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  #41  
Old 15.09.2020, 20:14
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Re: advise - infos please on car accident

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Does the official Federal rule use the word 'idiot' or does it actually state the speed difference required that warrants the high-beam flash?
If someone drives on the passing lane on an otherwise empty autobahn they are either simply an idiot (best case) or should not be using a car at all (worst case). My personal opinion.

The law stats: "Dem sich ankündigenden, schneller fahrenden Fahrzeug ist die Strasse zum Überholen freizugeben." (The road must be given free to the announcing, faster moving vehicle to allow overtaking) Art. 35 Abs, 7 SVG
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  #42  
Old 15.09.2020, 20:26
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Re: advise - infos please on car accident

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why on earth would I need to change the lane (from left to right) just to get behind an idiot who is driving slow in the fast lane?

Well.....turning the steering wheel is part of the fun of driving. Sharp movements produce exciting lateral acceleration. Some people only get pleasure from steeping on the gas pedal and that's sad
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Old 15.09.2020, 21:44
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Re: advise - infos please on car accident

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If it is a single idiot on the left lane you are allowed to to the following:
With appropriate distance you can flash him once, max twice with the high beam. Keep distance and wait till the other driver moves over. Do not tail gate or repeatedly flash the head lights.

Rule for appropriate distance is at least 2 seconds or half in meters what your speedometer shows in km/h. For example if you go 100 km/h you should have 50 meter distance. The second definition gives a slightly shorter distance, as the first results in 55.55 meters.

50 meters is exactly as far as the guide posts/reflectors on the right side are apart. 55 meters can be estimated using the road markings, it is roughly 3 white dashes and spaces. Or use a reference point (look at shadow) and count 1-dumb-ass-driver, 2-dumb-as-driver. If your sooner at the reference point increase your distance.

If your distance is less than 0.6 seconds or less than 1/6 of your speedo meter it is considered a serious traffic infraction (monetary penalty plus at least 3 month ban). At 100 km/h this is 16.666 meters. Or using the road markings on the autobahn one dash and one space.
https://www.lw-p.ch/de/rechtsthemen/...rassenverkehr/





Generally yes it is overtaking. Or to use the words of the federal court: "Overtaking is when a faster vehicle catches up with a slower vehicle ahead in the same direction, passes it and continues its journey in front of it, whereby neither swinging out nor turning back is a necessary condition for overtaking" (BGE 6B_216/2018 and also in BGE 142 IV 93, 133 II 58, and 126 IV 192)


Here the cases where it is permitted on the autobahn:
- On the acceleration strip as long as there are not only dashes (very important on the now more and more common extra long acceleration strips). Art. 36 Abs. 5 lit. c VRV
- On the deceleration strip/exit ramp. Art. 36 Abs. 5 lit. d VRV
- On lanes with different destination the the one to your left. But only when they are distinctly different. Not from the pre-signal (splitting arrow). Art. 36. Abs. 5 lit. b VRV and federal court rulings. Examples: Not yet o.k: https://goo.gl/maps/KWqhRwbNA1tAyby46 o.k.: https://goo.gl/maps/hXJaiz6LwiudMCDm9
- And finally when there is dense traffic (Kollonenverkehr). Art. 36 Abs. 5 lit. a VRV and federal court rulings. My own definition of dense traffic is if I cannot change the lane w/o doing a serious traffic infractions. Or in other words if the distance between the cars on the other lane is less than 1.2 seconds, because if I would merge I will have less than 0.6 seconds to the car in the front of me and/or to the car behind me. If I get a citation that would be my excuse and defense strategy all the way to the federal court. In the best case I never get a citation as the police shares my view, in next best case I get acquitted, and in the worst case we all get a federal court ruling were we know what dense traffic (Kollonenverkehr) actually should objectively mean.

See also: https://www.tcs.ch/de/testberichte-r...holvorgang.php



I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the way that aSwissInTheUS can always be relied on to:


a) look up the relevant Swiss laws;

b) translate them into english for us language thickos; and

c) continue to explain it for people who still didn't understand.


You, Sir/Madam, are a true forum legend. Thank you.


Regards




Ian
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  #44  
Old 15.09.2020, 22:46
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Re: advise - infos please on car accident

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Guys I am overwhelmed with the amount of input I found now on here !I very much thank you all for doing this !!!
Most of you got the facts right , now I will try to make it a little more clear .
1. im driving on the slow lane on a motorway , im in the tunnel , limit its 100 , I followed that tunnel
2. here in the tunnel or right after I over took her but without any purpose of doing that I did not increase my speed or anything , I kept my speed when / if she slowed down without any signals of willing to change lanes , so I left her some place behind me . to be honest I did not pay attention to this R side overtake as it was the first time I hear its not legal the way I did it
3. I was out of the tunnel more then 500 m when I checked L Mirror and noticed she was kind of sliding towards me , then looked at her and noticed she was not looking at traffic ahead , I panicked L-R manoeuvre , we hit .....
4. police said we would have hit anyway ,apparently its clear on the video that she was coming towards me
so for me the accident was here , maybe 1 minute after I overtook her , they looked back to the videos , maybe I overtook her before the tunnel then 1 km in the tunnel all good and then accident - bang my fault !!! its like ok , you are guilty for leaving with your car away this morning if you understand my meaning .
please recommend me one lawyer for auto accidents and also a company that have a good insurance for this matters to make this for the future !
thank you once again to you all !!!

If you've properly overtaken her so there's significant distance between you and her and then she catches you up and drifts into your lane causing a collision then I'd say it was her fault and your undertake was irrelevant. A lawyer might be able to argue this if you get prosecuted for the accident or the insurance refuses to pay but it could cost you a lot of money. If you had sped up, would you not have avoided the accident?

If however you've gone alongside her maybe a bit in front, maybe a bit behind and she simply doesn't expect you to be there then I'd say she should have looked but it's good driving practice to not leave yourself in such a precarious position. You should have either hung back or properly overtaken.


I'm not sure such a super-lawyer exists to get people off charges like this or for ignorance of the rules of the road. You say "for the future" i.e. next time something like this happens. Learn to drive defensively - imagine there would be no lawyer or insurance or police to help you should something happen.


I have no idea what will happen to you - you'll have to wait and see.
It could be you're prosecuted for the undertake and perhaps for not being able to control your car and she would be prosecuted for the collision. Insurance wise you both have to argue your case and if she had simply collided with you that might be clear. The fact you swerved and then there was an accident complicates things.


I'm sure we'd all love to see the cctv footage. Maybe you could consider fitting a dashcam, maybe front and rear for added assurance.
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  #45  
Old 16.09.2020, 13:47
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Re: advise - infos please on car accident

@Ruler - stop calling it the slow lane. It is the correct lane to use due to the "rule of keeping to the right lane". Of course, several common sense exemptions to always staying right apply but you hopefully get the idea by now. If you call it the slow lane in your interview with the authorities, they may get the idea that you don't understand how our road system works. This may be correct but if you want to prevent things getting worse, there is no need to draw their attention to it further.


As for "left lane hoggers" - annoying, but you can't really do anything about it and flashing your lights can land you in trouble. A friend of mine habitually flashed her lights because her Swiss husband told her that this is what you do, unfortunately, there was that one time where an unmarked police car right was travelling next to her and saw her do it. She lost her license for three months (I reckon she was also a tad close to the other car, I've sat in the car with her before, she drives as bit aggressively).

As for slowing down if someone is slower on the left - if I have not changed lane recently and am simply travelling where I am going at the proper speed, I am sure as heck not going to add to the congestion by slowing down. However, a friend of mine tells me that he has discovered something interesting: if you exactly match the speed of the car and stick next to them, it freaks some people out and they either speed up or end up changing lanes.
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  #46  
Old 16.09.2020, 14:52
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Re: advise - infos please on car accident

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if you exactly match the speed of the car and stick next to them, it freaks some people out and they either speed up or end up changing lanes.

Changing lanes and colliding with you?


The road isn't for playing games.
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  #47  
Old 16.09.2020, 15:00
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Re: advise - infos please on car accident

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I doubt many people would remember the colour of the cars that have passed them on a motorway unless it would be a Lamborghini!
And even then, only if it was this model:



Tom
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  #48  
Old 16.09.2020, 15:02
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Re: advise - infos please on car accident

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Changing lanes and colliding with you?


The road isn't for playing games.
Obviously not what I meant. Ok, let me be ultra precise in my wording so nobody ends up going full Karen.

"The person on the left lane will speed up to a more acceptable speed and keep going at that speed or they will briefly speed up and then change lanes ahead of you."

My mate's car has cruise control, so all he is doing is following the rule suggested by someone else, which is not to exceed the speed of the car on the left. No games, just following the supposed rules, officer.
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