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Old 10.08.2020, 11:21
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

Street lightning is sooo underrated. People doesn't exactly wear with the most visible colors, at least not the elderly. Nowadays there's a nice lamp for zebra crossings that projects a rectangle of intense light just for it. On the other hand, there's people that want want to turn off street lamps after a certain hour in the night in French-speaking Switzerland. My car has good headlights no prob, but I see a lot of cars with poor lights or only 1 headlight, thus street lamps are vital.

My only issue with speed limits in Switzerland is why buses, medium-size trucks and some larger vans are allowed to travel at 120 km/h on the highway. Those vehicles cannot stop in a reasonable distance or dodge any obstacle without ending on their sides. These large and poor handling vehicles should go at 90 km/h as big trucks.

Back to topic, any update LuganoPirate?
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Old 10.08.2020, 11:32
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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No it is not! Maybe your report had 15 countries only?


Regarding people having to escape: We are talking about city planning: In Wipkingen (Nordstrasse). How do people cross? Follwiing the pedestrian tunnel under road. You can also build over the road. That is how sensible planning works.

Regarding accidents you should always count serious injuries also.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/road-de...on%20e%2Dbikes.

Notable changes on the previous year included fewer deaths on motorways and zebra crossings but more pedestrian deaths outside designated crossing zones

Last edited by Superfast; 10.08.2020 at 11:48.
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  #63  
Old 10.08.2020, 11:43
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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We were talking about a 80 zone downgraded to 60.
Where?

Tom
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  #64  
Old 10.08.2020, 11:43
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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Back to topic, any update LuganoPirate?
I had to drive on that road yesterday, and I must say the signs showing "60" are certainly plentiful and large enough!

My wife who is from Lugano bumped into an old police friend from school days. He told her it very much depends on how apologetic he is, and if he accepts what he did. It seems he can accept the penalty from them, or elect to go in front of a judge. While the penalty states 3 months minimum ban, they do have discretion in both the period and the fine. So it could be just a 1 month ban.

She called the police and they have agreed to let her attend as a translator as his Italian is limited.

The hearing is set for early September so I'll update you as to what happened.
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Old 10.08.2020, 11:43
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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My only issue with speed limits in Switzerland is why buses, medium-size trucks and some larger vans are allowed to travel at 120 km/h on the highway. Those vehicles cannot stop in a reasonable distance or dodge any obstacle without ending on their sides. These large and poor handling vehicles should go at 90 km/h as big trucks.
Big trucks (more than 3.5t) are limited to 80 km/h. Same goes for any vehicle towing a trailer.
Busses with more than 9 seats, Coaches and RVs over 3.5t are limited to 100 km/h.

But yes there are some < 3.5t transport vehicles who might have insufficient brakes for 120 km/h when they are fully loaded. In addition they can be operated during night time and are not fully subject to the drivers' working hours regulations.
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Old 10.08.2020, 11:49
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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While the penalty states 3 months minimum ban, they do have discretion in both the period and the fine. So it could be just a 1 month ban.
The discretion is very limited. If judge/prosecutor says it was an infraction of Art. 90 Abs. 2 SVG the ban must be 3 months. There is not much of leeway.
Please see Serious Speeding - the law, the fines. for references.
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Old 10.08.2020, 12:34
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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We were talking about a 80 zone downgraded to 60.
Just to add what is often forgotten, roads are speed downgraded also for noise control reasons, particularly in heavily populated areas - which is the case for this stretch of road.

There are many stretches of roads in CH that could support a higher limit safety-wise, but have what appear to be lower speed limits because there are houses nearby.

There is talk to limit the entire stretch of motorway on the north of Lausanne to 100 from 120 for this reason only...
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  #68  
Old 10.08.2020, 12:42
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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Where?

Tom
In 1st Post:

"It's not really clear what the limit is till you see the sign. He thought it was an 80 limit, which is what it used to be until they lowered it."
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  #69  
Old 10.08.2020, 14:54
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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In 1st Post:

"It's not really clear what the limit is till you see the sign. He thought it was an 80 limit, which is what it used to be until they lowered it."
Yes, but that is wrong, it was never 80 there, at least not in the past 34 years.

I stated this before, and was backed up by several others.

Tom
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Old 10.08.2020, 14:59
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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We were talking about a 80 zone downgraded to 60.
Except that it was never 80, and was never downgraded.

Tom
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Old 10.08.2020, 15:04
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

This bit of road has always been a fave of the 5-0 as they have a big depot up there as you go into Grancia. They usually sit here IIRC: https://www.google.ch/maps/@45.98949...7i13312!8i6656
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Old 10.08.2020, 15:13
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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Except that it was never 80, and was never downgraded.
It is actually the other way. It starts as an urban road elevated to 60 km/h, and stays at 60 km/h just before the autobahn starts. From there it goes 80 - 120 - 100 (they forgot a speed sign on the autobahn sign). There is no 80 zone what so ever.
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Old 10.08.2020, 18:25
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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But funny i found an article with same view from some years ago: This will be an endless discussion.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/switzer...0study%20found.
This article is from 2008, the number of road deaths has been halved since.
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Old 11.08.2020, 08:00
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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A long list of meaningful, useful hints, why put this end? Switzerland has a decent sistem of punishments, the issue is that in other countries they are disproportinately light (and ineffective, I'd suggest).
Well I don't think I deserved a groan for that...

"Exceeding the speed limit" and "Driving at a dangerous speed" are not mutually inclusive. Speed limits should be set at the 85th percentile, but in many cases they are reduced to either eliminate emissions or noise. Or in some cities (Zürich and Luzern especially), to raise revenue.

In Switzerland, doing 110-120 on an open 80 road will get you a criminal conviction. In my experience in traffic enforcement, danger must be proven to justify a severe punishment.

I still believe Switzerland has a bigger problem with seatbelts and drug/alchohol than speeding.
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Old 11.08.2020, 08:36
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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This article is from 2008, the number of road deaths has been halved since.
Thank you. Here's a rather impressive graph illustrating this, from the Swiss Federal Statistical Office:
https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home...accidents.html

That site carries the polite reminder:
Our English pages offer only a limited range of information on our statistical production. For our full range please consult our pages in French and German (top right hand screen).
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  #76  
Old 11.08.2020, 10:35
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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This article is from 2008, the number of road deaths has been halved since.
Unfortunately for Switzerland i could not find data (not EU) but for EU the data is really alarming: (deaths went down 50%, but injuries is almost same, some countries even more).

Or the definition of injuries changed (the data was 2007 vs 2017 and for example Germany was more injuries).

For me it is also important to avoid accidents and not only number of deaths. But this is another topic. Personally and that is why i am thanking all your effort replying to me (i really learn with you) i do not think radars avoid accidents.

I also do not understand Zurich where they put green light for cars and next turn it is green for pedestrians. It is really helpful (NOT). If a traffic light is for a turn (imagine right) and is green please put red for pedestrians. Works better.

My experience as passenger (in Switzerland i only do PKW) is people are really worried with speed camera, red light camera and not looking to surrounds. I feel danger for accidents. In this case makes sense speed is 30. Adjust speed to these kind of drivers.


PS; The data is here
https://www.pordata.pt/en/Europe/Fat...accidents-3045

Example:
Sweden: Deaths 745 to 253
Injuries: 21057 to 19662

So from 1991 to 2017 (more than 25 years) the injuries are same. Big progress in deaths (30%) but injuries we have a long way.

Last edited by Superfast; 11.08.2020 at 11:00.
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Old 11.08.2020, 10:59
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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I also do not understand Zurich where they put green light for cars and next turn it is green for pedestrians. It is really helpful (NOT). If a traffic light is for a turn (imagine right) and is green please put red for pedestrians. Works better.

My experience as passenger (in Switzerland i only do PKW) is people are really worried with speed camera, red light camera and not looking to surrounds. I feel danger for accidents. In this case makes sense speed is 30. Adjust speed to these kind of drivers.
The green light for both pedestrians and cars means that pedestrians don't spend so long waiting at lights, I like it when I'm a pedestrian, and look out for it when I'm driving. Most of these lights are for when you are leaving the main road and turning across the pedestrians main path.

I don't worry about red light cameras as I've figured a foolproof way to not care about them. I don't enter a junction unless I can clear it and the light is green. Problem solved.

Speed cameras on the other hand can be combated by both watching out for speed limit signs, cruise control, and not booting it around all the time.
As far as being afraid of accidents, I'm more often concerned about someone running up my hole by not keeping adequate distance than I am about what's happening in front. I allow the car in front adequate distance, not for them, but for me to have a better view of the road.
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Old 11.08.2020, 11:06
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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Unfortunately for Switzerland i could not find data (not EU) but for EU the data is really alarming: (deaths went down 50%, but injuries is almost same, some countries even more).
See Page 15 of the BFU SINUS Report.
https://www.bfu.ch/api/publications/...ehr%202017.pdf

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I also do not understand Zurich where they put green light for cars and next turn it is green for pedestrians. It is really helpful (NOT). If a traffic light is for a turn (imagine right) and is green please put red for pedestrians. Works better.
Hey. It is the same in New York. And many other cities. If the through lane has green, so have the pedestrians at the side road crossings.
What should not happen is that pedestrians have green if only the turning light but not the through lane is green.
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Old 11.08.2020, 11:51
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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I also do not understand Zurich where they put green light for cars and next turn it is green for pedestrians. It is really helpful (NOT). If a traffic light is for a turn (imagine right) and is green please put red for pedestrians. Works better.
Zürich is fine because cities should be livable for people, cars are not the priority. I like my life with a car, thus I live outside a city center where parking is cheap are traffic lights are only for the main intersection in the town center, the autobahn is 1 km away and there are plenty of 80 km/h back country roads around. If you really like cars and driving, Zürich (or any other city) is not the place to be. Driving there is a chore or a paid job, not a pleasure.
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Old 11.08.2020, 11:55
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

Isn't this about some person who wellied it up what might look like an autostrada but was a 60?

The debate about rights and wrongs of light sequencing and injuries/deaths are a bit ming-mong, ping-pong and should be in their own thread
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