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  #21  
Old 20.01.2021, 16:27
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Re: [Zurich] Garage Cleaning for MFK... Was I just unlucky?

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Even if they did replace it properly - 2,500!! Why on earth did you go back there in the first place?!
No, I didn't go back. This was the last time I went there, back in April. The first time it was something relatively minor, and the service didn't look too good but not too bad either - as also people who posted here seemed to agree.


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Replacing the timing belt on cars that need it, generally every five years, costs about chf1500 just on it's own.
Correct, it's a relatively expensive maintenance on the car. And I also had them do something else on top of it. I shopped a bit around for prices and more or less seemed to be standard in Zurich.


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Depends on car and mileage.
Also correct, in my case it was about time, both in terms of age and km.



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Dont you normally get a years warrantee on parts and labor ? So the original garage should have fixed it for free...
That is also correct, and in fact I was tempted to go there and have them fix it. But:
1) I was in Italy, and could do it for cheap at my trusted garage
2) At this point my trust in those people was completely ruined already... How can I know that they don't fix the pump but break something else - as they already did twice? No thanks.


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Hi Italo, you seem to be the perfect client. Congratulations!
ZOMG sarcasm overload!!!1!ONE!ELEVEN
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  #22  
Old 20.01.2021, 16:42
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Re: [Zurich] Garage Cleaning for MFK... Was I just unlucky?

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Engine washes are totally unnecessary, unless there are signs of oil leaks.
I would however, always do an underbody/wheel house clean (and general clean)
The cars I generally took for an MFK had 200,000 350,000 KM & had slight oil leaks, I even wiped some oil whilst waiting in line Never did an underbody wash but do jet wash the wheels & arches.
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Correct, it's a relatively expensive maintenance on the car. And I also had them do something else on top of it. I shopped a bit around for prices and more or less seemed to be standard in Zurich.


Also correct, in my case it was about time, both in terms of age and km.
The belt costs about CHF 30, a water pump CHF 100 worth doing at the same time. Main dealers tend to change all the tensioners which is a waste of money, however they have a warehouse full of overpriced parts they want to sell. I did once do it on a Peugeot at ATU in Germany €250 & about 1.5 hours waiting for them to get it done. At that price it was not worth getting my hands dirty.
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  #23  
Old 20.01.2021, 17:08
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Re: [Zurich] Garage Cleaning for MFK... Was I just unlucky?

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The cars I generally took for an MFK had 200,000 350,000 KM & had slight oil leaks, I even wiped some oil whilst waiting in line Never did an underbody wash but do jet wash the wheels & arches.
Ah yes I was forgetting your generalised comments that in fact refer to specific cases. ;-)


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The belt costs about CHF 30, a water pump CHF 100 worth doing at the same time. Main dealers tend to change all the tensioners which is a waste of money, however they have a warehouse full of overpriced parts they want to sell. I did once do it on a Peugeot at ATU in Germany Ä250 & about 1.5 hours waiting for them to get it done. At that price it was not worth getting my hands dirty.

Let's say the belt and pump cost 200, even 500. That's 2000 to fit them. At a generous 200 per hour that makes it a 10 hour job.
At the 1500 estimate just for a belt, again that's about a 10 hour job at reasonable rates.


I used to do mine on the driveway in less an hour for about £15 but it wasn't a Renault or anything exotic. I did once do a gearbox, clutch and clutch cable change on a Renault (Clio) though in a morning. The rates in Switzerland seem to be more supply and demand rather than parts and labour and I guess that's capitalism for you. Something which I too have taken advantage of in the past.
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  #24  
Old 20.01.2021, 19:44
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Re: [Zurich] Garage Cleaning for MFK... Was I just unlucky?

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I did once do it on a Peugeot at ATU in Germany Ä250 & about 1.5 hours waiting for them to get it done.
OK, but I don't understand your point... Replacing the pump's o-ring at my place in Italy (which requires the same amount of work, because you have to open all the engine to get access to the water pump) also costed me EUR 100. Which is in line with what you paid (EUR 250, minus the EUR ~150 for belt and replacement pump).


Welcome to Switzerland I guess?
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  #25  
Old 20.01.2021, 19:54
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Re: [Zurich] Garage Cleaning for MFK... Was I just unlucky?

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OK, but I don't understand your point... Replacing the pump's o-ring at my place in Italy (which requires the same amount of work, because you have to open all the engine to get access to the water pump) also costed me EUR 100. Which is in line with what you paid (EUR 250, minus the EUR ~150 for belt and replacement pump).


Welcome to Switzerland I guess?
Depending on the car, it could take 20 minutes (Ford Sierra from 1980 as plenty of space & just a fan belt to remove) to about 12 hours on a Ferrari. The first time I did it on a Citroen BX in the 70's it took 90 minutes, the belt was not right so then was able to do it a second time the same day in 30 minutes. I suspect most transverse engines take 30 minutes to 2 hours if you know what you are doing. The part list at MRP makes the difference. Mark up on parts is huge, 30-80% discount is available on OEM German car parts, just not from the main dealer.

I have a thread on Brake pads & disks thread 8 years old but nothing has changed.
https://www.englishforum.ch/transpor...s-repairs.html
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  #26  
Old 20.01.2021, 19:57
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Re: [Zurich] Garage Cleaning for MFK... Was I just unlucky?

guys .... this totally depends on the car. there are some cars that replacing the timing belt is an engine out job. on an old, poorly maintained car that could be a massive job with seized bolts etc. the fact the belt costs 10 chf is irrelevant.

doing tensioners at the same time as timing belt and water pump totally makes sense. tensioners wear out and failure can destroy an engine or at best leave you stranded.

sounds like the garage screwed it up. no surprise. a good mechanic is extremely hard to find. exactly why i do absolutely everything myself on any car older than 5 years old. of course doing so requires a massive investment in equipment and space and also a fair bit of time. don't like that? lease a modern car and forget about it. if you run a 10 year old car, you should understand a fair bit about it and not be reliant on it....
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  #27  
Old 20.01.2021, 20:11
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Re: [Zurich] Garage Cleaning for MFK... Was I just unlucky?

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if you run a 10 year old car, you should understand a fair bit about it and not be reliant on it....
Only one of ours is 10, the others are 20, 22, and 23!

My newest bike is a 2008 made in 2003, but the one I use the most is an '85 that I bought new in the US in '85.

Tom
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  #28  
Old 20.01.2021, 21:29
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Re: [Zurich] Garage Cleaning for MFK... Was I just unlucky?

Ah, that garage.
I has has some negative reviews on google.

Why didn't you bring it to a Renault garage?
At least, if you're not happy you can escalate it to HQ.

It's nice that some people are able to work on their own cars - I certainly am not.
As such, the discussion on how much spare parts on their own cost and how easy it is to switch them out is mostly academic IMO.
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  #29  
Old 20.01.2021, 21:45
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Re: [Zurich] Garage Cleaning for MFK... Was I just unlucky?

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Only one of ours is 10, the others are 20, 22, and 23!

My newest bike is a 2008 made in 2003, but the one I use the most is an '85 that I bought new in the US in '85.

Tom
Youíre no doubt an enthusiast. Most car owners are not. Economically itís best for them to get something that hasnít yet fallen into a wear cycle.

My oldest car is 68 years old and my oldest bike too. They are not the highest maintenance (that would probably be an Ď85 Renault). Newest car hasnít been delivered yet - and itís a Yaris! (Canít wait for that)
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  #30  
Old 20.01.2021, 21:45
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Re: [Zurich] Garage Cleaning for MFK... Was I just unlucky?

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Ah, that garage.
I has has some negative reviews on google.

Why didn't you bring it to a Renault garage?
At least, if you're not happy you can escalate it to HQ.

It's nice that some people are able to work on their own cars - I certainly am not.
As such, the discussion on how much spare parts on their own cost and how easy it is to switch them out is mostly academic IMO.
Actually the reviews I found online were overwhelmingly positive, that's why I was confused... Maybe fake ones?

Renault garage: yes, that would have been better, I just figured out that for a cheap car like mine would not make sense to pay more, also this one was very convenient for me to reach.

Totally agree about the academicity of the discussion. I never had passion for cars, for me it's just something to carry me from A to B, but I guess if you're into it it's nice and can save you money.
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  #31  
Old 20.01.2021, 22:03
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Re: [Zurich] Garage Cleaning for MFK... Was I just unlucky?

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Totally agree about the academicity of the discussion. I never had passion for cars, for me it's just something to carry me from A to B, but I guess if you're into it it's nice and can save you money.

And that's where the garages have you over a barrel. The work needs doing or your engine could be damaged so you pay the price of a replacement engine in any case. Like I said, supply and demand rather than parts and labour. If it were more transparent it might be better.


The mentioning of parts costs and time to fit is to give an example of what things should cost in a parts and labour model.
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  #32  
Old 20.01.2021, 22:28
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Re: [Zurich] Garage Cleaning for MFK... Was I just unlucky?

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but I guess if you're into it it's nice and can save you money.
Trust me - it certainly doesnít!

My greatest fear is that I die and my wife sells my tools, equipment and cars for what I told her I paid for them!
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  #33  
Old 21.01.2021, 00:00
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Re: [Zurich] Garage Cleaning for MFK... Was I just unlucky?

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guys .... this totally depends on the car.
This ^^^

Here are the book labour estimates for a few 2011 Renault to show the variation:

Megane 1.5 DCI ... 4 hours
Megane 2.0 16v petrol ... 9.3 hours
Megane 1.4 and 1.6 petrol ... 8.5 hours

Grand Espace 2.0 ... 9.6 hours
Renault Grand Espace 2.2 DCI ... 3.8 hours
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  #34  
Old 21.01.2021, 00:57
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Re: [Zurich] Garage Cleaning for MFK... Was I just unlucky?

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Depending on the car, it could take 20 minutes (Ford Sierra from 1980 as plenty of space & just a fan belt to remove) to about 12 hours on a Ferrari. The first time I did it on a Citroen BX in the 70's it took 90 minutes, the belt was not right so then was able to do it a second time the same day in 30 minutes. I suspect most transverse engines take 30 minutes to 2 hours if you know what you are doing. The part list at MRP makes the difference. Mark up on parts is huge, 30-80% discount is available on OEM German car parts, just not from the main dealer.

I have a thread on Brake pads & disks thread 8 years old but nothing has changed.
https://www.englishforum.ch/transpor...s-repairs.html
The last time I did a timing belt change was on my old 928 Porsche, took a few days due to the difficulty of buying the correct tools here. Cost around CHF 300 including crankshaft front oil seal, oil pump oil seals, new water pump plus bits and pieces. The Porsche timing belt tensioner tool costs an arm and a leg but I found a website that had a recording of the tone when the tension is correct, bit like tuning a guitar.
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