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  #21  
Old 07.02.2020, 11:04
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Re: Driving Ban

Hey OP, you also have to work on your impulse control

Well, I got curious enough to read the law. Since my French is better than my German, Loi fédérale sur la circulation routière https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classifi...266/index.html

Art. 15d Détermination de l’aptitude et des qualifications nécessaires à la conduite


Determining the suitability and qualifications for driving

If there are doubts about fitness to drive, the person concerned will be investigated, in particular in the following cases

a. drunk driving with a blood alcohol level of 1.6 grams per thousand or more or a breath alcohol level of 0.8 milligrams or more per litre of air exhaled;


b. driving under the influence of narcotics or transporting narcotics that seriously impair driving ability or have a high addictive potential;


c. traffic violations indicating a lack of consideration for other road users;


d. notification by a cantonal IV office pursuant to Article 66c of the Federal Law of 19 June 1959 on invalidity insurance2;


e. communication by a doctor that a person is not fit, because of physical or mental illness or infirmity, or because of dependency, to drive a motor vehicle safely.

art 16d - Retrait du permis de conduire pour cause d’inaptitude à la conduite

Withdrawal of driver's licence due to unfitness to drive

1 The student driver's licence or driver's licence is withdrawn from the person indefinitely:

a. whose physical and mental aptitudes do not or no longer allow him/her to drive a motor vehicle safely;


b. who suffers from a form of dependency which renders him/her unfit to drive;

c. who, because of his past behaviour, cannot guarantee that in future he will observe the prescriptions and show consideration for others when driving a motor vehicle.

------------------------------------------

Put attention to 15d-e. and 16d-b.

It seems the Swiss law considers that people with addictions are not fit to drive, even if they never got caught "driving under influence". Things get complicate because a doctor has the power to decide if you have an addiction/dependency or not and this is not defined in this law (not sure if it's in another law or depends entirely on the professional assessment of the doctor).

So, if the OP got his driving permit retreated without committing any road infraction, it implies a doctor conducted an psychological assessment and wrote a letter to the strassenverkehrsamt that he concluded that OP has an alcohol dependency rendering him unfit to drive. So, this is what others commenters meant by more to this story than what you’ve written.

This permit relies entirely on the assessment of doctor(s). If anything can be done, it's starts by consulting a lawyer to get articles 15d and 16d better explained. Then, ask the lawyer if the opinion of the doctors who assessed the dependency is the only valid one. If that's the case....nothing to do. It's like being declared crazy, you cannot leave the asylum.
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  #22  
Old 07.02.2020, 11:08
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Re: Driving Ban

Hi Axa,

That’s the kind of comment I was looking for so many thanks for your contribution.
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Old 07.02.2020, 12:32
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Re: Driving Ban

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Hi all,

Thanks for your replies. I wasn’t charged by the police and only held in the cell until sober.

There is a little more detail to the story but to me this is not relevant but here we go.

I was very drunk and had an argument with my wife and smashed some of my items, my wife called the police. I was unable to find my keys to get out of the apartment and was on the balcony on the 4th floor and the police were at the bottom and I apparently said to them I need to get out of this apartment and if you don’t help I’m going to basically go down the balcony to get out. Still has no relevance to a car and I was no where near a car. Never ever have I driven a car whilst being drunk and no points on my licence.

That’s the whole story
That‘s the nub of it all. I don‘t know what „go down the balcony“ means or implies. But it would seem the police thought that you were going to jump. Hence the question of whether you displayed a „physical or mental illness or infirmity“ and thus were/are fit to drive...
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Old 07.02.2020, 12:58
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Re: Driving Ban

The thing that is not clear is how you got onto that programme of alcohol consumption tests through hair analysis.

I believe that the steps which got you there will also be the way to find out
  • whether it is legitimate that this is being required of you,
  • what constitutes compliance or defaulting, on your part (e.g. is drinking red wine too much, by their official measures?),
  • what the consequences will be if you do something that counts as failing the programme, and
  • the question of the costs.

Could it be that somewhere with in the chain of events (drunkenness, fight with wife, balcony, police, cell, release) a doctor was called to see you? If so, it may be that he or she authorised or prescribed your participation in the programme.

Alternatively, it may be that the police alone have the authority to register you with that programme. They may, as others have suggested, have had you sign something agreeing to participation in that programme, "or else"...., for example "or else give up your licence right away", or "or else be charged with x or y".

Thirdly, if there are any insurances involved, for example the medical insurance company, any household insurance, the disability office or an accident insurance company, then it could be that one of their forms a doctor has been required to decide whether or not to tick a box declaring that you are not fit to drive, or that your fitness to drive must be investigated.

Finally, I think that it is likely that, at the very least, the programme itself will have supplied you with some information about the rules, when you first went to have your hair sample test done.

In short, to keep the consequences - of all kinds - as low as possible, you'll need to know the contributory factors that got you into this situation. And then decide which of them are just flat givens, by law, and which ones lie within your sphere of influence.
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Old 07.02.2020, 13:41
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Re: Driving Ban

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I just want to see where it’s written in the law...
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1 The student driver's licence or driver's licence is withdrawn from the person indefinitely:
...
b. who suffers from a form of dependency which renders him/her unfit to drive;
I think this should pretty much address the question, quoted in isolation just to be absolutely clear.

So the police obviously think you have an alcohol dependency and are graciously allowing you to hold onto your licence if you can show otherwise, at your own expense, of course.

Like many 'draconian' Swiss rules, when you look at it on it's own it seems eminently sensible. In the UK I think this sort of licence withdrawal could only happen on medical grounds, so there are thousands of functioning alcoholics* on the road who are most probably over the legal limit most of the time, and who will only be sanctioned if they're stopped for drink driving or cause an accident as a result. That hardly sounds like a better solution to me.

Oh, and I'd like to think one could see the link between this approach and the point you made earlier
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I mean honestly I don’t mind giving up my licence if this is how pathetic this country is when there are idiots actually drink driving and because they haven’t been caught they are driving still.
Isn't it better to reduce known risks than to wait until something bad actually happens?


*My father was firmly in this category, back in the day; never had a problem, never caused an accident, but was he really fit to drive? No, I don't think so.
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  #26  
Old 07.02.2020, 15:45
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Re: Driving Ban

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..Like many 'draconian' Swiss rules, when you look at it on it's own it seems eminently sensible...
My boss drives without regard anytime when he drinks. He was stopped by police more than few times, he always loudly quarrels with them, his maximum ban was two months without license. He is still pissed off how they dare to do that. My other boss was doing the same, till he died from alcohol-related collapse, so I am really not that impressed by Swiss administrative road prevention system, but I also have a feeling they are pressing much harder in last year so maybe things will change for better.
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