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  #81  
Old 13.08.2020, 11:45
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

Short update. My wife spoke again to the police, who told her he was doing 49, less the margin for security = 43kph over. So we now know what he has done.

As he is not contesting it, It will be a license suspension for 3 months plus a fine to be determined after he has filled in some forms. He'll get a note in he criminal register but it won't affect his permit or job application.

It also seems the more genuine contrition he shows, the fact he is not going with a lawyer and is admitting the offense, will also determine the financial penalty he faces.

I'll keep you updated.
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Old 13.08.2020, 13:00
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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Short update. My wife spoke again to the police, who told her he was doing 49, less the margin for security = 43kph over. So we now know what he has done.

As he is not contesting it, It will be a license suspension for 3 months plus a fine to be determined after he has filled in some forms. He'll get a note in he criminal register but it won't affect his permit or job application.

It also seems the more genuine contrition he shows, the fact he is not going with a lawyer and is admitting the offense, will also determine the financial penalty he faces.

I'll keep you updated.
wow, clocked at 49 above the speed limit...that must have been around 115 on the speedometer
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  #83  
Old 13.08.2020, 13:36
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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wow, clocked at 49 above the speed limit...that must have been around 115 on the speedometer
I think we've thoroughly established that he has been a very silly boy. He is also an incredibly lucky boy to have someone look out for him like this, because if his driving bravado is anything to go by, he may not have responded in a way that would have helped his case
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  #84  
Old 13.08.2020, 14:08
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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As he is not contesting it, It will be a license suspension for 3 months plus a fine to be determined after he has filled in some forms. He'll get a note in he criminal register but it won't affect his permit or job application.
It will affect his insurance and may jeopardise any citizenship application.
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Old 13.08.2020, 15:10
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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I think we've thoroughly established that he has been a very silly boy. He is also an incredibly lucky boy to have someone look out for him like this, because if his driving bravado is anything to go by, he may not have responded in a way that would have helped his case
He realises it and the police said to my wife, he's young, and unfortunately the young do silly things!! Actually you could not hope to meet a nicer, humble and more polite person than he is. He's been a tenant more than 5 years and is good friends with my son. Never had any problems with him so we'll be sorry to see him eventually go.

Consequently we're only too happy to help him out over this.
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Old 13.08.2020, 15:58
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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It will affect his insurance and may jeopardise any citizenship application.
No it won't. That's already been confirmed by a friend who works for the ministry as well as the police. It will only affect him if he does it again.
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Old 14.08.2020, 09:57
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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No it won't. That's already been confirmed by a friend who works for the ministry as well as the police. It will only affect him if he does it again.
You have to be veeeery convincing to apply successfully for citizenship if you have a criminal record...
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Old 14.08.2020, 10:41
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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No it won't. That's already been confirmed by a friend who works for the ministry as well as the police. It will only affect him if he does it again.
It is dependent on the community/canton that assesses the application (which is why I qualified my statement with "may jeopardise"). I do know someone who was rejected for normal citizenship in the Zurich area due to a criminal register entry for speeding.

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You have to be veeeery convincing to apply successfully for citizenship if you have a criminal record...
Or a very good taxpayer...
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Old 14.08.2020, 11:18
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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You have to be veeeery convincing to apply successfully for citizenship if you have a criminal record...
The speeder in question might get a monetary penalty of around 40 - 60 days. For first time offenders it is usually suspended for two years (plus a hefty fine, and court fess, and administrative fees, etc.)

According the SEM handbook on citizenship a supended sentence might hinter naturalization during the probation period plus 6 months.
https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/de/home...rgerrecht.html

According the canton Zurich (other cantons might be more strict) for permit C a sentence of 90 days is considered as non-compliance with the Swiss law and order which might prevent a successful permit C application. It is not specifically stated but it might be that for permit C based on good integration they are more strict than for regular C after 5/10 years.
https://www.zh.ch/content/dam/zhweb/...igung%20IW.pdf
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Old 03.09.2020, 10:06
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

Today was the day, early start to be on time and our tenant was faced with a very friendly policeman, one only, who took the statement. Tenant explained he thought it was highway, they were going to MacDonalds, very contrite and apologetic etc. though it was my wife who did most of the talking!

The dossier will now be sent to the public prosecutor and he was told most likely he'll get a 3 month ban and a CHF 900 fine. + a daily rate which will be suspended for 2 years. It will also be entered on the criminal register.

Interestingly, the policeman also said about half of all the speeding cases concern that stretch of road. People think it's the beginning of the highway, put their foot down, and go. The Lugano police know this so when they need to raise some money, they put up the camera trap!!!

I'll let you know the final verdict.
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Old 07.09.2020, 09:17
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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Interestingly, the policeman also said about half of all the speeding cases concern that stretch of road. People think it's the beginning of the highway, put their foot down, and go. The Lugano police know this so when they need to raise some money, they put up the camera trap!!!
The road authorities here unfortunately ignore the 85th percentile when setting the speed limit. Enforcing this so surreptitiously defies the spirit of traffic enforcement.
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Old 07.09.2020, 13:22
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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So from 1991 to 2017 (more than 25 years) the injuries are same. Big progress in deaths (30%) but injuries we have a long way.

Before you judge, please keep in mind, those who might have previously died from their accidents might now contribute to the injury statistics. Which would count as a double improvement in my mind (reduction from death to injury, and also reduction of number of injuries)


Wikipedia reference-linkSurvivorship_bias


Also, from 1991 to 2017 there was a not quite 50% increase in motorized vehicles registered in Switzerland.
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Old 07.10.2020, 16:52
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

Another update. Our tenant just received 2 letters from the authorities. One is information and the other laying out what will now happen.

He's been informed there will be two cases, a criminal one - which most likely will be a heavy fine, and an administrative one which will deal with the license suspension. He's also been told in addition to the penalties he'll have to pay all the costs of the court, the police etc.

He now has 20 days to make any comments, and ask for leniency, but he has to justify it. However, they tell him that the loss of license, or the fine, cannot under any circumstances be less than the minimum prescribed by law.

If he wishes he can send his license in at any time within the next six months - but no later. If he is banned for 3 months for example, the time will start from the postmark on the envelope and the license will then be returned. If he doesn't the time will start from the end of the six month period. If he has another license, he must not drive on Swiss Territory, though he's free to drive anywhere else - until the end of the suspension period.

This is separate from the criminal case which can be heard anytime after the 20 days for submissions. He does not have to attend the court.

If he should leave the country and de-register, he will have to deposit a "caution", the amount to be determined by the police.

I'll keep you updated as to the eventual penalty.
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Old 17.10.2020, 17:50
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

Final Update:
Our tenant received the following penalties:


Fine: CHF 1,300
License suspended for 3 months


Criminal penalty: CHF 6,000 suspended for 2 years.
As long as he commits no offense in Switzerland he will not have to pay this. At the end of the 2 years the offense will be removed from the criminal register.


The costs of the case have yet to be sent to him.


All in all I think he got off lightly, but he seems to have learned his lesson!!
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Old 18.10.2020, 00:35
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

I witnessed somebody driving like this. After passing me on the inside, 100km/h in a 60 zone, they lost control and had a head on collision.


Driver and passenger walked away unharmed.


The police spent many hours talking to me, the main witness to this incident in the middle of the night.


Driver and passenger had both pointed the finger at each other and the police hoped I could help identify the real culprit.


The main thing on our minds, of course, is what happened to the family in the other car they collided with.
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Old 19.10.2020, 10:41
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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Final Update:
Our tenant received the following penalties:


Fine: CHF 1,300
License suspended for 3 months


Criminal penalty: CHF 6,000 suspended for 2 years.
As long as he commits no offense in Switzerland he will not have to pay this. At the end of the 2 years the offense will be removed from the criminal register.


The costs of the case have yet to be sent to him.


All in all I think he got off lightly, but he seems to have learned his lesson!!
Hope he learned the lesson, albeit I'd have learned the lesson with 500 fine

Just for curiosity, what kind of offense can trigger the 6000 fine suspended for 2 years? Passing a red light? Or another serious offense like speeding 40 km/h above the limit?
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Old 19.10.2020, 11:29
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

Sorry, a small correction. He told me the fine by phone, but now I've an actual copy of the letter he was a bit mistaken:


Fine = CHF 900
Court fee = CHF 100
Costs = CHF 200


Total: CHF 1,200 (In total, not CHF1,300 exc. costs)
If the fine is not paid, he will be sentenced to 9 days in prison


Then, 60 days "aliquote giornaliere" of CHF 100 each day for a total of CHF6,000 suspended for 3 years (not 2).


He may appeal this within 10 days if he wishes - but he won't!


We are not sure how long it stays on the record. It says it will be eliminated according to art. 369 CPS??
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Old 19.10.2020, 11:43
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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Just for curiosity, what kind of offense can trigger the 6000 fine suspended for 2 years? Passing a red light? Or another serious offense like speeding 40 km/h above the limit?
Any traffic violation according Art. 90 Abs. 2 SVG (misdemeanor) instead of just Art. 90 Abs. 1 SVG (contravention). (Art. 90 SVG has staggering penalties for more and more serious offenses). Suspension of the monetary penalty is an option for first time offenders. Monetary penalties can be for up to 180 "days", where each day is approx your daily income. monetary penalties are used in lieu of short prison sentences (keeps the prison population low and is more cost effective as prison is quite expensive). -

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Art. 90 SVG

1 Anyone who violates the traffic rules of this law or the enforcement regulations of the Bundesrat will be punished by a fine.

2 Anyone who causes or accepts a serious threat to the safety of others by grossly violating traffic regulations will be punished with imprisonment of up to three years or a monetary penalty.

3 A prison sentence of between one and four years is imposed on anyone who, by deliberately violating elementary traffic rules, runs the high risk of an accident resulting in serious injury or death, namely by particularly blatant disregard of the permitted maximum speed limit, reckless overtaking, or participation in an unauthorized race with motor vehicles.

4 Paragraph 3 is fulfilled in any case, if the permissible maximum speed is exceeded by:
a. at least 40 km/h, where the maximum speed is not more than 30 km/h
b. at least 50 km/h, where the maximum speed is at most 50 km/h;
c. at least 60 km/h, where the maximum speed is 80 km/h or less;
d. at least 80 km/h, where the maximum speed is more than 80 km/h.
By definition anything mentioned in the "price list" a.k.a Ordnungsbussenverordnung is Art. 90 Abs. 1 SVG. In addition anything from the "price list" will NOT lead to an administrative measure (driving ban or warning).

So what are those traffic infractions which are considered as Art. 90 Abs. 2 SVG? In general it is up to the discretion of the prosecutor/judge never the less there is usual court practice and federal case law: Illegal passing to the right on the autobahn, crossing a red light after 2 seconds. Further information can be found in the cantons penalty recommendation used by the prosecutors.
As examples the one from Aargau: https://www.ag.ch/de/dvi/strafverfol...htlinien_7.jsp
If there is just a number it means a fine in CHF and an infraction of Art. 90 Abs. 1 SVG. If it says XY TS, than it is a monetary penalty and accordingly considered an infraction of Art. 90 Abs. 2 SVG. (Note: the list also contains infraction of other than the traffic law. )
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Last edited by aSwissInTheUS; 20.10.2020 at 10:23. Reason: Added 2 seconds to the red light. Less than 2 seconds and you get a fine according the price list
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Old 20.10.2020, 09:04
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

In other words, it would be prudent to by a public transport pass for the next two years :-)
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Old 20.10.2020, 16:16
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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In other words, it would be prudent to by a public transport pass for the next two years :-)
Depends. Ordinary fines ("Ordnungsbussen") for less than 260 CHF have no effect as they're considered anonymous.
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