Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Transportation/driving  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 21.06.2020, 08:27
Jdr Jdr is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Koblenz AG
Posts: 79
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 96 Times in 49 Posts
Jdr is considered knowledgeableJdr is considered knowledgeableJdr is considered knowledgeable
Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

"They would have to be very lightweight, best made out of carbon fibre with a single seat and with bicycle wheels."

Like this ?

https://www.podbike.com/en/

or like this ?

https://www.velomobiel.nl/strada/
...I drove +/- 45000 km in one of these...

...or this ?
https://www.velomobiel.nl/quattrovelo/

Ths is my current vehicle.

It is all there, no excuses left !


Jos
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 21.06.2020, 08:53
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 5,284
Groaned at 146 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 9,183 Times in 3,481 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

Quote:
View Post
"They would have to be very lightweight, best made out of carbon fibre with a single seat and with bicycle wheels."

Like this ?

https://www.podbike.com/en/

or like this ?

https://www.velomobiel.nl/strada/
...I drove +/- 45000 km in one of these...

...or this ?
https://www.velomobiel.nl/quattrovelo/

Ths is my current vehicle.

It is all there, no excuses left !


Jos
Just like that, now get everybody to drive one.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 21.06.2020, 09:43
robBob's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 2,876
Groaned at 62 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 2,763 Times in 1,475 Posts
robBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond reputerobBob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

Quote:
View Post
That's all true and right.
But higher-end cars at least partly pay for the R&D necessary to bring features to smaller, cheaper cars.
At least in Europe.

Airbags and satnavs didn't start their lives in the ultra-compact segment.

Airbags are basically in cars today because Americans refused to wear seat belts. Manufactures even tried auto seat belts but that also didn't work in the long run. https://youtu.be/ND34pJwaifI
https://youtu.be/lkmoQvbMRFk

So in the end the big 3 finally gave in to installing airbags to meet US safty recs. So the next time you meet Americans go shake their hands for being stumbern imbicils. By the way Ford was the first to use em.

As for GPS, one can thank the US military, not lux autos.

Last edited by robBob; 21.06.2020 at 09:59.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank robBob for this useful post:
  #44  
Old 22.06.2020, 02:23
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

Quote:
View Post
...or this ?
https://www.velomobiel.nl/quattrovelo/

Ths is my current vehicle.

It is all there, no excuses left !


Jos
10 grand for a bicycle?!?!?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #45  
Old 22.06.2020, 07:36
BasP72's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Adliswil (close to Zurich)
Posts: 1,921
Groaned at 82 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 1,777 Times in 848 Posts
BasP72 has a reputation beyond reputeBasP72 has a reputation beyond reputeBasP72 has a reputation beyond reputeBasP72 has a reputation beyond reputeBasP72 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

Quote:
10 grand for a bicycle?!?!?
Its not a bicycle (the bi in bicy...) it's a pedal car.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank BasP72 for this useful post:
  #46  
Old 22.06.2020, 09:40
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Basel
Posts: 714
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 560 Times in 294 Posts
gipfelisturmer has an excellent reputationgipfelisturmer has an excellent reputationgipfelisturmer has an excellent reputationgipfelisturmer has an excellent reputation
Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

Quote:
View Post
Also slide 31 shows how useless moderately priced (if you call 50k moderate) EVs are.
I would disagree - if by "useless" you refer to range.
E.g. Kia Niro EV beats most of the EVs on range (pretty much all except Teslas), and is pretty much a "normal" car in terms of usability/design/space, with "moderate price".

P.S. Yes plenty has changed since those 2016/2017 numbers in the slides.

Real world tests:
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank gipfelisturmer for this useful post:
  #47  
Old 22.06.2020, 10:18
Jdr Jdr is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Koblenz AG
Posts: 79
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 96 Times in 49 Posts
Jdr is considered knowledgeableJdr is considered knowledgeableJdr is considered knowledgeable
Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

Quote:
10 grand for a bicycle?!?!?
Yep, and worth every cent... The waiting list when you order now is well over a year.

No fuel, no electricty, yet very comfy, cruising speed around 30-45 kmh, useful range : up to 250km per day. The record stands at over 1000 km in 24 hours. All without an engine. Saves on the fitness !

Commuting in such a velomobile is ideal, I used it on a 25km on way commute.

's are best bestowed upon ppl buying 300K CHF, 300 kmh Ferrari's etc. in a country that has a 120 kmh speedlimit.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Jdr for this useful post:
  #48  
Old 22.06.2020, 10:23
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,448
Groaned at 281 Times in 187 Posts
Thanked 18,183 Times in 7,629 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

Quote:
View Post
For me the first point on slide 41 says it all: in 2040 only 35% of new cars sold will be EVs. This tells me ICE cars will be dominant for a long time. Also slide 31 shows how useless moderately priced (if you call 50k moderate) EVs are.

If you really believe in the whole global warming CO2 story (and peoples impact on this) and you want to do good, ditch your car and get a 125cc scooter. You'll be amazed what a scooter like that can do.
Hrad to say what the level of EV sales will be. Without government intervention, I would guess quite low. However, if they continue to push emission standards, or give an outright ban on non-EV sales, then this would dramatically shift the market.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 22.06.2020, 10:50
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 2,930
Groaned at 37 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 3,944 Times in 1,830 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

Quote:
View Post
I would disagree - if by "useless" you refer to range.
E.g. Kia Niro EV beats most of the EVs on range (pretty much all except Teslas), and is pretty much a "normal" car in terms of usability/design/space, with "moderate price".

P.S. Yes plenty has changed since those 2016/2017 numbers in the slides.

Real world tests:
All above 300 km range, not bad. Just for comparison, the distance between Genève and Zürich is about the same. Also, I see chargers everywhere: hotels, restaurants, supermarket parkings, etc. At least for me that range is OK, last year I've only drove 2 times more than 300 km in a day.

The greatest barrier for adoption I see know is that even recently built or renovated apartment buildings and houses are not prepared to charge an electric car. The people that would consider buying a 35-40K CHF electric vehicle is discouraged by having to invest 10K to be able to charge the car at home. 10K is trivial for the Tesla S&X/Porsche customer, but it's ~6000 liters of gas for the rest of people.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #50  
Old 22.06.2020, 11:01
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,245
Groaned at 347 Times in 237 Posts
Thanked 12,030 Times in 4,128 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

Let's get real: who drives 400kms without a break?

As already posted on EF, I drove to the UK and back in my Model 3 without problem. The car's satnav works out the stops (3 to the channel tunnel). by the time you have a pee and cup fo coffee, you're charged.

(check abetterrouteplanner.com for journey planning)

I am surprised and disappointed by some of the reaction here - from people who have driven an EV. Come back to this thread in 5 years and post again...
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 22.06.2020, 11:22
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,448
Groaned at 281 Times in 187 Posts
Thanked 18,183 Times in 7,629 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

Quote:
View Post
Let's get real: who drives 400kms without a break?

As already posted on EF, I drove to the UK and back in my Model 3 without problem. The car's satnav works out the stops (3 to the channel tunnel). by the time you have a pee and cup fo coffee, you're charged.

(check abetterrouteplanner.com for journey planning)

I am surprised and disappointed by some of the reaction here - from people who have driven an EV. Come back to this thread in 5 years and post again...
How much can you charge the car in, say, 10 minutes?
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 22.06.2020, 11:35
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 15,798
Groaned at 526 Times in 418 Posts
Thanked 23,313 Times in 9,422 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

When going on holiday, with two drivers, we quite often drive a lot more than 400Kms without a break - or sometimes with a quick bathroom break - which, in France, needs to be very quick.

Other times (again in France), we take a picnic and prefer to stop away from motorway service stations so wouldn't have access to a charging point.

However, in due course, with electric vehicles being the norm, we'd have to change the way we do things but it would be nice for the service providers to adapt too - perhaps with PAYG chargers next to nice scenic picnic stops rather than only at mega-service stations.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #53  
Old 22.06.2020, 11:42
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 2,930
Groaned at 37 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 3,944 Times in 1,830 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

Quote:
View Post
How much can you charge the car in, say, 10 minutes?
Rent an ICE car for road trip?

Once rented a camper van for a summer vacation, other time rented a family van when the family visited CH, we all rent boxes on wheels for moving to another house, even once rented a track car in a track All of them excel in their specialty but fail at everything else. Maybe all those ugly SUVs are explained by the people who want it all in 1 car

For the moment, the electric car specialty is to be that car that takes you to work and back, groceries runs, visit friends in another canton, pick up a friend from the train station late at night, reduce the 40 min public transport commute to 15 min.......I spent 6 years on trains+buses, maybe that's why I appreciate cars, even electric ones with "limited" 300+ km range.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 22.06.2020, 12:06
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,245
Groaned at 347 Times in 237 Posts
Thanked 12,030 Times in 4,128 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

Quote:
View Post
How much can you charge the car in, say, 10 minutes?
At a Supercharger with say 20% charge, the M3 will load at about 950 kms per hour. This rate slows as the batteries fill.

So a stop on a road trip is usually 10/20% charge - in 10 minutes you can add about 200kms...
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #55  
Old 22.06.2020, 14:29
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 2,930
Groaned at 37 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 3,944 Times in 1,830 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

Well, there might the possibility that the future is neither ICE nor EV, but less cars overall. Only 58% of 18-24 year olds residents of CH have a driving permit. It can be argued that after 25 they care enough about a permit to get one, anyway there's a 10% drop between 25-44 and 45-64 years old. What if 5-10 years 1 out of 25-44 years old has no permit? This is very bad for car companies. The young people with lots of disposable income are simply not customers. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/turned-...swiss/44202418

Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #56  
Old 22.06.2020, 15:33
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,245
Groaned at 347 Times in 237 Posts
Thanked 12,030 Times in 4,128 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

Quote:
View Post
Well, there might the possibility that the future is neither ICE nor EV, but less cars overall. Only 58% of 18-24 year olds residents of CH have a driving permit. It can be argued that after 25 they care enough about a permit to get one, anyway there's a 10% drop between 25-44 and 45-64 years old. What if 5-10 years 1 out of 25-44 years old has no permit? This is very bad for car companies. The young people with lots of disposable income are simply not customers. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/turned-...swiss/44202418
Seat belts, X-raying kids feet in shoe shops, crash helmets, airbags, drink driving, smoking, equality etc etc. All things that did - or didn't use or do - without another thought.

Forward 25 years and I doubt there will be driving licenses/permits. Cars will drive themselves without steering wheels.

We will look back in amazement that we allowed people behind the wheel...
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 22.06.2020, 15:45
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 15,798
Groaned at 526 Times in 418 Posts
Thanked 23,313 Times in 9,422 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

Quote:
View Post
Seat belts, X-raying kids feet in shoe shops, crash helmets, airbags, drink driving, smoking, equality etc etc. All things that did - or didn't use or do - without another thought.

Forward 25 years and I doubt there will be driving licenses/permits. Cars will drive themselves without steering wheels.

We will look back in amazement that we allowed people behind the wheel...
Following on from that, as is with the electric scooters and Boris bikes etc now, I can see fewer people owning cars but being able to rent them easily in neighbourhood rental units.

With the inevitable extra safety sensors and self-driving - a lot of the problems with such a service would be removed.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 22.06.2020, 16:09
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: wallisellen
Posts: 188
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 242 Times in 85 Posts
irish_marmot has earned the respect of manyirish_marmot has earned the respect of manyirish_marmot has earned the respect of many
Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

Quote:
View Post
At a Supercharger with say 20% charge, the M3 will load at about 950 kms per hour. This rate slows as the batteries fill.

So a stop on a road trip is usually 10/20% charge - in 10 minutes you can add about 200kms...

In the Model X (97D battery) the battery is roughly 70% charged in 20mins, the next 20% over 10mins and then gets exponentially slower over the remaining 10%. Doing very long drives (to Spain say) the car suggest 5 or 6 stops but with kids we find its faster & more enjoyable to stop more for smaller stops and just charge to 70%.

One of things I was personally surprised by switching to EV was the fact that we dont get "range anxiety". It's never really happened. We also find we only need to use the super chargers on long car journeys, normal weekend drives the regular charger at home is enough. Another thing, I was pleasantly blown away by, was the capacity of the battery was increased by one of the software updates.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank irish_marmot for this useful post:
  #59  
Old 22.06.2020, 17:47
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

Quote:
View Post
Let's get real: who drives 400kms without a break?

<snip>

I am surprised and disappointed by some of the reaction here - from people who have driven an EV. Come back to this thread in 5 years and post again...
As you know, I own an EV (Tesla Model X Long Range) and I'm surprised and disappointed by its range. It's nowhere near its claimed range. Not just a bit off, but up to 40% less. If a driver is going to drop well in excess of CHF 100k on a car, s/he's going to want a car that performs well, looks good, maybe makes something of a statement, and is comfortable. Sacrificing large amounts of range because I want 21" wheels is not on. Not being able to drive anywhere near as far in winter as in summer is not on (distances between cities don't shrink with cold weather!). And having a screen full of arcade games and farts on demand doesn't make up for interior cabin noise that's louder than in my V8 diesel car. (OK, so that last one has nothing to do with range.)

As to who drives 400 km without a break, I've said this before but I'll say it again. Our car travels every week from Basel to Vaud, 180 km each way. It is parked the whole day in a giant parking lot in Vaud (losing 2-3% in phantom drain), then driven back home. There are no charging facilities at all (not even a 10A power outlet) in the car park. Despite a claimed range of 510 km, we have never come even close to making the 360 km return trip on a single charge, and that means taking a detour off the highway (as there is no conveniently located Supercharger yet) for a 25-30 minute recharge, adding about 12% to the total commuting time for the day. Range anxiety is a thing, believe me. And the low efficiency means that we have to charge to 100% before starting the trip, which is not great for the battery in the long run.

Obviously that situation is peculiar to us, but I'm certain we're not alone and others often have to drive 350+ km in a day without convenient charging options. Offsetting that is the relaxation factor produced by driving a car with autopilot and a great sound system (diminished somewhat by that fearsome cabin noise).

EVs are well on their way, but they're not there yet. Maybe Tesla's million mile, 1,000 km per charge batteries (if they really do eventuate) will change all that, although based on our experience, the true range will be in the order of 600 km -- which is perfectly acceptable.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #60  
Old 22.06.2020, 17:50
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

Quote:
View Post
's are best bestowed upon ppl buying 300K CHF, 300 kmh Ferrari's etc. in a country that has a 120 kmh speedlimit.
Almost any modern car can go well in excess of 120 km/h. If you lived your life by that principle, you'd eat nothing but egg whites and beans (why eat expensive meat for protein?).

It's when the corners come up that a driver appreciates a Ferrari. Oh, but a Dacia can go around corners too...
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tesla's CYBERTRK Guest General off-topic 43 01.01.2021 13:36
Low-cost roadster for sale (Mazda MX-5 NC) erchegyia Items for sale 7 28.05.2019 10:59
2008 Nissan 350Z Roadster Guest Items for sale 8 28.05.2017 17:05
Smart Roadster repair costs too high? puddycat Transportation/driving 21 17.02.2012 14:54
1925 Bugatti Brescia Type 22 Roadster fished out of Lago Maggiore after 73 years boxcarracer General off-topic 0 22.11.2010 14:22


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:50.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0