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  #21  
Old 08.01.2020, 19:59
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Re: Road accident - need help and advice

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HE LOST CONTROL OF HIS CAR, irrespective of the circumstances you have to be in control of your vehicle and adapt to the circumstances. If ice is to be expected then drive accordingly.
So by your definition, an accident doesn’t exist? It is always deliberate?
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Old 08.01.2020, 20:13
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Re: Road accident - need help and advice

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So by your definition, an accident doesn’t exist? It is always deliberate?
I don’t think ‘deliberate’ is the operative word in this case. The law here seems to look at who is to blame for an accident. Often it’s apportioned between the parties involved. Deliberate actions would suggest a criminal intent.
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Old 08.01.2020, 20:37
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Re: Road accident - need help and advice

Sure it is an accident, but pure accidents don't happen usually they are a long chain of things that end up in an accident.


The guy lost control of his vehicle. PERIOD, his fault !



You have to adapt your driving to prevailing circumstances.



The speed limit may be 50kmh but if you are driving outside a school at 50kmh at the time the kids are let out and you hit one, even if it is not your fault directly, you will be guilty as you have not adapted your driving to the prevailing conditions, ie lot of people, drive slower....
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  #24  
Old 08.01.2020, 20:58
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Re: Road accident - need help and advice

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So by your definition, an accident doesn’t exist? It is always deliberate?
Among my riding buddies, that is in fact our understanding, i.e. if you have an accident, it is always your fault, and we ride thus.

Tom
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  #25  
Old 08.01.2020, 23:53
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Re: Road accident - need help and advice

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The typical response would be that you have to drive in such a way that you can be sure to stop on time. That argument won´t wash.
Exactly this - happened to me. Was alone on road no other cars involved and no one got hurt but my car had to be removed. Insurance sorted those costs but I got a fine for not driving appropriately. I had zero priors so got away with the fine. This was 8 years ago and it was 800 CHF.
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Old 09.01.2020, 06:48
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Re: Road accident - need help and advice

So a tyre blows due to some small unseen bits of debris on the road and there is a minor accident, the vehicle is in perfect condition and the driver driving 100% correct, who will the police blame?
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  #27  
Old 09.01.2020, 08:18
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Re: Road accident - need help and advice

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The typical response would be that you have to drive in such a way that you can be sure to stop on time. That argument won´t wash.
Yup, if he skidded on the ice then it is likely that the OP did not realise the car in front was no longer moving and left it too late to brake and so slammed them on, causing the wheels to lock and skid. Gradual and progressive braking would not have done this.

It's a common scenario in heavy traffic and constantly changing traffic lights where your attention easily wanders.
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Old 09.01.2020, 08:25
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Re: Road accident - need help and advice

I am actually surprised that the lady chose to call the police even when there was no physical damage to anyone. unless the parties start arguing who is at fault. but if the party at fault accepts their mistake, then it is only the insurances involved.




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  #29  
Old 09.01.2020, 08:35
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Re: Road accident - need help and advice

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I am actually surprised that the lady chose to call the police even when there was no physical damage to anyone. unless the parties start arguing who is at fault. but if the party at fault accepts their mistake, then it is only the insurances involved.




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lots of people call the police after an accident, it stops a lot of grief later down the line when the other party suddenly changes their mind and blames you

the swiss even more so, especially if they hit an auslander they have a misconception that the police will always blame the foreigner.
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  #30  
Old 09.01.2020, 08:50
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Re: Road accident - need help and advice

What are the consequences with your insurance company if you accept blame? Possibly in writing or on a phone video?
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  #31  
Old 09.01.2020, 09:12
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Re: Road accident - need help and advice

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I am actually surprised that the lady chose to call the police even when there was no physical damage to anyone. unless the parties start arguing who is at fault. but if the party at fault accepts their mistake, then it is only the insurances involved.

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As far as I am aware it is considered best practise (I can't say for sure if it's a legal requirement or not) that the police must be called in the case of a car accident. It means they can be properly recorded and dealt with without any misinterpretation or distortion of facts later down the line.

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What are the consequences with your insurance company if you accept blame? Possibly in writing or on a phone video?
Depending on your insurance contract and excess you will pay a certain amount of money and your premiums will likely go up.
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  #32  
Old 09.01.2020, 09:39
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Re: Road accident - need help and advice

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Depending on your insurance contract and excess you will pay a certain amount of money and your premiums will likely go up.
I think they mean more from a legal point of view, as your insurance specifically say never admit liability
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  #33  
Old 09.01.2020, 10:39
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Re: Road accident - need help and advice

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I think they mean more from a legal point of view, as your insurance specifically say never admit liability
Well, I'd say not accepting blame if a person know full well it's their fault is just a douchebag thing to do anyway and if somehow they are extremely lucky/deceptive and the blame goes to the other person then congrats, that person probably just ruined someone else's month.
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Old 09.01.2020, 10:42
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Re: Road accident - need help and advice

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Well, I'd say not accepting blame if you know full well it's your fault is just a douchebag thing to do anyway and if somehow you are extremely ucky/deceptive and the blame goes to the other person then congrats, you just ruined someones month.
Not admitting blame is not the same as being deceptive.

Most insurance companies advise that parties exchange only details at the scene of the accident and don't enter into any kind of admission or discussion.

Nothing deceptive about it. Just procedure.

EDIT - this gives a bit of context.
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  #35  
Old 09.01.2020, 10:55
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Re: Road accident - need help and advice

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Not admitting blame is not the same as being deceptive.

Most insurance companies advise that parties exchange only details at the scene of the accident and don't enter into any kind of admission or discussion.

Nothing deceptive about it. Just procedure.

EDIT - this gives a bit of context.
why not the parties can enter into admission if its clear who is at fault and the party at fault accepts it. every one has empty accident forms in their cars which the parties are expected to fill and sign (which obviously makes it clear who accepts the fault). in such cases, i dont see the need to involve police.
does the insurance company mandate that the party at fault is not allowed to admit and the insurance will pay only if the fault is judged by police? if true, police will be called for every little accident on the road which is impossible for them.
in my view, only when there is a dispute , the police will need to be involved.


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Old 09.01.2020, 10:57
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Re: Road accident - need help and advice

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every one has empty accident forms in their cars which the parties are expected to fill and sign (which obviously makes it clear who accepts the fault).
No, they do not normally indicate who accepts the fault.

Tom
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Old 09.01.2020, 11:03
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Re: Road accident - need help and advice

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why not the parties can enter into admission if its clear who is at fault and the party at fault accepts it. every one has empty accident forms in their cars which the parties are expected to fill and sign (which obviously makes it clear who accepts the fault). in such cases, i dont see the need to involve police.
does the insurance company mandate that the party at fault is not allowed to admit and the insurance will pay only if the fault is judged by police? if true, police will be called for every little accident on the road which is impossible for them.
in my view, only when there is a dispute , the police will need to be involved.


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The insurance forms just detail the facts of the accident.

No, you don't need to call the police for every minor bump, you just exchange details and complete the form. All of it can (and should) be done without admitting blame by either party.

Go ahead and do it, though, if you feel the need.
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Old 09.01.2020, 11:22
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Re: Road accident - need help and advice

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Exactly this - happened to me. Was alone on road no other cars involved and no one got hurt but my car had to be removed. Insurance sorted those costs but I got a fine for not driving appropriately. I had zero priors so got away with the fine. This was 8 years ago and it was 800 CHF.

More or less the same happened to me. Accident because of skidding on ice. No other cars involved. Police was called by the only people who stopped and came to look for/after me: two policemen on their way home after work - lucky me and I mean that. Police had to write a report because I had to spend a night at the hospital otherwise they would not have done it > no report > no cost, no fine. Thus, cost including fine for "not being in control of my car" was approx. CHF 1000. 2 years on probation. No license ban (Kt. Aargau).

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  #39  
Old 09.01.2020, 11:32
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Re: Road accident - need help and advice

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The insurance forms just detail the facts of the accident.

No, you don't need to call the police for every minor bump, you just exchange details and complete the form. All of it can (and should) be done without admitting blame by either party.

Go ahead and do it, though, if you feel the need.
who judges then who is at fault for minor bumps? i thought it is between the 2 insurance companies to sort this out once the forms are filled by both parties and signed.
And by your post, are you suggesting it is better to call the police even for minor bumps (especially if you think you are not at fault)


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Old 09.01.2020, 11:33
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Re: Road accident - need help and advice

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More or less the same happened to me. Accident because of skidding on ice. No other cars involved. Police was called by the only people who stopped and came to look after me: two policemen on their way home after work - lucky me and I mean that. Police had to write a report because I had to spend a night at the hospital otherwise they would not have done it > no report > no cost, no fine. Thus, cost including fine for "not being in control of my car" was approx. CHF 1000. 2 years on probation. No license ban (Kt. Aargau).
Yes of couse if there is a physical damage to anyone, police must be definitely involved, in my view.


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