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  #41  
Old 04.09.2020, 17:07
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Re: What value vehicle for Swiss mountian roads?

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What about reliability? Don't Italian cars and specially Fiat break down a lot?
No.

One of our cars is a 2009 Fiat 500C, we have owned it for 5 years & it's only needed a water pump in that time. As the cam belt had never been changed it's something that probably should have been done as standard maintenance.

Fiat 500 / Panda share a lot of bits, the workshop manual is combined.
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  #42  
Old 04.09.2020, 17:07
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Re: What value vehicle for Swiss mountian roads?

Treverus, I am tiny so might be able to fit. Also as I age I will get tinier

I will visit a dealer with a pillow in hand to look at it in person

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  #43  
Old 04.09.2020, 17:10
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Re: What value vehicle for Swiss mountian roads?

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Expect huge repair bills.
Not at all.
Range Rover HSE 4.6 Vogue, bought new and still running now 20 years and 350,000 kms later. No longer with me but now my son has it. Only big problem was the air suspension 2 years ago, CHF9,000 to fix here, so we replaced it with spring suspension for +- CHF1,800 (in Italy) and no problem with the police control.

Disco 3 HSE Diesel, 200,000 kms, driven hard off road in Africa, runs perfectly and the only major repair (apart from bodywork) was a replacement radiator and water pump (as a precaution, though it was still working fine). Just replaced the original battery this year. This car climbed sand dunes where Land Cruisers and Patrols could not. I've videos of them.

Also had Disco 1 and 2's, all high mileage, all used off road and never a problem.

We briefly had a Land Cruiser, 2 years old, and sold it 6 months later due to many faults with the engine, gearbox etc.

So yes, for me, LR's anyday!

And the Disco being 7 seater, can lay them flat and sleep very well. Mine also has front and rear towing hooks and a winch which will pull the car up a very steep incline - youtube it!
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  #44  
Old 04.09.2020, 17:20
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Re: What value vehicle for Swiss mountian roads?

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What about reliability? Don't Italian cars and specially Fiat break down a lot?
I assume everybody knows what FIAT stands for.
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  #45  
Old 04.09.2020, 19:59
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Re: What value vehicle for Swiss mountian roads?

Perhaps this: https://www.gmc.com/electric-truck/hummer-ev
Otherwise cant go wrong with a Cadillac
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  #46  
Old 05.09.2020, 13:54
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Re: What value vehicle for Swiss mountian roads?

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SUVs are maybe better for high ground clearance and 4WD/AWD. But be aware that AWD systems in most city SUVs are not that much better than regular cars.
I am sorry I live in the mountains, without 4WD you need chains, and even then you won't do as well. We've been here 10 years, and every winter I watch cars without 4WD get stuck, they can not go up and dare not go down. They pull over and wait to be rescued.

The more expensive 4WD car you can get the better. It isn't just about driving 4 wheels, it is also about how those wheels are being driven. I have [admit not a budget] BMW X1. We're about 1200m above sea level. It snows in the winter and stays for at least 3 months, did so for almost 6 one year. Snow ploughs clear the roads as long as it isn't snowing, but they remain very slippery; and everywhere you need/want to go is either uphill or downhill.

Look at the details for the 4WD options for the different car manufacturers. Volvo, BMW and Mercedes are the gold standard; that said on a budget I see quite a few SUBARUs on the road too. The computers they use in cars are like iPhones, they double in power every year. The newer car you get, the better the 4WD handling will be.
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  #47  
Old 05.09.2020, 14:11
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Re: What value vehicle for Swiss mountian roads?

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I am sorry I live in the mountains, without 4WD you need chains, and even then you won't do as well. We've been here 10 years, and every winter I watch cars without 4WD get stuck, they can not go up and dare not go down. They pull over and wait to be rescued.

The more expensive 4WD car you can get the better. It isn't just about driving 4 wheels, it is also about how those wheels are being driven. I have [admit not a budget] BMW X1. We're about 1200m above sea level. It snows in the winter and stays for at least 3 months, did so for almost 6 one year. Snow ploughs clear the roads as long as it isn't snowing, but they remain very slippery; and everywhere you need/want to go is either uphill or downhill.

Look at the details for the 4WD options for the different car manufacturers. Volvo, BMW and Mercedes are the gold standard; that said on a budget I see quite a few SUBARUs on the road too. The computers they use in cars are like iPhones, they double in power every year. The newer car you get, the better the 4WD handling will be.
3 months with snow on the road at 1200m, I must be in the wrong ski resorts. Very little snow on the roads in Verbier at 1500m. The only times I ever put chains on if the Police insist, that was driving rear wheel drive BMW 3 series for over 10 years. I think I needed chains once ever 3 years on average driving 40-100 days a year in the mountains. I have not used chains in the last 5 seasons but staying at 1050m & usually driving to ski at 1400m. Of course 4 wheel drive gives no advantage going down, this is something owners of heavy 4x4's don't realise until they leave the road on a corner.
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  #48  
Old 05.09.2020, 14:51
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Re: What value vehicle for Swiss mountian roads?

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3 months with snow on the road at 1200m, I must be in the wrong ski resorts. Very little snow on the roads in Verbier at 1500m. The only times I ever put chains on if the Police insist, that was driving rear wheel drive BMW 3 series for over 10 years. I think I needed chains once ever 3 years on average driving 40-100 days a year in the mountains. I have not used chains in the last 5 seasons but staying at 1050m & usually driving to ski at 1400m. Of course 4 wheel drive gives no advantage going down, this is something owners of heavy 4x4's don't realise until they leave the road on a corner.
I have lived ten years in CH and went skiing a lot. I have not used chains once.
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  #49  
Old 05.09.2020, 17:43
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Re: What value vehicle for Swiss mountian roads?

I'm with Lugano pirate - Landrovers are great. I keep a 1998 TD5 up at my place at 1200m- it has done nearly 300,000 miles and performs well. I would however be happy to use a Fiat4x4 as they look great but where I am the locals are always on your side on the road when you go round a mountain bend so feel a lot safer in the Discovery.

I was interested in FMFs comments on chains - always used them but seem now to be that they are out of fashion with the new type tyres. Have memories of sliding down from Crans years ago in an old Class Mercedes..and the difficulties of trying to fit chains on in a blizzard.
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  #50  
Old 05.09.2020, 17:50
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Re: What value vehicle for Swiss mountian roads?

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I was interested in FMFs comments on chains - always used them but seem now to be that they are out of fashion with the new type tyres. Have memories of sliding down from Crans years ago in an old Class Mercedes..and the difficulties of trying to fit chains on in a blizzard.
Modern winter tyres have amazing performance as long as they are 'fresh' so less than 5 years from the date of manufacture.
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  #51  
Old 05.09.2020, 19:48
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Re: What value vehicle for Swiss mountian roads?

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I would however be happy to use a Fiat4x4 as they look great but where I am the locals are always on your side on the road when you go round a mountain bend so feel a lot safer in the Discovery.

Ouuch!!!


https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/f...ck/reliability

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/vid...-star-ncap-car

Last edited by Talk to you later; 05.09.2020 at 20:18.
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  #52  
Old 05.09.2020, 20:09
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Re: What value vehicle for Swiss mountian roads?

Ok, so th EF experts concluded that the best value vehicle for Swiss mountains are Land Rover and Fiats. And if the landie miraculously fails just smuggle some parts in your suitcase...
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  #53  
Old 06.09.2020, 11:34
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Re: What value vehicle for Swiss mountian roads?

My view in a Swiss joke "What is left over after you cremate a Swiss mountain farmer? Dust and his SUBARU keys."
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  #54  
Old 07.09.2020, 11:41
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Re: What value vehicle for Swiss mountian roads?

Don't forget Jeep Grand Cherokees (2008 - 2010) 3.0L Mercedes V6 Diesels. Great engine and QDII AWD system is one of the best (or THE best) I have driven in snow. Performs really well in snow, excellent for long drives and lots of space to sleep in.

Prices are reasonable for what you get.

Similar to one below:

https://www.autoscout24.ch/de/d/jeep..._asc&vehtyp=10
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Old 07.09.2020, 13:08
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Re: What value vehicle for Swiss mountian roads?

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I assume everybody knows what FIAT stands for.
Fehler In Allen Teilen?
Für Italiener Ausreichender Technik?
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  #56  
Old 07.09.2020, 13:12
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Re: What value vehicle for Swiss mountian roads?

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Fehler In Allen Teilen?
Für Italiener Ausreichender Technik?
Fix It Again Tomorrow?
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  #57  
Old 07.09.2020, 15:17
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Re: What value vehicle for Swiss mountian roads?

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Or a Subaru
Forester I would even say...
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  #58  
Old 07.09.2020, 15:24
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Re: What value vehicle for Swiss mountian roads?

I managed to get 8 pairs of skies in the boot of my wife's Peugeot RCZ, I think 10 pairs would fit.
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Old 07.09.2020, 15:29
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Re: What value vehicle for Swiss mountian roads?

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Fix It Again Tomorrow?
Fix it again Tony with a Jersey Italian accent.
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Old 07.09.2020, 17:08
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Re: What value vehicle for Swiss mountian roads?

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Fix it again Tony with a Jersey Joisy Italian accent.
FTFY!

Tom
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