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Old 04.08.2020, 16:04
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Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

One of my tenants, an Hungarian student, was caught doing +-100 on a road with a 60 limit. It looks like highway, which is what it leads to after a km or so. From the de la Paix to the Highway for those who know Lugano. It's not really clear what the limit is till you see the sign. He thought it was an 80 limit, which is what it used to be until they lowered it.

Anyway, no excuses and he know's he'll be punished, and he's just received a summons to be "interviewed" (ie. interrogated" by 3 people. 1 a sergeant and two others. The summons says for a "grave speeding offence" but does not say what speed he was doing or anything else.

Has anyone else experienced this?
Does anyone know if they have to give you this information in advance?
he's worried if he was more than 40kph above the limit which entails a possible prison sentence
Is this hearing to determine if he pleads guilty and if so do they deal with it or
Will it then be passed to a judge to decide?

Grateful for any insights. Thanks.
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Old 04.08.2020, 16:15
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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One of my tenants, an Hungarian student, was caught doing +-100 on a road with a 60 limit. It looks like highway, which is what it leads to after a km or so. From the de la Paix to the Highway for those who know Lugano. It's not really clear what the limit is till you see the sign. He thought it was an 80 limit, which is what it used to be until they lowered it.

Anyway, no excuses and he know's he'll be punished, and he's just received a summons to be "interviewed" (ie. interrogated" by 3 people. 1 a sergeant and two others. The summons says for a "grave speeding offence" but does not say what speed he was doing or anything else.

Has anyone else experienced this?
Does anyone know if they have to give you this information in advance?
he's worried if he was more than 40kph above the limit which entails a possible prison sentence
Is this hearing to determine if he pleads guilty and if so do they deal with it or
Will it then be passed to a judge to decide?

Grateful for any insights. Thanks.
Until he has seen the photo that clearly shows he is the driver he should say nothing, it's up to the police to prove the case. The interview is to gather evidence to HELP THE POLICE do their job, a confession helps them .
If the photo is not clear & he says nothing they have a problem with their case!

I do know somebody in Zurich where this happened, the Police immediately said it's not you in the picture (it was the person) he nominated his brother who lived abroad & ended up with a tiny fine as the brothers earnings were a fraction of his.
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Old 04.08.2020, 16:23
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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Until he has seen the photo that clearly shows he is the driver he should say nothing, it's up to the police to prove the case. The interview is to gather evidence to HELP THE POLICE do their job, a confession helps them .
If the photo is not clear & he says nothing they have a problem with their case!

I do know somebody in Zurich where this happened, the Police immediately said it's not you in the picture (it was the person) he nominated his brother who lived abroad & ended up with a tiny fine as the brothers earnings were a fraction of his.
If the photo is not clear then the owner of the vehicle is summoned, you can´t win this one.
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Old 04.08.2020, 16:25
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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Until he has seen the photo that clearly shows he is the driver he should say nothing, it's up to the police to prove the case. The interview is to gather evidence to HELP THE POLICE do their job, a confession helps them .
If the photo is not clear & he says nothing they have a problem with their case!

I do know somebody in Zurich where this happened, the Police immediately said it's not you in the picture (it was the person) he nominated his brother who lived abroad & ended up with a tiny fine as the brothers earnings were a fraction of his.
I hope that's a joke answer??

iirc yes he's facing time inside, get proper legal advise ASAP
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Old 04.08.2020, 16:31
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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I hope that's a joke answer??

iirc yes he's facing time inside, get proper legal advise ASAP
You are making a huge assumption that the no plate is clear, they may be guessing a digit or 2, they need a confession which is the reason for the summons.
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Old 04.08.2020, 16:32
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

as always see this thread

https://www.englishforum.ch/transpor...law-fines.html
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Old 04.08.2020, 16:43
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

That procedure sounds normal. I suggest your tenant gets a lawyer on board beforehand.

He won't get gaol time (if this is his first serious offence). In a 60 zone, gaol kicks in from 110 km/h and up. The case will be dealt with by a judge, in court, and your tenant will be expected to attend. Under Via Sicura, it's all a bit rigid; there won't be much room for negotiation. But it would be good if your tenant could retain a lawyer, as there is a minimum penalty which could escalate if the judge sees fit.

Expect a fine of 120 "daily earning units" (based loosely on earnings) and a licence ban of at least three months. This is assuming your tenant was indeed clocked at 105 km/h, after the safety margin deduction. If his net speed was over 109 km/h, you can add in a suspended gaol sentence of one year and a longer licence ban, but perversely, a smaller fine.

Of course, there will be court costs and fees for warning letters, licence withdrawal, licence restoration, etc. And if he's on a B permit or something even less permanent, the immigration folks will have a little word as well.

Either way (gaol or just a fine), your tenant will acquire a criminal record which will remain for some years.

Last edited by Guest; 04.08.2020 at 16:59.
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Old 04.08.2020, 16:47
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

Why exactly did he think it was appropriate to drive "+-100" in what he thought was an 80 zone? Even that could have landed him with at least a warning or even a one month ban depending on how + we are talking about... Had he stuck to what he believed the speed limit to be, it would have been a CHF 400 fine and a slap on the wrist.

The determining factor for the financial aspect will be whether that particular area is classed as inside a built up area or outside it. Either way, his license is gone for at least 3 months and he gets an entry on his criminal record as being this much over the speed limit is considered a serious offence.

If it is considered inside a built up area, and he was doing just under 100, it'll be a fine equivalent to 70 days' pay as determined appropriate by the judge; if he was doing just over 100, that goes up to 120 days.

If it is considered outside a built up area, doing just under 100 will cost him 30 days' pay (again, what that is equivalent to is determined by the judge), being just over 100 is 60 days' pay.

Mitigating circumstances such as bad visibility could be factored in, however, I would check whether being fully focused while driving means you actually spot the sign before using that argument. Otherwise you may get into more trouble for not having paid attention to the road!
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Old 04.08.2020, 17:45
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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One of my tenants, an Hungarian student, was caught doing +-100 on a road with a 60 limit. It looks like highway, which is what it leads to after a km or so. From the de la Paix to the Highway for those who know Lugano. It's not really clear what the limit is till you see the sign. He thought it was an 80 limit, which is what it used to be until they lowered it.
It's always been 60 there as I recall, and I've lived here 30 years.

And yes, it does look like a highway, but it is not.

Tom
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Old 04.08.2020, 17:50
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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It's always been 60 there as I recall, and I've lived here 30 years.

And yes, it does look like a highway, but it is not.

Tom
As a ex GM of the hotel De La Paix I can confirm speed limit of 60 forever.
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Old 04.08.2020, 19:04
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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As a ex GM of the hotel De La Paix I can confirm speed limit of 60 forever.
As a former customer of the Hotel de la Paix I seem to remember there was a speed limit on the road to the hotel

https://goo.gl/maps/XEuMZcaSnQ7hCdb66

https://goo.gl/maps/gWSwK8gPzJuyceoY9

He was lucky not to have been closer to town...

https://goo.gl/maps/pzhVWGavzSD3qnEz5
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Old 04.08.2020, 19:09
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

Driving the correct speed can be extremely challenging in Switzerland as speed limits can change rapidly. I know dozens of people (all Swiss) who have lost their license for 1-3 months due to speeding.
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Old 04.08.2020, 19:24
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Driving the correct speed can be extremely challenging in Switzerland as speed limits can change rapidly. I know dozens of people (all Swiss) who have lost their license for 1-3 months due to speeding.
I agree to a certain extent, but I also have to agree with this comment:

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Why exactly did he think it was appropriate to drive "+-100" in what he thought was an 80 zone? Even that could have landed him with at least a warning or even a one month ban depending on how + we are talking about... Had he stuck to what he believed the speed limit to be, it would have been a CHF 400 fine and a slap on the wrist...
It's one thing to get caught out because the speed limit changed when you didn't expect it.

It's another to deliberately go at least 20 over what you think the limit is. Everyone knows there's a small allowance for error, but no educated driver could reasonably think the allowance is 20 kph.

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...If it is considered inside a built up area, and he was doing just under 100, it'll be a fine equivalent to 70 days' pay as determined appropriate by the judge; if he was doing just over 100, that goes up to 120 days...
Assuming this worst-case scenario of 120 days, those are eye-watering numbers.

Rough math, not precise but in the ballpark:
EF minimum salary of 100,000 CHF divided by 260 working days = 384 CHF/day
x 120 days = 46,080 CHF

Last edited by 3Wishes; 04.08.2020 at 19:31. Reason: mergey merge
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Old 04.08.2020, 19:36
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

The guy was blind, it is clearly marked 60 at the start of the road:

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.9917...7i13312!8i6656

Prior to that sign, it is 50.

Tom
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Old 04.08.2020, 19:57
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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Driving the correct speed can be extremely challenging in Switzerland as speed limits can change rapidly.
Not in this case.

It is exiting downtown Lugano, where the limit is 50, and heading to Grancia and the autostrada, where the limit changes to 60, well signed, after the intersection with TL.

Tom
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Old 04.08.2020, 21:48
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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If the photo is not clear then the owner of the vehicle is summoned, you can´t win this one.
Not at all!

It's only for predefined fines below 260 CHF (known as "Ordnungsbusse") that the vehicle holder will be held responsible by default. For anything not listed in that so-called catalogue ordinary requirements of proof apply, including clearly identifying the driver. This case is clearly the latter.

I was reported for ovetaking on the right some three years ago based on a smartphone video that showed a car that looked similar to mine. Summoned to the police station I was shown, on a mobile phone, a short clip (probably filmed by the passenger) of a car overtaking on the right on the Autobahn at what looked like a slow-ish pace. As it turned out later on the number plate wasn't decipherable in the video, that may well have been the reason the police showed me the clip on a mobile phone, I had no way to determine that. Thus there was no proof. The two persons who reported it failed to show up to provide their testimony (not sure if that would have helped given the indecipherable number plate).

The case had to be dropped due to lack of evidence. Had I admitted to having driven that car the prosecution probably would have had a case.

Btw I found it extremely hard to say literally nothing and stay mum, "I säg nüüt" did the trick for me.

Given the potential costs hiring a lawyer seems money well invested, at the very least to advise in general.
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Old 04.08.2020, 21:48
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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I agree to a certain extent, but I also have to agree with this comment:



It's one thing to get caught out because the speed limit changed when you didn't expect it.

It's another to deliberately go at least 20 over what you think the limit is. Everyone knows there's a small allowance for error, but no educated driver could reasonably think the allowance is 20 kph.



Assuming this worst-case scenario of 120 days, those are eye-watering numbers.

Rough math, not precise but in the ballpark:
EF minimum salary of 100,000 CHF divided by 260 working days = 384 CHF/day
x 120 days = 46,080 CHF
I believe there is a deduction for essential living expenses, or there was for a potential manslaughter charge where the prosecution asked for 2000 CHF based on 90 days after a skiing accident. Anyway the verdict was not guilty.
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Old 04.08.2020, 22:18
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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Assuming this worst-case scenario of 120 days, those are eye-watering numbers.

Rough math, not precise but in the ballpark:
EF minimum salary of 100,000 CHF divided by 260 working days = 384 CHF/day
x 120 days = 46,080 CHF
The driver, in this case, is a student, so the actual number of Francs will be much lower, but probably, yes, eye-watering to him. That's actually the point of calculating the fines that way.
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Old 04.08.2020, 22:23
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

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I do know somebody in Zurich where this happened, the Police immediately said it's not you in the picture (it was the person) he nominated his brother who lived abroad & ended up with a tiny fine as the brothers earnings were a fraction of his.
Very good if it's true. If it isn't - don't do it. Perverting the course of justice is a very very serious offence - worse than speeding.

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Driving the correct speed can be extremely challenging in Switzerland as speed limits can change rapidly.
Only if you don't pay attention. In 20 years, I've been caught once by not noticing a speed limit change. (The other two times have been sheer carelessness on my part).
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Old 05.08.2020, 00:01
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Re: Speeding 105 in a 60 zone

I got caught once and it was where I was focusing on the fact that it was a straight road outside of town and assumed it was 80, so did not properly register the 60 sign. Other than that, no fines in Switzerland in eight years. Drove about 4000 kilometres in ten days recently, the 80% of which on Swiss territory, still managed not to get flashed once.

As for what constitutes the day rate, the judge factors in the financial situation of the boy racer. The "rate per day" system is based on the notion that the fine has to hurt but not permanently so, i.e. it should not saddle you with a debt you can only pay off over several years or by doing a lengthy stint in jail.
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