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Old 08.08.2020, 15:30
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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To not change the direction of this post. I drive all over around Europe.
I obey limits because it is law but clearly in Switzerland they do not know how to drive.
I guess that you've never driven in Portugal, then.

They are the worst I've ever seen.

Tom
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Old 08.08.2020, 15:43
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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To not change the direction of this post. I drive all over around Europe.
I obey limits because it is law but clearly in Switzerland they do not know how to drive.

Any Swiss champion of Rally? Of course not, it is needed judgement skills.

If you read Road Safety Worldwide reports where i am very involved because i love auto sport and defensive drive you can see Pedestrians killed and cyclists Switzerland is in top of 2010-2020.

This is because of no training how a car brakes. Most of swiss people i asked to show me how to break to 80 to 0 they lock the breaks.

People here cross the zebras with phones on their heads. Cyclists have no idea. I have talked to many and they do not know the right side of a car is a blind spot. Oh my god...any kid with 5 in Portugal knows that.

What law people do? Reduce speed....what about not reduce speed and educate people and how to behave? Only in Switzerland
Portugal????? Probably the craziest drivers in Europe 😅
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Old 08.08.2020, 16:41
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone


https://www.itf-oecd.org/sites/defau...eport-2019.pdf

Figure 10. Percentage change in the number of cyclists killed, 2010-17

Switzerland really red

If you work in Sensor area, you know the problem is what have been saying here. People needs traffic signals to tell them...oh here is 40...oh here is 60.

Now the latest developments is when to park know if you can open a door. New development for cars is a sensor to measure if a bike is approaching by right side in a traffic light? Really? Come on mate, are people drivers or just lazy? Never heard any problems with bikes in my hometown.

In Zurich, Since 2011 when i arrived.

PS: The purpose of my post was to just judge the law is the law. If you judge so harsh someone doing 100 in an area that was 80 i also judge the same. Anyone with 5 years driving experience should be forced to do any special rally stage: Tarmac, gravel, handbrake, airpins. If it failed come on give your driving license son

Last edited by Superfast; 08.08.2020 at 16:53.
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Old 08.08.2020, 17:08
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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Tarmac, gravel, handbrake, airpins. If it failed come on give your driving license son
I'm with you, I reckon I'd nail that test. I'm awesome at air guitar, I'm sure I could conquer airpins in no time flat.
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  #45  
Old 08.08.2020, 18:09
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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To not change the direction of this post. I drive all over around Europe.
I obey limits because it is law but clearly in Switzerland they do not know how to drive.
Oh they do. It's just that they've adjusted their driving laws to accomodate stupid foreigners.
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Old 08.08.2020, 19:32
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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Oh they do. It's just that they've adjusted their driving laws to accomodate stupid foreigners.
Reads like sarcasm but has its truth. To understand what has happened we have to go back to the year 1999 when in Gelfingen LU two young men where performing a race on the public roads. One of them lost control of its car while he was entering a town with 130 km/h. In the processed he grazed down two teenagers which were walking on the side walk. Both were instantly dead.

At the end of the legal process which took several years and ended at the Swiss federal court both drivers were sentenced to 6 years of jail and expulsion from the country.
http://www.news.ch/Raser+von+Gelfing...182/detail.htm

During the course of the early 2000' various other such incidents happened on the Swiss streets and innocent pedestrians or other car driver died. Those incidents are known as: "Raser von XX" (Speeder from XX). Like Raser von Jona, Raser von Schönenwerd, Raser von Muri, Raser von Mumpf, etc. Very so often young foreigners.

The Swiss populace had enough, or as we say in German "hatte die Schnauze voll", and did what it usually does in such circumstance: Collect signatures to get a popular vote and change the constitution (which hopefully in the end will also change the law). This was at the end of 2009. RoadCross, the organization which started the collection process manged to gather the 100k signatures within the prescribed time.
https://www.aargauerzeitung.ch/schwe...eckung-7788393

The organization wanted that certain speeding infraction must be handled with a jail sentence (can be suspended). Coincidentally the Swiss Minister for Transport Mr. Leuenberg also pursued the so called Vision Zero, the dream of zero road deaths. (See Vesipo report
from 2002 http://www.astra2.admin.ch/media/pdf...-01_2024_f.pdf )

It took some more years and discussions in the parliament. But in 2013 the law was changed w/o a need to change the constitution. It was a whole package of road law changes which is known as Via Sicura ( Strassenverkehrsgesetz, Änderung vom 15. Juni 2012 (BBl 2012 5959) ). A few of these changes are still not yet in force and can be 'activated' if needed.

With this changes also the the recommended fines and penalties of some lesser speeding infraction were increased. See: Serious Speeding - the law, the fines.
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Old 08.08.2020, 19:36
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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Reads like sarcasm but has its truth.
Well, sarcasm isn't necessarily not true. But I was going for irony.
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Old 08.08.2020, 19:44
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

Gotta love Buenzli-land....perfectly legal to get a hooker and some cocaine on Langstrasse but if you go a few km/h over the speed limit a little grey envelope awaits you with a CHF 40 fine!
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  #49  
Old 08.08.2020, 20:11
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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Gotta love Buenzli-land....perfectly legal to get a hooker and some cocaine on Langstrasse but if you go a few km/h over the speed limit a little grey envelope awaits you with a CHF 40 fine!
Even what was explained makes no sense: 2 people race and lets prejudice everyone.
In order for zero death on road they need to know that we have an aging population.

From the articles below you can find that : "Furthermore, we noticed that most E-bike injuries were caused by self-accident and a significant percentage of accidents were attributed to being caught in a tram rail.

So the risk group is 65+ and even higher 75+ using slow e-bikes and getting self-inflicted or caught in tram rail.

But lets super punish someone 100 in a 80 zone. Thats really dangerous

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/emi/2014/850236/


https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/road-de...third/44874308

Safety measures
These e-bike figures are the highest ever recorded and reflect the increasing popularity of e-bikes in Switzerland. Of the 321 deaths or serious injuries, 236 were on slow e-bikes (up to 25km/h) and 85 on fast ones.



For whom follows Via secura as explained before:
https://www.itf-oecd.org/sites/defau...oad-safety.pdf
Analysis of fatalities by road type shows that the rural road network is the deadliest.
In 2018, 48% of deaths occurred on rural roads, 44% on urban roads and 8% on
motorways


I really appreciate via secura stating:
In most cases, inappropriate speed is to blame rather than excessive speed.

For those who do participate in competition here is the explanation:
Excessive speed is where a driver exceeds the posted speed limit. For example, if the limit is 50km/h and the driver drives at 60km/h, this is excessive speed.

Inappropriate speed is where the driver drives within the speed limit, but not for the conditions of the road. An example would be a driver that drives at 90km/h on a rural road in thick fog.

Last edited by Superfast; 08.08.2020 at 20:45.
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  #50  
Old 08.08.2020, 22:01
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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Gotta love Buenzli-land....perfectly legal to get a hooker and some cocaine on Langstrasse but if you go a few km/h over the speed limit a little grey envelope awaits you with a CHF 40 fine!
Not sure who told you cocaine was legal but I would be careful gettting further legal advice from them.
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Old 08.08.2020, 22:17
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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As an ex-HWP officer I can recommend the following:
[...] unfortunately in Switzerland for speeding they are disproportionately severe.
A long list of meaningful, useful hints, why put this end? Switzerland has a decent sistem of punishments, the issue is that in other countries they are disproportinately light (and ineffective, I'd suggest).

Check the statistics for death on the roads for Switzerland and *any country you deem consequences are not disproportionate*

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In most cases, inappropriate speed is to blame rather than excessive speed.
Very true: in fact excessive speed is ALWAYS inappropriate. Then, sometimes, below-the -limit speed is also inappropriate. Let's start wit hthe easy-peasy, and punish heavily the ones above speed limits. Then we can think about "educating" the part-time careless drivers...
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Old 08.08.2020, 22:38
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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Gotta love Buenzli-land....perfectly legal to get a hooker and some cocaine on Langstrasse but if you go a few km/h over the speed limit a little grey envelope awaits you with a CHF 40 fine!
That's not true, the hookers always rejected me as a kid.
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Old 09.08.2020, 14:48
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

1. You only want to stick to laws that you think are sensible
2. You're not paying enough attention, so you missed the limits
3. You're unable to control your car's speed

2 and 3 indicate you're not fit to drive
1 indicates you're an antisocial idiot

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In most cases, inappropriate speed is to blame rather than excessive speed.
This is true. However, when it comes to prevent accidents, it's been shown pretty globally, than enforcing speed limits (hence reducing excessive speed) is an effective way of reducing inappropriate speed. It's easier to enforce laws about excessive speed than inappropriate speed. Although inappropriate speed below the limit can land you with a dangerous driving prosecution.

That's why they do it.

If you're doing 100 in an 80 limit then one of more of these applies:
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Old 09.08.2020, 15:15
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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To not change the direction of this post. I drive all over around Europe.
I obey limits because it is law but clearly in Switzerland they do not know how to drive.

Any Swiss champion of Rally? Of course not, it is needed judgement skills.

If you read Road Safety Worldwide reports where i am very involved because i love auto sport and defensive drive you can see Pedestrians killed and cyclists Switzerland is in top of 2010-2020.

This is because of no training how a car brakes. Most of swiss people i asked to show me how to break to 80 to 0 they lock the breaks.

People here cross the zebras with phones on their heads. Cyclists have no idea. I have talked to many and they do not know the right side of a car is a blind spot. Oh my god...any kid with 5 in Portugal knows that.

What law people do? Reduce speed....what about not reduce speed and educate people and how to behave? Only in Switzerland

Not sure about the data personally; but the cause could be enforcing the priorities. Pedestrian jump on the zebra crossing considering by the power of god 100% of vehicles will stop as it’s their priority ??? Without any consideration on the situation of a heavy truck driver, weather condition etc. same applies to cyclist who fail to follow traffic rules including red lights at times.
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Old 09.08.2020, 21:16
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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Not sure about the data personally; but the cause could be enforcing the priorities. Pedestrian jump on the zebra crossing considering by the power of god 100% of vehicles will stop as it’s their priority ???
I do not know if you are aware but laws of physics have some centuries now:


Speed Reaction distance Braking distance Total stopping distance
40km/h 17m 9m 26m
50km/h 21m 14m 35m

So if a pedestrian jump to a zebra and expects a car that is 10 meters or less from him to stop this in some countries is called suicide.

I am really happy i was raised where a pedestrian can not jump into a zebra. He can use the zebra with some rules but CAN not jump


Regarding stats you can do like Trump or you can research yourself:

According to the latest available data, 233 persons lost their lives in traffic crashes in Switzerland in 2018. This represents a 1.3% increase on 2017. In 2017, 230 road deaths were reported - a 6.5% increase on 2016. The longer-term trend for road deaths in Switzerland has been impressive.



PS: I also expect people to know that a car in 2019 does not compare to 2005. We are talking about tyre technology, active and passive assistance and so on. I expect if cars have radars, emergency brakes and all evolution that alone reduce the accidents.

Last edited by Superfast; 09.08.2020 at 21:34.
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Old 09.08.2020, 22:41
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

There are more cars and more powerful cars on the road, as well as more people.
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Old 10.08.2020, 10:00
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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I do not know if you are aware but laws of physics have some centuries now:

Speed Reaction distance Braking distance Total stopping distance
40km/h 17m 9m 26m
50km/h 21m 14m 35m

So if a pedestrian jump to a zebra and expects a car that is 10 meters or less from him to stop this in some countries is called suicide.

I am really happy i was raised where a pedestrian can not jump into a zebra. He can use the zebra with some rules but CAN not jump.
That happened to me a couple months ago on a 50 km/h zone.

A kid (8-10 years old?) was walking on the sidewalk to my right talking to other kids on the opposite sidewalk. It was possible to infer this because the kid was walking while not looking in front of him, but looking at the other kids. It was cloudy with light rain, larger drops start to fall, kid #1 starts running for cover, and jumps into a zebra pass to join the other kids to my left.

After I noticed the whole thing, I lifted my foot from the gas and pressed the brake smoothly, maybe slowing from 50-55 to 40 km/h. After the kid jumped into the zebra, just pushed to the brake to the bottom. The car stopped without drama, no even tire squeal. Kid stopped just in the middle of my lane when he sensed something coming his way. If he had kept running he might have passed even if I don't brake. But humans are humans, jumping into the zebra is mistake #1 and stopping there like a confused deer after jumping is mistake #2.

So, it happens, and when it happens every decision of the pedestrian is for the worse. Education, cultural differences, whatever....all that matters is braking on time. After all, a city is made for people (speed limits: 20,30, 50 km/h), not for cars. Motor vehicles become the main users of the road/space above 80 km/h.
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Old 10.08.2020, 10:09
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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PS: I also expect people to know that a car in 2019 does not compare to 2005. We are talking about tyre technology, active and passive assistance and so on. I expect if cars have radars, emergency brakes and all evolution that alone reduce the accidents.
Of course all them cars from 2005-2019 magically vanished once they started selling 2020 cars.

Your speed should be based on information of what's happening around you. If you don't have that information you should slow down. With the information you have you should next determine where you are on the road, then what speed you are going.
As per Axa's example, you see kids around you, information is that there's unpredictable people about, you position yourself for better visibility, and this might include slowing down.

Out the country when I have a clear view of corners I open up a lot more, when I can't see as far as I can brake, I slow down.

Take a look at IPSGA if you're interested.
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Old 10.08.2020, 10:34
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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Any Swiss champion of Rally? Of course not, it is needed judgement skills.

Using your logic, if you check the death ration of rally drivers you will find out that they cannot drive lol


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If you read Road Safety Worldwide reports where i am very involved because i love auto sport and defensive drive you can see Pedestrians killed and cyclists Switzerland is in top of 2010-2020.
No it is not! Maybe your report had 15 countries only?


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This is because of no training how a car brakes. Most of swiss people i asked to show me how to break to 80 to 0 they lock the breaks.
What is the right way? you try to outperform the ABS system?



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What law people do? Reduce speed....what about not reduce speed and educate people and how to behave? Only in Switzerland
We should teach people to run away from cars racing through the town? as they may lose control and run you over? and if you are old I guess we should just not allow them outside as they are not fast enough to react to the modern world
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Old 10.08.2020, 10:41
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

I agree with all that in 50s zones and i really like 30 zones.

We were talking about a 80 zone downgraded to 60.


But funny i found an article with same view from some years ago: This will be an endless discussion.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/switzer...0study%20found.


"However, the Swiss Transport and Environment Association says the solution to saving lives lies elsewhere.

"The most effective way of protecting the most vulnerable people road users is lowering speed limits – right next to schools, residential and built-up areas and tram and bus stops," said Christine Steinmann, the association's project leader for road safety.

Speed restrictions result in fewer fatal accidents involving pedestrians, she said.

But the TCS dismisses a general reduction in speed limits. "There's no point," Müller said. "What's needed is simply more discipline and care – from pedestrians as well as from drivers."

Last edited by Superfast; 10.08.2020 at 11:03.
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