Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Transportation/driving  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 17.07.2020, 17:59
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: zurich
Posts: 23
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
wpqs has no particular reputation at present
Re: Advice on tires

Ask to speak to Kevin Wardas. He speaks excellent English and is very helpful, unlike some of the senior managers at this garage.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 17.07.2020, 18:13
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: zurich
Posts: 23
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
wpqs has no particular reputation at present
Re: Advice on tires

I did some research after Emil Frey attempted to sell me 12 new tyres with my new Range Rover (8 for the old one, and 4 additional winter for new one). I discovered:


1. There is no requirement in Switzerland (or EU) to fit summer tyres so unless you're doing lots of miles or worried about an almost unmeasurable amount of road-noise then consider driving on winter tyres all year round. I made Range Rover check this with both the Swiss Authorities and the tyre manufacture. The wear characteristics for summer vs winter tyres are very similar, though clearly winter tyres perform much better in the snow and ice.



2. The police in Vaud measure tread depth at the edge of the tyre, but in the EU it's measured at the middle. There's a big difference for low profile tyres. In fact my new tyres were only just legal. Again, I got Range Rover to check this will the Swiss Authorities and discovered that due to the EU agreements tyres actually have to be measured from the middle in Switzerland. This makes sense as otherwise people coming from Europe might have to change their tyres at the border ;-)


By the way, I eventually compromised with Emil Frey and bought just four additional tyres.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 17.07.2020, 19:33
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Belmont
Posts: 141
Groaned at 13 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 170 Times in 57 Posts
Nocando is considered knowledgeableNocando is considered knowledgeableNocando is considered knowledgeable
Re: Advice on tires

Quote:
View Post
Yes, there is visible uneven wear on the right tyre in the left side of the picture - this is quite bad actually. There is also some visible on the left tyre too (on the right side of the picture - I can't figure out the direction of travel) but not as bad.

This to me for sure looks like an alignment issue - this can be fixed in a tyre shop with a laser alignment machine; the right tyre might need replacing even after alignment as it looks quite worn on that side, but the tyre shop will advise you better than me.

But as about fronts vs rears - the rears look quite new to me! If you bought the car at 18k, and done 25k more and these are the original tyres the tyre has done nearly 40k - that rear tyre does not look like a tyre that did 40k! It barely looks like a 15k tyre to me

Check the manufacturing date on the tyres:
https://www.kwik-fit.com/tyres/information/tyre-age
this may give you an idea if the rear tyres are newer. The date of manufacture may be 6months-1year before the date of fitting for new cars

The front tyres look normal-ish for 40k wear, looks like you still have about 1mm left until the wear marker (little strip on the main groove). That except the uneaven wear due to alignment for the right tyre.

Also you can check the thread depth with a simple coin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIkiCTx2XUM
When you do your servicing, the mechanic usually writes each tyre depth on the service sheet - do you have that?
The front tires are 0717 and the rear are 1617 so a difference of 9 weeks which I think is just a stocking issue.
Given that the car has run 45K kms, the summer tires would have run a max of 25K, so I think the rear tires are how they should be. I also looked at the winter tires ( all the same size ) and they look about as worn ( or as new ) as the current rear tires.
I am still within the free service parameters - last full service was in December when the car was fitted with winter tires. In any case all I got from them was the bill for consumables.
I will get the alignment checked to solve the uneven wearing but seems there is no reasonable explanation for why the front tires are behaving so differently?
Thanks for sharing your knowledge, dandi.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 17.07.2020, 21:34
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Near Luzern
Posts: 1,795
Groaned at 132 Times in 79 Posts
Thanked 2,456 Times in 1,064 Posts
Patxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond reputePatxi has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice on tires

I do love the tire threads on this forum!

Seriously, it is quite normal that the front tires will get worn more than the rear tires and that wear won't be uniform across the tire. As it's an X4, I suspect that you aren't just driving around town like my grandmother. 25 k is a bit low but not that surprising if you drive it in the mountains or on windy roads (turning, braking, etc.,..). It could be as simple as slightly low inflation pressures.

If it was me, I would just put on a set of new tires, inflate them properly and call it a day. Messing around with alignment seems over the top if you don't notice other handling issues.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Patxi for this useful post:
  #25  
Old 19.07.2020, 23:22
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basle
Posts: 2,742
Groaned at 72 Times in 57 Posts
Thanked 1,907 Times in 1,102 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice on tires

Quote:
View Post
BMW xDrive by default sends more power to the rear wheels than to the front (40% vs 60%).

isn't that less, not more? 40 is less than 60 I'm sure.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Landers for this useful post:
  #26  
Old 19.07.2020, 23:33
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,273
Groaned at 294 Times in 223 Posts
Thanked 18,937 Times in 6,603 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice on tires

Quote:
View Post
isn't that less, not more? 40 is less than 60 I'm sure.

Sorry, yes. 40% front, 60% rear.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 19.07.2020, 23:37
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basle
Posts: 2,742
Groaned at 72 Times in 57 Posts
Thanked 1,907 Times in 1,102 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice on tires

I agree - it looks like an alignment issue. Don't just get an alignment but have the suspension checked for wear. The rears look like they might be a little off too,



In general you should have your grippiest tyres on the rear. You also shouldn't in general change tyres front to back unless there's no tread-rounding on the fronts. The idea of both is to avoid snap-oversteer.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 21.07.2020, 03:02
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Pontresina GR, NH USA
Posts: 46
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 36 Times in 20 Posts
xcdave has earned some respectxcdave has earned some respect
Re: Advice on tires

Former Audi/VW mechanic taking the risk of weighing in on a BMW issue. As others have said, get your alignment and suspension components checked. Those front tires aren't experiencing normal wear. Your X4 is doing something to them. Vehicles that have a front engine (and even worse, a front engine and transaxle, which your vehicle likely doesn't have) rely on various suspension tricks to keep the vehicle reasonably balanced. Anything from worn struts to control arms or even subframe bushings can result in unusual front tire wear, and that's just the beginning of the list.

If you replace only the front tires, watch out in a year or two when the rear tires are getting worn but the front tires still have decent tread. That is when the vehicle might be inclined to quickly change directions without asking you first. Ditto from Day 1 if you simply purchase softer, more grippy tires for the front than you have in the rear.

TL DR: your X4 is telling you that something is wrong.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank xcdave for this useful post:
  #29  
Old 21.07.2020, 03:18
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Pontresina GR, NH USA
Posts: 46
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 36 Times in 20 Posts
xcdave has earned some respectxcdave has earned some respect
Re: Advice on tires

Quote:
View Post
Sorry, yes. 40% front, 60% rear.
Most applications of xDRIVE default to 37% front / 63% rear when working correctly. This system relies on clutch packs in the planetary gearset that can and do wear out. When that happens, the default is no longer 37/63. The complete failure mode is RWD; a partial failure mode is a different split and often driveline vibration. And then there are servo motors that can get stuck partially engaged.

The other system labeled xDRIVE is the Haldex-based system is nearly 100% to the front until slippage is detected. It's a simpler system, but less fun to drive.

Last edited by xcdave; 21.07.2020 at 03:29.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank xcdave for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 21.07.2020, 09:28
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,897
Groaned at 445 Times in 339 Posts
Thanked 22,043 Times in 11,455 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice on tires

Quote:
View Post
The front tires are 0717 and the rear are 1617 so a difference of 9 weeks which I think is just a stocking issue.
Given that the car has run 45K kms, the summer tires would have run a max of 25K, so I think the rear tires are how they should be. I also looked at the winter tires ( all the same size ) and they look about as worn ( or as new ) as the current rear tires.
I am still within the free service parameters - last full service was in December when the car was fitted with winter tires. In any case all I got from them was the bill for consumables.
I will get the alignment checked to solve the uneven wearing but seems there is no reasonable explanation for why the front tires are behaving so differently?
Thanks for sharing your knowledge, dandi.
Thats 9 years difference, not nine weeks, they were both manufactured the same week. Did you reverse the no's?
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 23.07.2020, 22:12
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Belmont
Posts: 141
Groaned at 13 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 170 Times in 57 Posts
Nocando is considered knowledgeableNocando is considered knowledgeableNocando is considered knowledgeable
Re: Advice on tires

As
Quote:
View Post
Thats 9 years difference, not nine weeks, they were both manufactured the same week. Did you reverse the no's?
Nope. Manufacturing date of tires is stamped on them in wwyy format.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 23.07.2020, 22:17
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Belmont
Posts: 141
Groaned at 13 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 170 Times in 57 Posts
Nocando is considered knowledgeableNocando is considered knowledgeableNocando is considered knowledgeable
Re: Advice on tires

Quote:
View Post
Former Audi/VW mechanic taking the risk of weighing in on a BMW issue. As others have said, get your alignment and suspension components checked. Those front tires aren't experiencing normal wear. Your X4 is doing something to them. Vehicles that have a front engine (and even worse, a front engine and transaxle, which your vehicle likely doesn't have) rely on various suspension tricks to keep the vehicle reasonably balanced. Anything from worn struts to control arms or even subframe bushings can result in unusual front tire wear, and that's just the beginning of the list.

If you replace only the front tires, watch out in a year or two when the rear tires are getting worn but the front tires still have decent tread. That is when the vehicle might be inclined to quickly change directions without asking you first. Ditto from Day 1 if you simply purchase softer, more grippy tires for the front than you have in the rear.

TL DR: your X4 is telling you that something is wrong.
Thanks for this.
The car is still under warranty and free service. I spoke to the BMW helpline and they asked me to speak to a service partner. I have written to the guy I normally deal with at Emil Frey Lausanne - not spoken to him because the guy's English is not great and I used Google Translate to compose a comprehensive note on the issue.
Been 3 days but no reply.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 24.07.2020, 10:12
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 540
Groaned at 44 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 579 Times in 320 Posts
dandi has an excellent reputationdandi has an excellent reputationdandi has an excellent reputationdandi has an excellent reputation
Re: Advice on tires

Just as a heads-up, not sure how it is in Switzerland but in UK wheel alignment and tyre wear issues were not covered by the warranty - tyres were considered "consumables" and alignment issues may be caused by the driver hitting a kerb/pothole etc. Be prepared for surprises in terms of costs and look into the warranty/service deal smallprint. But do try to get to the bottom of why the excessive wear on the front tyres overall, as this may be a mechanical issue
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank dandi for this useful post:
  #34  
Old 07.09.2020, 09:08
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Belmont
Posts: 141
Groaned at 13 Times in 8 Posts
Thanked 170 Times in 57 Posts
Nocando is considered knowledgeableNocando is considered knowledgeableNocando is considered knowledgeable
Re: Advice on tires

An update for the interested:
As per Emil Frey, 20K for tires to be worn out is not unreasonable. And despite 60% rear wheel drive, front tires getting worn out is not unusual. I was told they could check the geometry but were blank when I asked about suspension issues. They were frankly quite disinterested.
Anyway, I got the geometry checked and rectified and when I took the car back, there were no comments. Have to hope that some magic happened when they were tinkering around and my new tires last. Overall a very unsatisfactory experience.
The shocker - they added 40 odd francs to the bill for "advice".
Last time I go to Emil Frey even if I have to drive a 100 kms.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Nocando for this useful post:
  #35  
Old 07.09.2020, 13:21
NickGB's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Zug
Posts: 979
Groaned at 10 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 1,291 Times in 515 Posts
NickGB has a reputation beyond reputeNickGB has a reputation beyond reputeNickGB has a reputation beyond reputeNickGB has a reputation beyond reputeNickGB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Advice on tires

I have heard really terrible things about Emil Frey service from a friend who bought a Range Rover from them. I must say that the service I received from Binelli BMW was always so good, from a sales and service perspective.

I must say though that my X5 also chews through tires and often, due to the way it wears the tires (Creating a sawtooth shape on the blocks) I have to get rid of them before they are worn, due to the noise. (I have had the best experience with Pirelli tires in avoiding this)
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 07.09.2020, 14:01
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,393
Groaned at 24 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 1,038 Times in 614 Posts
Meerkat33 is considered knowledgeableMeerkat33 is considered knowledgeableMeerkat33 is considered knowledgeable
Re: Advice on tires

Quote:
View Post
The shocker - they added 40 odd francs to the bill for "advice".
Sounds like a doctor bill. Unacceptable considering talking is part of the process of you buying their stuff and services.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Meerkat33 for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
When should I switch my winter tires for summer tires? Patxi Transportation/driving 62 14.04.2020 14:58
When should I change my car tires? tadi Transportation/driving 10 18.06.2014 20:57
Where do you get your tires from? jjrb37 Transportation/driving 26 03.11.2013 10:18
Tires Dumped Confloozed Daily life 12 10.11.2012 02:00
Must all four tires be identical? richardm Transportation/driving 22 09.01.2012 17:12


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:28.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0