being found on a train

It was packed last night until Bellinzona, had to take the train as flights to Lugano are cancelled.

Tom
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Old 06.10.2019, 13:12
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Re: Why I will always drive before being found on a train

Travelling with SBB is interesting, no doubt. Either they tell you to get off or they don't bother to stop at your trainstation.

30 to 40 people per carriage?! <<dass mindestens 30 Personen pro Waggon den Zug verlassen müssten>> that would be how many in total?
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Old 06.10.2019, 13:16
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Re: Why I will always drive before being found on a train

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Travelling with SBB is interesting, no doubt. Either they tell you to get off or they don't bother to stop at your trainstation.

30 to 40 people per carriage?! <<dass mindestens 30 Personen pro Waggon den Zug verlassen müssten>> that would be how many in total?
On top of that the next train was overfilled and had to do the same.
It was not a good day to play Greta.
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Old 06.10.2019, 13:35
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Re: Why I will always drive before being found on a train

Wow, that must have been very annoying for anyone who really needed or wanted to arrive as scheduled.

Fortunately, this kind of situation is not common. One of the passengers is quoted as saying:
Ich fahre seit 40 Jahren ÖV – sowas habe ich noch nie erlebt!
I've been travelling on public transport for 40 years, and I've never experienced anything like this!

Given that this was a most unusual situation, it seems that the train staff reacted very well.
Wir riskieren keine Menschenleben. Unser Zugpersonal ist verpflichtet, jederzeit alle Durchgänge und Notausgänge freizuhalten.
We won't risk anyone's life. Our train staff are obliged to keep the passages and the emergency exits free at all times.
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Old 06.10.2019, 13:37
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Re: Why I will always drive before being found on a train

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On top of that the next train was overfilled and had to do the same.
It was not a good day to play Greta.
Use public transport! But we're not able to provide enough trains.
Use renewable energy! But we can't allow you to install it on your premises, solar and windturbines are too ugly and not traditional.

I kind of like it, that this happened before the elections, shows how easy talk is
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Old 06.10.2019, 14:04
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Re: Why I will always drive before being found on a train

I think something similar happened to me in Bern last week. The Zytglogge is torn up right now so they run a replacement bus service for some of the trams. Unfortunately, they only run one bus on the same schedule to replace the tram. Obviously trams hold far more people than buses so it's a bit of a mess.

The bus was really full, and at one stop the driver shut off the bus. There was no announcement made. Everyone kind of looked at each other, but a number of people who seemed in a hurry got off. After several minutes and plenty of people disembarking, the driver started the bus again and kept going. The gal next to me and I guessed that the bus was overloaded so the driver simply shut it off until it was not overloaded any more.

As for the train, 30-40 people per carriage is a lot. How generous of SBB to give them 5 Franc food vouchers.
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Old 06.10.2019, 23:17
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Re: Why I will always drive before being found on a train

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Wow, that must have been very annoying for anyone who really needed or wanted to arrive as scheduled.

Fortunately, this kind of situation is not common. One of the passengers is quoted as saying:
Ich fahre seit 40 Jahren ÖV – sowas habe ich noch nie erlebt!
I've been travelling on public transport for 40 years, and I've never experienced anything like this!

Given that this was a most unusual situation, it seems that the train staff reacted very well.
Wir riskieren keine Menschenleben. Unser Zugpersonal ist verpflichtet, jederzeit alle Durchgänge und Notausgänge freizuhalten.
We won't risk anyone's life. Our train staff are obliged to keep the passages and the emergency exits free at all times.
Both of these points are important - it rarely happens (unlike planes, which are frequently overbooked) and it's to meet safety requirements (in the tunnels they have a maximum passenger limit in order to enable a safe evacuation in case of emergencies).

Also, heading south by car on the first day of the school holidays: Gotthard Tunnel traffic jams, anyone? I enjoy looking over them as I zip by in a train ...
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Old 07.10.2019, 07:14
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Re: Why I will always drive before being found on a train

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You just never know if you will be forced to get off.
https://www.20min.ch/schweiz/news/st...erden-18244912
So you will never travel by train because it was overcrowded on one specific stretch that has strict regulations?

I guess you will never travel by plane again if your flight is cancelled. Or by car if it ever breaks down or gets in a heavy traffic tram.

It hardly ever happens in general.. people need to plan their trips better so that you aren't coming home on the busiest stretch of railway in Switzerland at the same time everyone else is.
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Old 07.10.2019, 08:21
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Re: Why I will always drive before being found on a train

What are you talking about. One out of thousands of daily trains had a problem and so that is a reason for you to only ever drive?

And in the other thread about the environment, people talk about the need for attitude change.... human nature, man!!!
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Old 07.10.2019, 10:01
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Re: Why I will always drive before being found on a train

Why don't SBB just make carriages reservation only on routes through the Gottard at busy times? It's not rocket science and airlines seem to manage it everyday for every flight.

It's not like you hear an EasyJet pilot announce, en-route that the plane has too many people on board, it can't get over the Alps but parachutes have thoughtfully been provided for 30 passengers and would they please jump from the rear door, leaving their hand-luggage and duty free behind onboard.
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Old 07.10.2019, 10:10
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Re: Why I will always drive before being found on a train

What happened is actually normal: due to safety grounds standing passengers are not allowed inside the tunnel. Given that in Switzerland there is no seat reservation, it can happen that hundreds of people board the same train and fill every possible space, but this is incompatible with safety in modern tunnels. It happened many times already and will happen again because SBB must respect the rules. Overcrowding happens on other lines as well, but it's just not a problem like in new tunnels.

SBB is doing something to cope with this known issue; as an example, there is an IC from Zurich to Lugano that leaves a few minutes before the EC from Zurich to Milan, and the latter is usually more congested due to international travellers. Using these IC trains may help Swiss people to find a seat - guys, avoid EC unless you must travel abroad, do yourself a favour! Also, during holidays (e.g. Easter) there are extra trains, or two trains are coupled and travel together. Works on the lines will allow double-decker trains in the future, if needed. The opening of the Ceneri tunnel next year will see the doubling of EC trains (one every hour, from 6 to 12 couples per day).

SBB is also facing some difficulties. There are works on the line and they create instability and limit capacity. The tunnel must be shared with freight, and adding extra passenger trains is not easy (actually, freight is what justified the tunnel!). New trainsets have just started being delivered. Speed performance on the new line is so good that demand doubled in the last 3 years.

Burocracy also plays a role. Sometimes there are two trainsets running but only one is in service and the other is closed. The reason? I suspect it's the cost of the restaurant staff and the second train manager. Sometimes the second trainset is open, but limited to Lugano, some other times stays closed from Milano to Zurich, I have the impression that SBB is trying to deal with the problem while Trenitalia does not give a darn.

People sometimes do not help either. An example is the mass of ticinese students studying at ETH, usually taking the last available train on Sunday evening to spend more time as possible at home, and then complaining on TicinoOnLine/20min that the train was full. I know it's not the ideal solution, but since you know it will be like this, just leave after lunch, can't you really?

As always in structured services, capacity is not and can not be designed to fulfill exceptional peak demand. Zurich alone has 400'000 inhabitants and a trainset can seat a little more than 400 people. If one Saturday morning it's raining heavily, there is no way 10k people will reach Tessin by 10 am, sorry. The road Gotthard tunnel has the very same issue, but daily instead of every two weeks - I drove twice from Como to Zurich, I will always take the train before being found on A2 again...

I hope this is an informative overview. Short summary: situation will improve in late 2020, but it is unlikely to disappear.
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Old 07.10.2019, 10:45
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Re: Why I will always drive before being found on a train

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I hope this is an informative overview. Short summary: situation will improve in late 2020, but it is unlikely to disappear.
It won't ever (probably).

Every service provider must balance between prodiving a good service (usually that means "less than perfect") and remaining competitive. Unless everybody is willing to pay premium subsidies/prices in order to get perfect service, those problems will stay. They may be less prominent, but they won't go away completely.
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Old 07.10.2019, 11:47
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Re: Why I will always drive before being found on a train

Anybody remember how SBB used to run relief trains on the Gotthard line on the days they were expecting heavy patronage? These trains would generally leave Zürich a couple of minutes ahead of the timetabled train and so help reduce the crowds in Zürich and at intermediate stops.
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Old 07.10.2019, 12:36
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Re: Why I will always drive before being found on a train

They still do it. Last time I used one of them was on Easter. Both regular and relief trains were full...

https://www.tio.ch/ticino/attualita/...squa-in-ticino
https://www.tio.ch/ticino/attualita/...r-e-dal-ticino

Last edited by venetian; 07.10.2019 at 12:55.
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Old 07.10.2019, 13:22
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Re: Why I will always drive before being found on a train

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Anybody remember how SBB used to run relief trains on the Gotthard line on the days they were expecting heavy patronage? These trains would generally leave Zürich a couple of minutes ahead of the timetabled train and so help reduce the crowds in Zürich and at intermediate stops.
That requires enough spare "material" (trains but also personnel) and time to run tow trains in the same spot - the tighter the schedule the less this is feasable.
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Old 07.10.2019, 14:13
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Re: Why I will always drive before being found on a train

Well the CFF outclassed themselves this weekend in the Geneva area. They completely scrapped all the local trains replacing them by buses, so when I arrived on Saturday at the airport I thought I would catch one of the replacement RE trains to Coppet and walk back to Mies (the CFF's notion of a connection to a bus in Coppet was that you had to wait 20 minutes).
Well the CFF divided the number of trains between Geneva Airport and Lausanne by two, effectively running a shuttle service of RE trains.
In their genius wisdom, they also divided the lengths of the few trains that operated by two as well, thereby reducing the capacity to about a quarter of normal. I know it was the weekend and maybe the idea was to give weekend travellers a taste of what it's like to travel in rush-hour during the week, but frankly it was totally unnecessary.
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Old 07.10.2019, 17:09
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Re: Why I will always drive before being found on a train

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Why don't SBB just make carriages reservation only on routes through the Gottard at busy times? It's not rocket science and airlines seem to manage it everyday for every flight.
Maybe a dumb question - if you hold a GA can you reserve a seat whenever you want? I know you can reserve a seat if you buy a specific ticket online or at the counter.
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Old 07.10.2019, 17:30
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Re: Why I will always drive before being found on a train

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Maybe a dumb question - if you hold a GA can you reserve a seat whenever you want? I know you can reserve a seat if you buy a specific ticket online or at the counter.

Yes, if you pay
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Old 07.10.2019, 17:38
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Re: Why I will always drive before being found on a train

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Yes, if you pay
alternatively, if you buy an SBB uniform you can kick any number of people off the train, citing safety reasons. Then you can sit in their seat yourself.

oderrrr?
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