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-   -   Road accident - need help and advice (https://www.englishforum.ch/transportation-driving/296042-road-accident-need-help-advice.html)

AndreyMas 08.01.2020 15:22

Road accident - need help and advice
 
Hello,

I had a road accident in Zurich canton today.

I approached a crossroad and push the car brake on the red signal of traffic light. Unfortunatelly the was ice. The car didn't stop and hit another car which turned left. The speed was minimal. People were not hurt. The damages of both cars are not significant. Both cars are insured. Lady from the damaged car called police and they registered the accident.

Now, I'm worried what kind of consequencies it will entail in terms of fines for this accident. Can the authorities disqulify me as a driver? What is a procedure for such cases? Did you have such experience? What would you recommend?

Thank you in advance.

Guest 08.01.2020 15:55

Re: Road accident - need help and advice
 
It would be impossible to say for sure as we don't know the full details.

If nobody has been hurt and it just a fender-bender, the insurance companies will deal with the damage.

Going through a red light may incur further action if the police deem appropriate. Were there any witnesses?

AndreyMas 08.01.2020 16:00

Quote:

It would be impossible to say for sure as we don't know the full details.

If nobody has been hurt and it just a fender-bender, the insurance companies will deal with the damage.

Going through a red light may incur further action if the police deem appropriate. Were there any witnesses?
Yes, there was a witness who confirmed that I passed the red light.
It is first accident with police involvement that's why I'm worried about consequences….

Guest 08.01.2020 16:08

Re: Road accident - need help and advice
 
If the police were called, they will make the report that you lost control of your vehicle, depending on circumstances you will get a fine and maybe a driving ban for 1 - 3 months.

Island Monkey 08.01.2020 16:12

Re: Road accident - need help and advice
 
Can’t imagine anything will happen, will just be sorted out by insurance.

Some idiot drove into me on a roundabout this summer (no ice as an excuse)... he called the police as he was a stress head and thought it was my fault (it wasn’t, his insurance paid out no questions asked)...... the police came but just helped out with filling out insurance accident report, they weren’t interested otherwise as it was minor!

Guest 08.01.2020 16:17

Re: Road accident - need help and advice
 
Nobody here knows what they will do, they might just look at the accident and not deem it your fault yet offc still your responsibility but shit happens. They might deem you drove to fast for the circumstances, they might look at the red light for which you did not stop, they might give you a fine, they might deem it dangerous driving and revoke your license for some months (including a hefty fine).

All you can do for now is wait and see what lands on your doormat.

aSwissInTheUS 08.01.2020 16:21

Re: Road accident - need help and advice
 
A likely scenario:

A fine of approx CHF 250 based on Art. 90 Abs. 1 SVG and Art. 31 Abs. 1 SVG
Curt fees of approx CHF 200
Police fees of approx CHF 100
https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/pd/de/i...enpflicht.html

A warning from the driving license authority, valid for the next 2 years Art, 16a SVG.
Which comes with bill for CHF 250.
https://stva.zh.ch/internet/sicherhe...hr/GEBama.html

OR

As it was a red traffic light it could also end with this:
A suspened monetary penalty of approx 10 day plus a fine of approx CHF 600 based on Art. 90 Abs. 2 SVG, Art. 27 Abs. 1 SVG (and Art. 68 SSV), Art. 31 Abs. 1 SVG
Curt fees of approx CHF 430
Police fees of approx CHF 100
A criminal record entry. Publicly visible during the suspension period which is normally 2 years.
https://staatsanwaltschaften.zh.ch/i...gen_EXTERN.pdf

A driving ban of at least 3 months. Art. 16c SVG
Which comes with a bill for CHF 360.

Edit: The cost for driving ban/warning depend on your canton of residence. The above values are for Zurich, Jura might have other fees.

bigblue2 08.01.2020 16:23

Re: Road accident - need help and advice
 
just from other people I personally know who've had similar 'bumps' expect a large fine and a driving ban

bowlie 08.01.2020 16:59

Re: Road accident - need help and advice
 
I hope you have winter tyres/tires ...

ormesome 08.01.2020 17:09

Re: Road accident - need help and advice
 
Why would the OP get a fine or ban when he simply skidded on ice? No car would stop in ice. As I read the situation, the OP was coming to a red light, he states he was approaching it and he tried to stop for the red light but there was ice so he skidded on it and this resulted in him through the red light and hit the car in front. I don’t see how that is his fault? Of course I’m assuming all positive aspects such as winter tyres, no speeding, other car was directly in front of him and he didnt skid too much but I could be wrong.

Have you called your insurance company? Did you get any other witnesses to write down the details as they saw the accident? Always do this as it could help you.

roegner 08.01.2020 17:12

Re: Road accident - need help and advice
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ormesome (Post 3135237)
Why would the OP get a fine or ban when he simply skidded on ice? No car would stop in ice. As I read the situation, the OP was coming to a red light, he tried to stop for the red light but there was ice so he skidded on it and this resulted in him through the red light and hit the car in front. I don’t see how that is his fault? Of course I’m assuming all positive aspects such as winter tyres, no speeding, other car was directly in front of him and he didnt skid too much but I could be wrong.


The typical response would be that you have to drive in such a way that you can be sure to stop on time. That argument won´t wash.

Guest 08.01.2020 17:15

Re: Road accident - need help and advice
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ormesome (Post 3135237)
Why would the OP get a fine or ban when he simply skidded on ice? No car would stop in ice. As I read the situation, the OP was coming to a red light, he states he was approaching it and he tried to stop for the red light but there was ice so he skidded on it and this resulted in him through the red light and hit the car in front. I don’t see how that is his fault? Of course I’m assuming all positive aspects such as winter tyres, no speeding, other car was directly in front of him and he didnt skid too much but I could be wrong.

Have you called your insurance company? Did you get any other witnesses to write down the details as they saw the accident? Always do this as it could help you.

I guess if it's found that he was travelling to fast to stop in the conditions, or had the wrong tyres or whatever.

Also, it's only the OP's word that he skidded on the ice, too. He could have jumped the light and struck the other car and blamed the ice.

The responses on here range from there being zero consequences to having the book thrown at him but that's because nobody was there and therefore can't know the full circumstances.

bigblue2 08.01.2020 17:27

Re: Road accident - need help and advice
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ormesome (Post 3135237)
Why would the OP get a fine or ban when he simply skidded on ice? No car would stop in ice. As I read the situation, the OP was coming to a red light, he states he was approaching it and he tried to stop for the red light but there was ice so he skidded on it and this resulted in him through the red light and hit the car in front. I don’t see how that is his fault? Of course I’m assuming all positive aspects such as winter tyres, no speeding, other car was directly in front of him and he didnt skid too much but I could be wrong.

Have you called your insurance company? Did you get any other witnesses to write down the details as they saw the accident? Always do this as it could help you.

if the police are called then someone is going to get a fine and a ban, it is the way ;)

If you are driving and you crash someone is to blame, unless something like a deer jumps in front of you, from bushes, and you didn't swerve.

A friend skidded on ice on a mountain road a few years ago, scrapped the barrier and bounced into rock, no one hurt, no one else involved, police came, huge fine and 3 month driving ban, reason was they said she was driving too fast

Tom1234 08.01.2020 17:33

Re: Road accident - need help and advice
 
It's icy out there.

Slow down in good time when approaching junctions to allow enough time to stop in a controlled fashion.

bigblue2 08.01.2020 17:38

Re: Road accident - need help and advice
 
the police would have told you if they where sending a report in, what did they say?

aSwissInTheUS 08.01.2020 17:59

Re: Road accident - need help and advice
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roegner (Post 3135239)
The typical response would be that you have to drive in such a way that you can be sure to stop on time. That argument won´t wash.

That's what Art. 31 Abs. 1 SVG is all about. It is the catch-them-all clause of the law which says you MUST ALWAYS have full control of the vehicle. The Swiss view is simple: If an accident happens at least one party had not full control of the vehicle or the accident would simply not have happened.

We can also add Art. 32 Abs. 1 SVG which says you must adapt speed based on the overall conditions which includes weather and ice roads. Icy roads are explicitly mentioned in Art. 4 Abs. 2 VRV.

Federal court ruling 1C_83/2010 http://www.servat.unibe.ch/dfr/bger/...C_83-2010.html Someone crashed his own car going 60 km/h on a motorway, got a CHF 200 fine (plus a lot of fees, the federal court fees alone were CHF 2000), and a 1 month license ban.

Guest 08.01.2020 18:56

Re: Road accident - need help and advice
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ormesome (Post 3135237)
Why would the OP get a fine or ban when he simply skidded on ice? No car would stop in ice. As I read the situation, the OP was coming to a red light, he states he was approaching it and he tried to stop for the red light but there was ice so he skidded on it and this resulted in him through the red light and hit the car in front. I don’t see how that is his fault? Of course I’m assuming all positive aspects such as winter tyres, no speeding, other car was directly in front of him and he didnt skid too much but I could be wrong.

Have you called your insurance company? Did you get any other witnesses to write down the details as they saw the accident? Always do this as it could help you.




HE LOST CONTROL OF HIS CAR, irrespective of the circumstances you have to be in control of your vehicle and adapt to the circumstances. If ice is to be expected then drive accordingly.

Mélusine 08.01.2020 19:02

Re: Road accident - need help and advice
 
If the lady of the damaged car had agreed to fill in the accident form without calling the police (which is perfectly legal when no one is hurt), OP’s insurance would simply have paid.

However, the said lady could also choose to call the police, in which case the police report indeed implies a driving ban of probably one month, plus fine.

Island Monkey 08.01.2020 19:06

Re: Road accident - need help and advice
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mélusine (Post 3135274)
If the lady of the damaged car had agreed to fill in the accident form without calling the police (which is perfectly legal when no one is hurt), OP’s insurance would simply have paid.

However, the said lady could also choose to call the police, in which case the police report indeed implies a driving ban of probably one month, plus fine.

If the police care. They were called to my incident and they wouldn’t apportion blame and made no report, just helped us exchange details (really wasn’t necessary).

Mélusine 08.01.2020 19:54

Re: Road accident - need help and advice
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Island Monkey (Post 3135275)
If the police care. They were called to my incident and they wouldn’t apportion blame and made no report, just helped us exchange details (really wasn’t necessary).

Happened to me as well. But for that the other person must agree to deal directly with you, we call it ‘constat à l’amiable’ in French. The lady in the OP could have insisted to have a police report, and the police then have to comply.


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