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  #21  
Old 25.06.2020, 12:34
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Re: Seller wants to raise car price after signed contract of sale

Here is what happened

Mon: Hmm... this car needs to go. Let me advertise for 22.1k. Buyers always want to haggle, so I can do down to like 20k. Yes, let me do that.

Tue: Woo hoo, someone just paid my asking price. How great is that. I was even willing to do down on price, but I am not complaining. Let me sign the sale contract.

Wed: Hmm... am I the mug here? Did I ask too little? Surely I must have because the car sold straight away at my asking price. Yes, that must be it, I underpriced. What to do?

Thu: Hello Buyer, since you bought from me at asking price, my price must have been too low. I want a higher price. 2k more should cover it. Still want it?

Rinse, repeat.

If it was me, I would not pay more at all. Forget the deal and move on.

Last edited by DUTCH; 25.06.2020 at 12:34. Reason: .
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  #22  
Old 25.06.2020, 12:43
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Re: Seller wants to raise car price after signed contract of sale

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It very well could have been a genuine mistake. However the seller advertised the car at 22100-, to which I agreed. And yes, if I have a binding contract I would be perfectly happy to profit from someone else's mistake if he looked me in the eye and shook my hand, then signed a contract with me.

What the seller is saying is that he made a mistake and there is 24 000- left on his lease, rather than 22 100-. I had attempted to negotiate the price down, but he quoted that he was going to use the money to pay down his lease and as I really liked the car, I agreed to 22 100-.


We negotiated the service as the seller would not budge on the price, I have written confirmation he will do it before delivery.

The car is rather nice Lexus NX, the petrol rather than the hybrid. Most similar cars in Switzerland are using the hybrid drive train, so it is quite rare that a petrol one shows up.
The seller can just give the car back at the end of the lease, he has either driven too many miles or wants to end the contract early. No reason why he should get you to pay for depreciation he has enjoyed.
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Old 25.06.2020, 13:59
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Re: Seller wants to raise car price after signed contract of sale

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Maybe it was a genuine mistake. Would you have been interested if the car cost 1900 more? If yes, then consider whether you want to be the kind of person who profits from other's mistakes.
There's no grounds to play the immorality card. It's not like the car is awfully mispriced or something similar. Contracts are binding, there's no reason to let the seller out just because they changed their mind. Especially with 10% deposit paid (a bad idea IMHO but it is what it is).
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- can I cancel the insurance I agreed for the car, I only got it signed yesterday?
AFAIK the Versicherungsnachweis is valid for something like 10 or 14 days. You should check that, as July 7 may be out of that range anyways. This paper is an offer to conclude the insurance contract, as st2lemans already wrote above, if you don't act on it in due time it simply lapses, nothing else happens.
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Old 25.06.2020, 14:49
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Re: Seller wants to raise car price after signed contract of sale

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I'm struggling to figure out why people are suggesting to pay more. You bought an item at an agreed price, I can't think of any reason why you'd be expected to pay 10% more than agreed. At that price jump you could be looking at a newer car/lower mileage etc.

If the contract is not enforceable, why do we even make them?
It is enforceable but that takes time, nerves and depending on OP's age by the time he won, he no longer has a driver's license.

So stepping back is the better thing to do. I hava no idea why people pay money in advance on a car deal. Second hand cars are sold cash when delivered (including car-papers stamped "invalid").


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Here is what happened

Mon: Hmm... this car needs to go. Let me advertise for 22.1k. Buyers always want to haggle, so I can do down to like 20k. Yes, let me do that.

Tue: Woo hoo, someone just paid my asking price. How great is that. I was even willing to do down on price, but I am not complaining. Let me sign the sale contract.

Wed: Hmm... am I the mug here? Did I ask too little? Surely I must have because the car sold straight away at my asking price. Yes, that must be it, I underpriced. What to do?

Thu: Hello Buyer, since you bought from me at asking price, my price must have been too low. I want a higher price. 2k more should cover it. Still want it?

Rinse, repeat.

If it was me, I would not pay more at all. Forget the deal and move on.
That was totally different.
guy (g) puts the ad on the internet, asks his wife "how much do we need to come out clean?"
Wife (w) looks through leasing papers and tells him 22100.00
Car sells for 22100.00
g takes out leasing papers to see how to proceed and finds out 22100.00 is not the right amount. "Gdam, woman, can't you read a contract properly?"
w whines "talk to the buyer, he might pay more".

Or even more likely: Guy calculated it wrongly, now blames the wife. Which is the classic even though she might even have been on holidays at the time.
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Old 25.06.2020, 15:55
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Re: Seller wants to raise car price after signed contract of sale

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It is enforceable but that takes time, nerves and depending on OP's age by the time he won, he no longer has a driver's license.

So stepping back is the better thing to do. I hava no idea why people pay money in advance on a car deal. Second hand cars are sold cash when delivered (including car-papers stamped "invalid").



That was totally different.
guy (g) puts the ad on the internet, asks his wife "how much do we need to come out clean?"
Wife (w) looks through leasing papers and tells him 22100.00
Car sells for 22100.00
g takes out leasing papers to see how to proceed and finds out 22100.00 is not the right amount. "Gdam, woman, can't you read a contract properly?"
w whines "talk to the buyer, he might pay more".

Or even more likely: Guy calculated it wrongly, now blames the wife. Which is the classic even though she might even have been on holidays at the time.
One way or another, a beating must be administered.
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Old 25.06.2020, 16:10
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Re: Seller wants to raise car price after signed contract of sale

Here is what I got from the seller, he is claiming that he cannot complete the sale due to the outstanding leasing if I understand correctly:

Selon informations transmises hier au téléphone , la vente de la voiture personnelle de ma compagne est ANNULEE.

Le contrat annulé ( envoi postal du jour ) et la copie de l' ordre de remboursement fait ce jour par mon épouse vous est adressé ce jour par "COURRIER RECOMMANDE" , à votre adresse Suisse.

Il est fait obligation au vendeur en suisse et interdit de vendre un véhicule sans respecter la levée de l' art 147 du permis de circulation, ce point est vérifié au service admin autos Vs, qui lui interdit l' immatriculation.

Par conséquent, le vendeur est dans l'obligation d' annuler le contrat et de restituer tous les acomptes de réservations fait par l 'acheteur final.

Les excuses personnelles vous sont adressées mais il est du devoir du vendeur de prévenir l' acheteur et de ne pas suivre le contrat de vente qui est devenu caduque immédiatement et de droit. Nous sommes des personnes honnêtes et aucune intention malveillante était voulu de notre propre part. L'erreur initiale est subie par moi encore ce jour.

Vous avait été averti dès que les données de ventes ne pouvaient plus être tenue hier le mercredi 24.06, 16:40 par téléphone et par email.

Votre acompte est remis au "contre-remboursement" ce jour une preuve du paiement pourra être remise sur demande, l' opération annulée est donc soldée selon les obligations du vendeur. Svp ne procédez à aucun paiement successifs au remboursement du jour.

Il respecte à nouveau ses obligations en matières de leasing art 147 en place sur cette voiture personnelle. L' erreur est essentielle concernait un élément substantiel à toute vente soit le : prix, délai, conformité techniques, non-respect des obligations légales du vendeur ou de l' acheteur.

Bonnes réceptions à vous, monsieur et je vous souhaite les meilleures suites à vous maintenant.
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  #27  
Old 25.06.2020, 16:15
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Re: Seller wants to raise car price after signed contract of sale

Let it go. The Swiss car market is a buyer's market. There are so many good priced cars available.
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Old 25.06.2020, 16:16
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Re: Seller wants to raise car price after signed contract of sale

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Here is what I got from the seller, he is claiming that he cannot complete the sale due to the outstanding leasing if I understand correctly:

Selon informations transmises hier au téléphone , la vente de la voiture personnelle de ma compagne est ANNULEE.

Le contrat annulé ( envoi postal du jour ) et la copie de l' ordre de remboursement fait ce jour par mon épouse vous est adressé ce jour par "COURRIER RECOMMANDE" , à votre adresse Suisse.

Il est fait obligation au vendeur en suisse et interdit de vendre un véhicule sans respecter la levée de l' art 147 du permis de circulation, ce point est vérifié au service admin autos Vs, qui lui interdit l' immatriculation.

Par conséquent, le vendeur est dans l'obligation d' annuler le contrat et de restituer tous les acomptes de réservations fait par l 'acheteur final.

Les excuses personnelles vous sont adressées mais il est du devoir du vendeur de prévenir l' acheteur et de ne pas suivre le contrat de vente qui est devenu caduque immédiatement et de droit. Nous sommes des personnes honnêtes et aucune intention malveillante était voulu de notre propre part. L'erreur initiale est subie par moi encore ce jour.

Vous avait été averti dès que les données de ventes ne pouvaient plus être tenue hier le mercredi 24.06, 16:40 par téléphone et par email.

Votre acompte est remis au "contre-remboursement" ce jour une preuve du paiement pourra être remise sur demande, l' opération annulée est donc soldée selon les obligations du vendeur. Svp ne procédez à aucun paiement successifs au remboursement du jour.

Il respecte à nouveau ses obligations en matières de leasing art 147 en place sur cette voiture personnelle. L' erreur est essentielle concernait un élément substantiel à toute vente soit le : prix, délai, conformité techniques, non-respect des obligations légales du vendeur ou de l' acheteur.

Bonnes réceptions à vous, monsieur et je vous souhaite les meilleures suites à vous maintenant.
I would ask for damages, he was tying to sell a car he did not own, I wonder if the Police might be interested.
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  #29  
Old 25.06.2020, 16:35
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Re: Seller wants to raise car price after signed contract of sale

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Or even more likely: Guy calculated it wrongly, now blames the wife. Which is the classic even though she might even have been on holidays at the time.
This detail is really interesting. Real funny that the wife gets thrown under the bus to save face in front of a person you'll never see ever again in your life. Doesn't matter if it's true or false, the guy looks like a coward, either for using the wife as shield, or for not owning her mistake and making a failed transaction become a soap opera.

OP, don't worry. You get your money back and there's plenty of cars in Switzerland to buy. With the oncoming crisis, I'd bet prices will go down before the end of the year.
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Old 26.06.2020, 13:04
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Re: Seller wants to raise car price after signed contract of sale

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Maybe it was a genuine mistake. Would you have been interested if the car cost 1900 more? If yes, then consider whether you want to be the kind of person who profits from other's mistakes.

Frankly, either take the money back, or pay up (maybe not the full price). But going legal is likely to cost you more time and effort than it is worth. With no guarantee of winning. It's amazing how an open and shut case becomes less clear cut once it's in court.
If the shoe was on the other foot i.e. the buyer had backed out because he had miscalculated his financial ability to pay 'by mistake', would the seller give back the deposit?

It all depends on whether signing an agreement and paying a deposit puts both sides under an obligation because it would work both ways.

If the OP had come here saying he wants to back out and get back his deposit we know what the advice would have been.

Edit: I see I am late to the party and the seller has come back with another excuse now.

Last edited by DerDieDas; 26.06.2020 at 13:19.
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  #31  
Old 26.06.2020, 13:29
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Re: Seller wants to raise car price after signed contract of sale

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One way or another, a beating must be administered.
Yea but to whom?

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......Le contrat annulé ( envoi postal du jour ) et la copie de l' ordre de remboursement fait ce jour par mon épouse vous est adressé ce jour par "COURRIER RECOMMANDE" , à votre adresse Suisse........
Uuoo, he's already putting the blame on his wife again, should the money not come back.

@BasP72, I'd sag the beating is applied to the seller (known as g).

As k_and_e said: OP let it go. Almost sounds like "you got away with a blue eye" as a (directly translated) German proverb goes.
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Old 26.06.2020, 17:18
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Re: Seller wants to raise car price after signed contract of sale

Good advice above. Personally I'd ask for my money back and walk away.
However, if there is a lease agreement, the money should go to the leasing company. If he does not pass the money on, they may try and repossess the car.
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  #33  
Old 26.06.2020, 17:29
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Re: Seller wants to raise car price after signed contract of sale

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I would ask for damages, he was tying to sell a car he did not own, I wonder if the Police might be interested.
No. I an sell you the Statue of Liberty. It is my problem how I can manage delivery and successful transfer of ownership. If I fail, you can request compensation and damages. Selling stuff which the seller does not own is very usual and not out of the ordinary.
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Old 26.06.2020, 20:39
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Re: Seller wants to raise car price after signed contract of sale

A message from a french-speaking Swiss guy. That long message from the seller shows that he is not a native french speaker - the text is like 2010 google-translate output. Also, the legal words he used show he has absolutely no clue about Swiss law, and make absolutely no sense.

When I first read your post I thought it was a scam, that you would never see your money back. Reading his words, he sounds like a desperate guy who's going to have to eat pasta for the next 4 months if he sells his car at that price.

His message suggests that he his sending you the money back. That would be very good news.

Yes the contract that you have seem binding and he should be obliged to deliver the car. You can try to convince him, or find an agreement as others have suggested. I would advise against going to court, for a lot of good reasons that you can easily imagine (time, money, a stressful summer, or worse...)

As we say around here, "un mauvais arrangement vaut mieux qu'un bon procès" (a poor settlement is better than a good trial).

Cheers
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  #35  
Old 26.06.2020, 23:15
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Re: Seller wants to raise car price after signed contract of sale

since it's leased car - selling it without taking it out of the lease is fraud he's not an owner in my mind.

Of course there is many cars on lease being sold however way it works is that one takes a car off the lease and limitation on the car registration papers is removed what would allow for sale of the car only when leasing company agrees on it - and it's usually when "to be"owner is ready to cover the bill (take over the lease and close it).

Funny enough - I bought and sold cars - however always managed to do it after my lease was paid in full
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Old 26.06.2020, 23:32
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Re: Seller wants to raise car price after signed contract of sale

What car was it actually?
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Old 27.06.2020, 08:15
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Re: Seller wants to raise car price after signed contract of sale

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What car was it actually?
A Nissan Qashqai of course. What other car could people want so much?
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Old 27.06.2020, 10:18
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Re: Seller wants to raise car price after signed contract of sale

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If the shoe was on the other foot i.e. the buyer had backed out because he had miscalculated his financial ability to pay 'by mistake', would the seller give back the deposit?
The seller is not obliged to retain the deposit. There's always a choice to make.

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There's no grounds to play the immorality card. It's not like the car is awfully mispriced or something similar. Contracts are binding
Contracts are binding, but both parties to a contract can agree to vary the terms. If the OP had believed the seller's sob story, he could have chosen to show mercy and agreed to mutually terminate the contract. He doesn't have to of course, and in such a situation I might also insist. But I'd certainly think about it - there is a moral dimension to most things. E.g. would the seller suffer a loss that they couldn't easily overcome? Do I really want to be responsible for sending someone to the workhouse?

Anyway - this seller's story as presented isn't massively believable, so it's moot. And it's still not worth pursuing the implementation of the contract.
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Old 27.06.2020, 20:38
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Re: Seller wants to raise car price after signed contract of sale

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Contracts are binding, but both parties to a contract can agree to vary the terms.
Obviously OP chose not to.

Good to see you agree.
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Old 28.06.2020, 09:07
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Re: Seller wants to raise car price after signed contract of sale

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The seller is not obliged to retain the deposit. There's always a choice to make.



Contracts are binding, but both parties to a contract can agree to vary the terms. If the OP had believed the seller's sob story, he could have chosen to show mercy and agreed to mutually terminate the contract. He doesn't have to of course, and in such a situation I might also insist. But I'd certainly think about it - there is a moral dimension to most things. E.g. would the seller suffer a loss that they couldn't easily overcome? Do I really want to be responsible for sending someone to the workhouse?

Anyway - this seller's story as presented isn't massively believable, so it's moot. And it's still not worth pursuing the implementation of the contract.
In the other thread about the lawyer bill, you are arguing the lawyer is right to charge (even more than for what has already been done) and here you are saying the opposite. Maybe the lawyer can also waive the fee of 185 CHF for someone in difficult times due to Coronavirus?

I think you are just saying things for the sake of being contradictory.
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