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  #81  
Old 23.06.2020, 21:12
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Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

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I just wonder whether EVs are going to be adopted by everybody or whether it is just by a few who want and EV and that sales will die down after everyone who wants an EV has one.

No.
Manufacturers have started to wind down investment in ICE cars, because the EU emission standards are simply not achievable with ICE.

At this point, it doesn't really matter anymore what people think or want ;-)

2025 or 2026, you will have trouble buying a new ICE that isn't at least hybrid and the used ones - well, we'll see how well today's cars hold up. I'm not optimistic.
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  #82  
Old 23.06.2020, 21:14
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Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

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Tesla also receives billions from selling emisison credits to ICE car manufacturers another transfer from ICE to EV at the manufacturer level.
FCA would be dead if Tesla didn't sell them their credits.
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  #83  
Old 23.06.2020, 22:24
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Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

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No.
Manufacturers have started to wind down investment in ICE cars, because the EU emission standards are simply not achievable with ICE.

At this point, it doesn't really matter anymore what people think or want ;-)

2025 or 2026, you will have trouble buying a new ICE that isn't at least hybrid and the used ones - well, we'll see how well today's cars hold up. I'm not optimistic.
Well, I meant what they wanted without government interference.

As I noted, the main risk I see to ICE is govt intervention, essentially killing them off with tightened emission standards if not banning them outright.
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  #84  
Old 23.06.2020, 22:36
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Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

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No.
Manufacturers have started to wind down investment in ICE cars, because the EU emission standards are simply not achievable with ICE.

At this point, it doesn't really matter anymore what people think or want ;-)

2025 or 2026, you will have trouble buying a new ICE that isn't at least hybrid and the used ones - well, we'll see how well today's cars hold up. I'm not optimistic.
Yeah politicians are not know for making U-turns when it suits them.
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  #85  
Old 23.06.2020, 23:27
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Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

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Well, I meant what they wanted without government interference.

As I noted, the main risk I see to ICE is govt intervention, essentially killing them off with tightened emission standards if not banning them outright.
The European auto-industry (which is really the German auto-industry) wanted to do "incremental" updates, using Diesel-engines and Diesel-hybrids etc. to slowly bring down CO2 emissions. Mercedes, VW and BMW had thus invested several billions into their latest-generation Diesel engines (which are very nice).

However, it turned out the targets they agreed on with regulators in 2013 can not be achieved that way. Additionally, cars got bigger and more powerful every year - and the most profit is in the biggest and most powerful cars (large SUVs, powerful sedans and wagons), thus the incentive to sell more of those.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flottenverbrauch

That targets get smaller every year, until just below 60g CO2/km in 2030.

There's no "plan b". The only way is to push forward.
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  #86  
Old 23.06.2020, 23:45
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Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

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Transparent incentive are the discounts or exemptions for the vehicle tax for EVs offered by some cantons.

But that pales compared to the not so evident Petroleum tax of 73.12 cents per liter. About half the fuel price to the customer. On 2018, 2.7 billion CHF went to CH federal budget, road and aviation development. https://www.ezv.admin.ch/ezv/en/home...oleum-tax.html

EV users don't pay this tax for now. If the EV fraction of total vehicle fleet keeps growing, the CH federal budget will have a hole or they come up with an special tax for EVs.



If Tesla doesn't generate consistent profits it means car are sold below cost. Investors may sustain this situation for the sake of growth but eventually cars need to be sold for profit. It would be interesting to estimate the retail price of a Tesla X if the company had to generate profits at that time.
Cost of goods/manufacturing and sales price aren't the only profitability drivers. We all know that Tesla invests billions into R&D, giga/terafactories, fart variants and weed.

Tesla has started to make money already, even as they continue to cut the price of their Models S and X. And they'll make gigaloads more when everybody gets access to the Model Y. One reason why TSLA defies gravity.
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  #87  
Old 24.06.2020, 12:42
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Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

Lots of great posts here on the Tesla.

I'm not a car expert at all, I've only ever owned 1 car before the Tesla and that was a banged up very old volvo v70 (there are pictures of it on here somewhere - I sold it over englishforum). My husband had never owned a car and had wanted not to but having kiddies changed that.

We bought a model X nearly 3 years ago. It has a 97D battery (the smallest battery) which I dont think is sold in the X anymore, after the M3 was released they changed this. On the 97D we get 370/380km (I believe - I may have to double check this). As I mentioned earlier its rarely an issue. When we got the car we didnt have a 3-phase plug in the garage, only 1phase so at the beginning we were actually only charging it at 10km an hour, but leaving it plugged in overnight we found that to be fine. We have now a tesla charger which charges 50km a hour (or you can use a standard 3 phase plug).

Someone was asking about the FW doors. We've had no issues with ours. We've 3 kids who press every bloody button they can so they have had plenty of testing. No issues.

Regarding cabin noise. I haven't experienced this at all. But I dont have much car experience so I suppose I don't have something to compare it to. The only cabin noise issues we have are the 3 kids screaming in the back

We got the tesla as we needed a car for 3 kids (at the time we needed 3 isofix points) and we wanted hybrid. These 2 criterias greatly reduce your choice in the car market. The car we were going for was the volvo cx90 hybrid. It was new on the market at the time - this is what had us buying a car new and not second hard. The hybrid volvo was about 20k more expensive than its non-hybrid equivalent. At that time, 3 years ago, the new volvo cx90 hybrid worked out only to be about 5k cheaper than the Tesla model X (no added features, smallest battery). So we got the Tesla. It really was a dream purchase for us and as someone who was never really a car person before I now get how people fall in love with cars!

We are both really surprised how much we drive autonomously, wherever possible we had control over to the Tesla and it's incredible. Autonomous driving is also great for when the kids are fighting and I shout back "if you dont stop killing eachother, Ill come back there and do it for you"

I love the "hovercraft" driving feel, I am comparing it to a chuga-chuga old volvo, so not really like with like but it feels lovely to drive.

I think we were both surprised as well about how little charging anxiety we feel. The only charging issue we have experienced is that on a very long drive (over night) it is annoying to have to stop to recharge when the kids are asleep in the back and you want to keep them asleep (ie you just want to get as much of the drive behind you but you have to stop for 20-40mins). So we experience this about twice a year.

I love the release notes. When we go to pick up the girls from their various classes - ballet, gym, Sanskrit for swissies (joking!) - I read the release notes and find out what new things my car can do that it couldn't do a week ago. Love this.

I have to say, if you can afford it, its a great family car. It comfortably sits 3 kiddie seats in the middle row. The car is very low to the ground, much more so that other SUVs or family cars. Yet the roof is normal height. So its very spacious for stretching across (screaming) kiddies and strapping belts. Much less stress on your back and shoulders. There is load of boot and frunk space (as well as all our luggage we can fit buggies and the SUP!).


On the low to the ground aspect. My husband didnt actually like the volvo cx90 as he felt like he was driving a tank. The Tesla X is actually wider than the cx90 but feels less like a tank - I think its due to the very low suspension. You do have to adjust the car, and raise the suspension, if you go down slopes (like into garages for example). This does take getting used to, but the car can remember this once youve done it in a location once.


We love it.

The only gripe I have, that I wasnt expecting is that sometimes the ipad screen and dashboard "doesnt switch on". Sounds odd I know. I dont really know how to describe it, some of the other Tesla owners may have a better term for it. Its a bit like an iphone where the screen is fully dark. Interestingly it can drive like this. You have to hold 2 buttons down on the steering wheel and reboot it like an iphone. An iphone on wheels. Over the last 3 years I think this has happened 3 times. I did contact Tesla about this and the answer I got back was "its a computer".

Last edited by irish_marmot; 24.06.2020 at 13:04. Reason: low suspension
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  #88  
Old 24.06.2020, 14:21
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Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

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I think we were both surprised as well about how little charging anxiety we feel. The only charging issue we have experienced is that on a very long drive (over night) it is annoying to have to stop to recharge when the kids are asleep in the back and you want to keep them asleep (ie you just want to get as much of the drive behind you but you have to stop for 20-40mins). So we experience this about twice a year.



On the low to the ground aspect. My husband didnt actually like the volvo cx90 as he felt like he was driving a tank. The Tesla X is actually wider than the cx90 but feels less like a tank - I think its due to the very low suspension. You do have to adjust the car, and raise the suspension, if you go down slopes (like into garages for example). This does take getting used to, but the car can remember this once youve done it in a location once.
what do you mean by raising the suspension? there's an in-car option to dynamically change this (like buses which lower to allow passengers on)? or do you mean permanently adjusting the suspension?

it seems we have the same concerns: wanting 3 isofix points and not wanting to stop to avoid waking up the kids.
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  #89  
Old 24.06.2020, 16:04
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Re: Tesla Roadster 2020

Model X has adjustable air-suspension.
Raven Models (June-ish 2019 and later) can adjust height and characteristics of the suspension.


https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/27...ttery-version/


Earlier models could only adjust height, IIRC.
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