Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Transportation/driving  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 26.08.2020, 10:19
Tom1234's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 15,786
Groaned at 523 Times in 415 Posts
Thanked 23,287 Times in 9,411 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bike with fat wheels

Quote:
View Post
I think you might be confused here. We aren't talking about wheel diameter but a cross section of tire itself, the width.
He thought this post was in Pet Corner where indeed the wheels are 28mm diameter....

Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Tom1234 for this useful post:
  #22  
Old 26.08.2020, 10:48
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 31,607
Groaned at 2,354 Times in 1,712 Posts
Thanked 38,414 Times in 18,127 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bike with fat wheels

Quote:
View Post
Sorry to get nerdy, but I feel that it is my duty to debunk the wider tyre equals more rolling resistance myth. Wider tyres actually offer LOWER rolling resistance. It's a bit complicated to explain, but basically a wider tyre will have a shorter contact patch than a narrower tyre inflated to the same pressure, and hence less tyre deflection.
NOT the case with motorcycles!

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 26.08.2020, 12:15
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Risch
Posts: 744
Groaned at 37 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 810 Times in 417 Posts
KiwiSteve has a reputation beyond reputeKiwiSteve has a reputation beyond reputeKiwiSteve has a reputation beyond reputeKiwiSteve has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bike with fat wheels

From Wikipedia:
Several factors affect the magnitude of rolling resistance a tire generates:

As mentioned in the introduction: wheel radius, forward speed, surface adhesion, and relative micro-sliding.
Material - different fillers and polymers in tire composition can improve traction while reducing hysteresis. The replacement of some carbon black with higher-priced silica–silane is one common way of reducing rolling resistance.[5] The use of exotic materials including nano-clay has been shown to reduce rolling resistance in high performance rubber tires.[48] Solvents may also be used to swell solid tires, decreasing the rolling resistance.[49]
Dimensions - rolling resistance in tires is related to the flex of sidewalls and the contact area of the tire[50] For example, at the same pressure, wider bicycle tires flex less in the sidewalls as they roll and thus have lower rolling resistance (although higher air resistance).[50]
Extent of inflation - Lower pressure in tires results in more flexing of the sidewalls and higher rolling resistance.[50] This energy conversion in the sidewalls increases resistance and can also lead to overheating and may have played a part in the infamous Ford Explorer rollover accidents.
Over inflating tires (such a bicycle tires) may not lower the overall rolling resistance as the tire may skip and hop over the road surface. Traction is sacrificed, and overall rolling friction may not be reduced as the wheel rotational speed changes and slippage increases.[citation needed]
Sidewall deflection is not a direct measurement of rolling friction. A high quality tire with a high quality (and supple) casing will allow for more flex per energy loss than a cheap tire with a stiff sidewall.[citation needed] Again, on a bicycle, a quality tire with a supple casing will still roll easier than a cheap tire with a stiff casing. Similarly, as noted by Goodyear truck tires, a tire with a "fuel saving" casing will benefit the fuel economy through many tread lives (i.e. retreading), while a tire with a "fuel saving" tread design will only benefit until the tread wears down.
In tires, tread thickness and shape has much to do with rolling resistance. The thicker and more contoured the tread, the higher the rolling resistance[50] Thus, the "fastest" bicycle tires have very little tread and heavy duty trucks get the best fuel economy as the tire tread wears out.
Diameter effects seem to be negligible, provided the pavement is hard and the range of diameters is limited. See dependence on diameter.
Virtually all world speed records have been set on relatively narrow wheels,[citation needed] probably because of their aerodynamic advantage at high speed, which is much less important at normal speeds.
Temperature: with both solid and pneumatic tires, rolling resistance has been found to decrease as temperature increases (within a range of temperatures: i.e. there is an upper limit to this effect)[51][52] For a rise in temperature from 30 °C to 70 °C the rolling resistance decreased by 20-25%.[53] It is claimed that racers heat their tire before racing.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank KiwiSteve for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 26.08.2020, 14:23
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Zug
Posts: 75
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts
coolbeanz has earned some respectcoolbeanz has earned some respect
Re: Bike with fat wheels

Hehe, a lot of non-believers out there - this article explains the concept of wider tyres having lower rolling resistance quite nicely:

https://cyclingmagazine.ca/sections/...ng-resistance/

Of course, as said previously, rolling resistance isn't everything - many other factors play a role in how 'fast' a tyre setup is in the real world. There's a reason why roadies don't race on fat bikes.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 26.08.2020, 14:48
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,296
Groaned at 294 Times in 223 Posts
Thanked 19,006 Times in 6,627 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bike with fat wheels

Quote:
View Post
Hehe, a lot of non-believers out there - this article explains the concept of wider tyres having lower rolling resistance quite nicely:

https://cyclingmagazine.ca/sections/...ng-resistance/

Of course, as said previously, rolling resistance isn't everything - many other factors play a role in how 'fast' a tyre setup is in the real world. There's a reason why roadies don't race on fat bikes.
It's not only resistance. Don't underestimate the factor of the additional rotation weight.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 26.08.2020, 14:50
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 2,930
Groaned at 37 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 3,944 Times in 1,830 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bike with fat wheels

Quote:
View Post
Hehe, a lot of non-believers out there - this article explains the concept of wider tyres having lower rolling resistance quite nicely:

https://cyclingmagazine.ca/sections/...ng-resistance/

Of course, as said previously, rolling resistance isn't everything - many other factors play a role in how 'fast' a tyre setup is in the real world. There's a reason why roadies don't race on fat bikes.
Nice piece of theory. 23 or 25 mm wide wheels are for races or highly motivated enthusiasts. I'd hate to ride in a fat 25 mm wide tire on a rainy day.

The discussion around here is between city bikes (35-40mm wide tires), MTB hardtails (50-60 mm) or fat bikes (75-100mm). Try pedaling to gain speed with 100m wide tires after every time you need to stop at a traffic light or let a pedestrian cross the street. Mind the tire width and rolling resistance, the challenge is in spinning all that rubber mass from zero. It's really hard to maintain constant speed in a urban setting, you're accelerating from zero to something most of time.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 26.08.2020, 14:57
Ato Ato is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,526
Groaned at 15 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 2,820 Times in 1,143 Posts
Ato has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bike with fat wheels

On the flip side of slow acceleration you get a flywheel effect instead. Great for cruising around on your cloud tyres.

In the end, I'd say the OP would be fine on any bike that's not running tyres under 30mm, I mean you could stick a wider tyre into a tramline but you'd want to be aiming for it.
If you're riding along tramlines just make sure to cut across them when leaving instead of drifting across them, the more perpendicular you are the better.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Ato for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 26.08.2020, 14:59
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Zug
Posts: 75
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts
coolbeanz has earned some respectcoolbeanz has earned some respect
Re: Bike with fat wheels

You're absolutely right - at a point, the higher rotational mass of a wider tyre will offset the benefit of its lower rolling resistance. Its larger surface area will also create more drag, which would become perceivable at higher speeds (which most wouldn't reach in day-to-day city riding scenario).
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 26.08.2020, 15:07
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Zug
Posts: 75
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts
coolbeanz has earned some respectcoolbeanz has earned some respect
Re: Bike with fat wheels

Anyhow, if I could pick any bike to ride in the city today, I'd probably go with something like this:



https://hotpoint.ch/work/koga-f3-4-0s/

The belt drive and internal-hub gears should ensure a long and very low-maintenance lifespan.

Of course, at CHF 1,899 it's not cheap (that's e-bike territory), but you get what you pay for.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank coolbeanz for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 26.08.2020, 15:48
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Basel
Posts: 20
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Chin has no particular reputation at present
Re: Bike with fat wheels

Thanks all for your detailed replies so far. I just want a cheap bike so I can ride around on the weekend when it's quieter. I will go for a cheap mountain bike which has a little 'fatter' wheels on average.

Could I ask another question as I am such a rookie with bikes. I'm 5"11 (180cm) with an inside leg length of 34 inches. Swiss bikes seems to judge size of bikes by frames. What size frame should I be looking for? Is 29 inches (48.2cm) too small for my size?
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 26.08.2020, 16:00
Ato Ato is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,526
Groaned at 15 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 2,820 Times in 1,143 Posts
Ato has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bike with fat wheels

Quote:
View Post
Thanks all for your detailed replies so far. I just want a cheap bike so I can ride around on the weekend when it's quieter. I will go for a cheap mountain bike which has a little 'fatter' wheels on average.

Could I ask another question as I am such a rookie with bikes. I'm 5"11 (180cm) with an inside leg length of 34 inches. Swiss bikes seems to judge size of bikes by frames. What size frame should I be looking for? Is 29 inches (48.2cm) too small for my size?
Mountainbike frames normally come with a S,M,L,XL sizing.
29" is also a Mountainbike wheel size.
With bike brands being different with no standard scale, normally I'd look up the brand site.

A 29" frame would be for a giant. You should be somewhere around a Large/20"/54

EDIT - 48.2cm must be the size you're looking at, could be a touch small. (29" is 73.7cm)
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Ato for this useful post:
  #32  
Old 26.08.2020, 16:04
Bossa Nova's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Vaud
Posts: 188
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 450 Times in 125 Posts
Bossa Nova has a reputation beyond reputeBossa Nova has a reputation beyond reputeBossa Nova has a reputation beyond reputeBossa Nova has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bike with fat wheels

Quote:
View Post
Thanks all for your detailed replies so far. I just want a cheap bike so I can ride around on the weekend when it's quieter. I will go for a cheap mountain bike which has a little 'fatter' wheels on average.

Could I ask another question as I am such a rookie with bikes. I'm 5"11 (180cm) with an inside leg length of 34 inches. Swiss bikes seems to judge size of bikes by frames. What size frame should I be looking for? Is 29 inches (48.2cm) too small for my size?

If you're looking for a cheap bike you might as well head to Decathlon or Ochsner sport to have a salesperson help you find the right size. Also, there has been a lot of discussion about tire width and rolling resistance, I made the point that having knobby tires (vs. smooth) is what can really affect your rolling resistance. It should be perfectly possible to find a bike with wider, more comfortable tires that are still a bit "slick" so they roll easily.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Bossa Nova for this useful post:
  #33  
Old 26.08.2020, 16:21
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Zug
Posts: 75
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts
coolbeanz has earned some respectcoolbeanz has earned some respect
Re: Bike with fat wheels

If you're after a mountain bike, they mainly use the XS, S, M, L, XL etc. sizing system.

I'm the same height as you, and size L mountain bikes fit me best 90% of the time, although I know a few people my height who feel more comfortable on an M. Bottom line is that it's best to try before you buy. Note also that you can make a few cheap/free tweaks, like switching to a different length stem, or changing the distribution of steerer tube spacers, to adapt the bike to your liking.

One word of warning: buying cheap mountain bikes can be a bit of a gamble. Buy cheap and new and you will likely end up with a poor quality frame with sub-par components. Buy cheap and used and you may end up with a bike that has had a hard life (mountain biking can be very harsh on equipment).

Anyhow, I have no idea what you mean by 'cheap' (people in Switzerland seem to have a bit of a warped concept of the word :P), but if you're really looking to save your pennies, I'd perhaps look for an old fully rigid mountain bike - less to go wrong without a suspension fork. Then just swap out the tyres for slicks.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank coolbeanz for this useful post:
  #34  
Old 26.08.2020, 16:23
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Zug
Posts: 75
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts
coolbeanz has earned some respectcoolbeanz has earned some respect
Re: Bike with fat wheels

Quote:
View Post
Mountainbike frames normally come with a S,M,L,XL sizing.
I'm way too slow XD
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 26.08.2020, 18:54
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Basel
Posts: 20
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Chin has no particular reputation at present
Re: Bike with fat wheels

I think I'll check out decathlon as it's not terribly far from me. By cheap I mean the cost will be no more than 250chf. I hear bikes can be 500+chf here.

A large sounds about right for me. I literally just want to ride short distances when it's the weekend and roads are quiet. I won't actually be doing any mountain biking so the wear and tear of the bike will be minimal (I hope).
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 26.08.2020, 21:27
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Lenzburg
Posts: 20
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Rulercoaster has no particular reputation at present
Re: Bike with fat wheels

Quote:
View Post
I think I'll check out decathlon as it's not terribly far from me. By cheap I mean the cost will be no more than 250chf. I hear bikes can be 500+chf here.
[...]
I don't think you'll find a new bike for that price. Maybe if they have a promotion in ALDI? So I'd check the used market, e.g. tutti.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 26.08.2020, 21:34
Ato Ato is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,526
Groaned at 15 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 2,820 Times in 1,143 Posts
Ato has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Bike with fat wheels

Quote:
View Post
I think I'll check out decathlon as it's not terribly far from me. By cheap I mean the cost will be no more than 250chf. I hear bikes can be 500+chf here.

A large sounds about right for me. I literally just want to ride short distances when it's the weekend and roads are quiet. I won't actually be doing any mountain biking so the wear and tear of the bike will be minimal (I hope).
Search Ricardo for an old hardtail or suspensionless mtb. I haven't looked up bike prices recently but I hear they've gone up during virus times.

Something like this: https://www.ricardo.ch/de/a/velo-bmc...-l-1130860022/
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Set of 700C Bike Wheels (Horgen, ZH) David2 Free stuff 2 21.06.2018 13:16
ladies bike- fixed gear bike vs geared bike? [ZH] BigB.ZH Daily life 13 17.09.2014 10:10
Dog bag on wheels Guest Pet corner 28 25.08.2014 14:13
Where to buy 2nd set of car wheels.... richardm Transportation/driving 1 02.11.2010 23:39


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0