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-   -   Car tyre load index? (https://www.englishforum.ch/transportation-driving/300888-car-tyre-load-index.html)

Mr.Maquiavelo 26.10.2020 17:56

Car tyre load index?
 
Hi gurus :) I got a really nice Special for winter tires for my car but after I bought them I realized that the load index was a bit lower than what I used to have before ... can I not carry my girlfriend anymore??? :/

The gross weight or Gesamtgewicht of my car is 2385kg as written in my car papers. The tires I got have load index:
- front 94V (max 670kg per tyre)
- back 96V (max 710kg per tyre)

Doing the math these tyres support up to 2760kg, and almost 400kg more than the gross car weight; which should be enough to accommodate for 4 passengers and luggage.

I called a garage and they said it wasn’t right, that I needed 98V front and 100V back. Then I called the technical branch of the strassenverkersamt and they confirmed it was OK. However, I was left wondering whether my reasoning for calculating whether it works or not was flawed e.g. if I get one flat tyre do the others have to be able to support the whole car?

Any hints appreciated.

newtoswitz 26.10.2020 18:04

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
You don't normally need to do this calculation, it should be on the tyre information label on the car (often on the driver side pillar when you open the door). Or maybe in the car manual.

I'm not sure but it probably isn't even relevant to do the calculation - the insurance will say you must follow what the manufacturer says.

Tom1234 26.10.2020 18:13

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Maquiavelo (Post 3231587)
Hi gurus :) I got a really nice Special for winter tires for my car but after I bought them I realized that the load index was a bit lower than what I used to have before ... can I not carry my girlfriend anymore???



Any hints appreciated.

Get a new, 'lighter', girlfriend?

fatmanfilms 26.10.2020 18:39

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Maquiavelo (Post 3231587)
Hi gurus :) I got a really nice Special for winter tires for my car but after I bought them I realized that the load index was a bit lower than what I used to have before ... can I not carry my girlfriend anymore??? :/

The gross weight or Gesamtgewicht of my car is 2385kg as written in my car papers. The tires I got have load index:
- front 94V (max 670kg per tyre)
- back 96V (max 710kg per tyre)

Doing the math these tyres support up to 2760kg, and almost 400kg more than the gross car weight; which should be enough to accommodate for 4 passengers and luggage.

I called a garage and they said it wasn’t right, that I needed 98V front and 100V back. Then I called the technical branch of the strassenverkersamt and they confirmed it was OK. However, I was left wondering whether my reasoning for calculating whether it works or not was flawed e.g. if I get one flat tyre do the others have to be able to support the whole car?

Any hints appreciated.

You will never drive on 3 so it's irrelevant, even with a burst tire the weight will go via the rims to the road.
I assume thats the max weight including passengers & luggage, you claim car not tank.

newtoswitz 26.10.2020 18:58

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 3231606)
You will never drive on 3 so it's irrelevant, even with a burst tire the weight will go via the rims to the road.
I assume thats the max weight including passengers & luggage, you claim car not tank.

Not necessarily.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/Altruistic...Flyingfox.webp

robBob 26.10.2020 19:17

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Don't fill the gas tank. ;)
Can also remove the rear seats to compensate for you GF.

aSwissInTheUS 26.10.2020 19:18

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Maquiavelo (Post 3231587)
The gross weight or Gesamtgewicht of my car is 2385kg as written in my car papers. The tires I got have load index:
- front 94V (max 670kg per tyre)
- back 96V (max 710kg per tyre)

Doing the math these tyres support up to 2760kg, and almost 400kg more than the gross car weight; which should be enough to accommodate for 4 passengers and luggage.

I called a garage and they said it wasn’t right, that I needed 98V front and 100V back. Then I called the technical branch of the strassenverkersamt and they confirmed it was OK.

As you checked with the StVA/SAN, and I assumed you stated No. 18 Stammnummer or No. 24 TG-Number, it is what is stated in the cars CoC and is what the manufacturer has considered as good enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtoswitz (Post 3231591)
You don't normally need to do this calculation, it should be on the tyre information label on the car (often on the driver side pillar when you open the door). Or maybe in the car manual.

Here a little exercise for you: Try to find this information for your car. Have fun if it is not US import.

The information is normally only found on the cars CoC. In EU countries it is often also mentioned on the cars registration paper. In Switzerland unfortunatly not. If you do not find you can get an extract from the Swiss type apporval database TRAGA which is available from your local garage, tire dealer or StVA/SAN. See example here: https://www.targatyre.ch/

newtoswitz 26.10.2020 19:37

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 3231624)
Here a little exercise for you: Try to find this information for your car. Have fun if it is not US import.

The information is normally only found on the cars CoC. In EU countries it is often also mentioned on the cars registration paper. In Switzerland unfortunatly not. If you do not find you can get an extract from the Swiss type apporval database TRAGA which is available from your local garage, tire dealer or StVA/SAN. See example here: https://www.targatyre.ch/

It's possible my Swiss registered Ford is an outlier, but it definitely shows the full tyre specification on the driver information label for a range of options - wheel size, width, profile, maximum weight and speed rating.

k_and_e 26.10.2020 20:15

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 3231624)
As you checked with the StVA/SAN, and I assumed you stated No. 18 Stammnummer or No. 24 TG-Number, it is what is stated in the cars CoC and is what the manufacturer has considered as good enough.


Here a little exercise for you: Try to find this information for your car. Have fun if it is not US import.

The information is normally only found on the cars CoC. In EU countries it is often also mentioned on the cars registration paper. In Switzerland unfortunatly not. If you do not find you can get an extract from the Swiss type apporval database TRAGA which is available from your local garage, tire dealer or StVA/SAN. See example here: https://www.targatyre.ch/

You can also go the easy way: find your car on Reifendirekt. It provides compatible tyre sizes including load index.

Landers 26.10.2020 20:28

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
The higher rated tyres are stronger and generally therefore corner and brake better than the lower rated tyres. You'll often see "XL/ extra load" tyres specified for high performance cars and in that regard it has less to do with their weight.
Dunno about the Swiss rules but generally it's ok to go higher but not lower.


Your calculation in itself (i.e. ignoring any other rules) seems reasonable to me but the "other rules" might dictate a certain minimum rating.


If that 2385kg is the kerb weight then that's a monster of a car and I'd have thought the load index would be up in the 100s. I'd recommend you check with the car's papers. It could be that it would be legal but you might end up with a crappy driving experience.


Edit: seems "Gesamtgewicht" means allowable maximum weight i.e. with passengers and luggage etc. so not quite the monster I thought it was but probably still 5-series size.

newtoswitz 26.10.2020 20:29

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Why not do the same as everyone else - look at the ones currently on the car!

Landers 26.10.2020 20:37

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by newtoswitz (Post 3231656)
Why not do the same as everyone else - look at the ones currently on the car!




Well you never know if some :eek: has put the wrong ones on! Plus it's surely easier to google than to go out to the car. :-)

Nocando 26.10.2020 21:00

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by newtoswitz (Post 3231632)
It's possible my Swiss registered Ford is an outlier, but it definitely shows the full tyre specification on the driver information label for a range of options - wheel size, width, profile, maximum weight and speed rating.

So does my car.

newtoswitz 26.10.2020 21:25

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 3231660)
Well you never know if some :eek: has put the wrong ones on! Plus it's surely easier to google than to go out to the car. :-)

A fair point, and indeed Google does pull up the following table for my car from the manufacturer's UK site:

215/60 R16 99V
225/50 R17 98W
235/55 R17 103W
235/50 R18 101W

Which is identical to the label stuck to the B pillar.

It also shows UK main dealer prices for the tyres, which is very depressing when even Reifendirect cost more in CH.

Nocando 27.10.2020 10:42

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
This thread got me thinking and doing some digging.
As mention previously, just like newtoswitz's car, my car too has a huge range of options and allows different combinations of tyre specs. In fact, in my case, where the car has a different set of wheels in the front vs. the rear, the load indices are ( therefore ) different for the front vs. the rear. So very clearly, it's not that there is one load index that is sacrosanct for a car. It's both the tyre dimensions/ specs and the car that seem to determine the load index.
Can't figure out why changing the diameter / width / aspect ratio should change the load index. And can one take the lowest load index as the minimum to stick to?
Sorry for turning this into a purely academic discussion.
P.S. These Transportation/ driving threads are always so interesting.

aSwissInTheUS 27.10.2020 11:56

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nocando (Post 3231786)
can one take the lowest load index as the minimum to stick to?.

If the type approval/car sticker lists more than one dimension than the load and speed index must be at least the one given for a particular dimension.

Art. 58 VTS https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...index.html#a58

Except for winter tires where you can as low as 160 km/h (Q). But no exception with put further exception: In Italy during the summer months the speed index a winter tire must be at least the one given in the type approval/car sticker.
Art. 59 VTS https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...index.html#a58 and some dirctive or circulary from the Italien tranport ministry, http://www.pneumaticisottocontrollo....gory.php?id=15

fatmanfilms 27.10.2020 12:12

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by newtoswitz (Post 3231617)

Not for any length of time, if you do an emergency stop, multiples of the weight limit will be on the front tyres for several seconds, same if you hit a pothole.

Mr.Maquiavelo 28.10.2020 12:24

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 3231655)
The higher rated tyres are stronger and generally therefore corner and brake better than the lower rated tyres. You'll often see "XL/ extra load" tyres specified for high performance cars and in that regard it has less to do with their weight.
Dunno about the Swiss rules but generally it's ok to go higher but not lower.


Your calculation in itself (i.e. ignoring any other rules) seems reasonable to me but the "other rules" might dictate a certain minimum rating.


If that 2385kg is the kerb weight then that's a monster of a car and I'd have thought the load index would be up in the 100s. I'd recommend you check with the car's papers. It could be that it would be legal but you might end up with a crappy driving experience.


Edit: seems "Gesamtgewicht" means allowable maximum weight i.e. with passengers and luggage etc. so not quite the monster I thought it was but probably still 5-series size.


Thank you for the thoughtful comment! Indeed spot on, my car is a 530d xdrive.

Mr.Maquiavelo 28.10.2020 12:38

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Thank you all for the thoughtful and helpful comments. Indeed I have a 530d xdrive G30 limousine (or coupe).


My current summer tyres are:
- 245/40 R19 98Y front (extra load) Pirelli

- 275/35 R19 100Y back (extra load) Pirelli


I'm attempting to mount for Winter (got them second hand with profile of almost 7mm for 270.-CHF :msnblush: they look new):
- 245/40 R19 94V front Pirelli sottozero 3

- 275/35 R19 96V back Pirelli sottozero 3



To check for validity I did the following:

  • I called technischer verkehrsamt zürich 0588113228 and they checked my car data and confirmed it was OK
  • I checked on the door side and the minimum load index is indeed listed 94 or 96 BUT for different tyre sizes .. so I assume it's ok.
  • I called Binelli AG and they were confused and didn't know which tyre load index spec is the minimum, they said it was safer to put the highest and most expensive one ... how surprising.
  • I then contacted BMW directly, and they confirmed that for my car given the series, plate number and VIN serial number "the 94V and 96V are approved".
  • reifendirekt.ch doesn't list these indexes as available for my model but other online tyre sellers do.
  • pneuexperten.ch lists V94 for front and V96 for back see here https://www.pneuexperte.ch/de/TyreVe...eSeason=winter
I also find sellers in Canada / UK listing 94 and 96 as valid load indexes for my car ... so that's all the research :msnsarcastic:

Landers 28.10.2020 13:41

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Beware of using the online tyre retailers as a source of information. Often when you put in your car details it will then simply find the tyre size and give you all tyres that they have in that size whether they're suitable or not.

Jeep Life 28.10.2020 13:52

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Maquiavelo (Post 3232311)

I'm attempting to mount for Winter (got them second hand with profile of almost 7mm for 270.-CHF :msnblush: they look new) :

Don't worry about the looks. Make sure the production date is at minimum within the last 4 years. I wouldn't use anything that was produced in 2016 or older... Specially winter tyres.

Mr.Maquiavelo 28.10.2020 13:55

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeep Life (Post 3232369)
Don't worry about the looks. Make sure the production date is at minimum within the last 4 years. I wouldn't use anything that was produced in 2016 or older... Specially winter tyres.

Oh wow very good point. I didn’t know that. I will certainly check this.

fatmanfilms 28.10.2020 14:02

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Maquiavelo (Post 3232370)
Oh wow very good point. I didn’t know that. I will certainly check this.

I would not accept a winter tyre that is 1 year old, once they are 5-6 years old it's time to replace them regardless of tread.

Landers 28.10.2020 15:17

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeep Life (Post 3232369)
Don't worry about the looks. Make sure the production date is at minimum within the last 4 years. I wouldn't use anything that was produced in 2016 or older... Specially winter tyres.




I would say the opposite. If they look good they probably are. My winter tyres are 10 years old and there's nothing wrong with them. Some people have a very strong view on this and I don't need to hear them again but my view is if it was so serious it would be a check during the MFK. MFK check the condition not the production date. I'd rather my 10 year old winters rather than new all-seasons.


While I understand the arguments, google says:

Touring Club Switzerland (TCS) recommends waiting no more than eight years to replace your winter tyres

Jeep Life 28.10.2020 15:30

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 3232426)
I would say the opposite. If they look good they probably are. My winter tyres are 10 years old and there's nothing wrong with them. Some people have a very strong view on this and I don't need to hear them again but my view is if it was so serious it would be a check during the MFK. MFK check the condition not the production date. I'd rather my 10 year old winters rather than new all-seasons.


While I understand the arguments, google says:

Touring Club Switzerland (TCS) recommends waiting no more than eight years to replace your winter tyres

I'll go with the science and replace them looking at the production date. The cost is negligible taking safety into account. My family travel with me and their safety is quite important to me.

Even 8 years, in my books is too long time for the rubber compound to survive.

fatmanfilms 28.10.2020 15:40

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 3232426)
I would say the opposite. If they look good they probably are. My winter tyres are 10 years old and there's nothing wrong with them. Some people have a very strong view on this and I don't need to hear them again but my view is if it was so serious it would be a check during the MFK. MFK check the condition not the production date. I'd rather my 10 year old winters rather than new all-seasons.


While I understand the arguments, google says:

Touring Club Switzerland (TCS) recommends waiting no more than eight years to replace your winter tyres

I disagree, performance will be reduced as rubber hardens with age. I would rather take some Fresh all seasons than 8 year old winter tyres any day. Having fitted All seasons on 2 ex girlfriends cars, I doubt you would notice the difference with Winter. Talking about Continental All season & Pirelli Cintuarto all season plus. They both score highly in tests https://www.123pneus.fr/cgi-bin/rsho...n&typ=R-350942
https://www.123pneus.fr/cgi-bin/rsho...n&typ=R-350942

yarpen 28.10.2020 16:08

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 3232426)
If they look good they probably are. My winter tyres are 10 years old and there's nothing wrong with them

Do you accept the possibility that some material changes are not visible with human eye and the consequences of decreased rubber quality cannot be estimated with a touch of a hand?

Winter tyres should be replaced earlier than summer tyres.

Jeep Life 28.10.2020 16:32

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
To add, All Season tyres are much more advanced now. Some really do compete really well over mid range winter tyres. Sure for heavy winters you'll be much better off with dedicated winter tyres.

I live in somewhat mountain area, use quality all seasons and never had an issue. Mind you its a 4x4.

Go with the production date for safety and go with your heart (winter vs all seasons) for type :)

Mr.Maquiavelo 28.10.2020 17:44

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeep Life (Post 3232369)
Don't worry about the looks. Make sure the production date is at minimum within the last 4 years. I wouldn't use anything that was produced in 2016 or older... Specially winter tyres.

Where do you find the production date? Imprinted in the tyre or? I searched all over and couldn’t find a production date though as I said they look really new.

Jeep Life 28.10.2020 18:00

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Maquiavelo (Post 3232565)
Where do you find the production date? Imprinted in the tyre or? I searched all over and couldn’t find a production date though as I said they look really new.

All here, its the 4 number code

Landers 28.10.2020 18:08

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeep Life (Post 3232494)

Go with the production date for safety and go with your heart (winter vs all seasons) for type :)


Doesn't make any sense! Unless you're never actually going to drive around in sub 5 degree weather. While I agree *some* all-seasons are as good as *some* winters in general a winter tyre will drive and stop significantly better than all-seasons even when they're several years old and towards end of life in terms of tread. You can't say safety is your priority if you don't fit winter tyres.



While I agree there will be some degradation of performance compared to new, well taken care of tyres in good visual condition aren't going to spontaneously explode otherwise it'd be all over the news and there'd be police checks and the mfk would check.

fatmanfilms 28.10.2020 18:11

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 3232583)
While I agree there will be some degradation of performance compared to new, well taken care of tyres in good visual condition aren't going to spontaneously explode otherwise it'd be all over the news and there'd be police checks and the mfk would check.

Reduced grip & probably some very small cracking. Neither would effect an MFK pass or a police control as the law is based on tread depth, tyres could be 20 years old, well 13 years old when I bought my Porsche 911 in CH.

Jeep Life 28.10.2020 18:21

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 3232583)


While I agree there will be some degradation of performance compared to new, well taken care of tyres in good visual condition aren't going to spontaneously explode otherwise it'd be all over the news and there'd be police checks and the mfk would check.

It's not about tyres exploding, but more about grip and handling in winter temperatures :)

st2lemans 28.10.2020 19:01

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Boxster: only summer tires
Panda: only winter tires
Maverick: 4 season tires
Fiesta: two sets of tires and rims, will change this weekend

Tom

Landers 28.10.2020 19:07

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeep Life (Post 3232594)
It's not about tyres exploding, but more about grip and handling in winter temperatures :)


Probably still better than your average all-season. So thanks. I'll keep my still-soft crack-free ten year old winter tyres and not worry about it.

aSwissInTheUS 29.10.2020 09:23

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Landers (Post 3232622)
Probably still better than your average all-season. So thanks. I'll keep my still-soft crack-free ten year old winter tyres and not worry about it.

:msnmad: Such a bull shitter managed to rear end me last year. Not lot of fun being suddenly jolted forwards on a motorbike. Luckily, no whiplash injury and he took full responsibility, even insisted on the cops being called on the scene.

fatmanfilms 29.10.2020 09:46

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aSwissInTheUS (Post 3232756)
:msnmad: Such a bull shitter managed to rear end me last year. Not lot of fun being suddenly jolted forwards on a motorbike. Luckily, no whiplash injury and he took full responsibility, even insisted on the cops being called on the scene.

Was the bike OK?

EPMike 29.10.2020 10:06

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 3232441)
I disagree, performance will be reduced as rubber hardens with age. I would rather take some Fresh all seasons than 8 year old winter tyres any day. Having fitted All seasons on 2 ex girlfriends cars, I doubt you would notice the difference with Winter. Talking about Continental All season & Pirelli Cintuarto all season plus. They both score highly in tests https://www.123pneus.fr/cgi-bin/rsho...n&typ=R-350942
https://www.123pneus.fr/cgi-bin/rsho...n&typ=R-350942

Maybe there is your reason for the "ex" part :p

fatmanfilms 29.10.2020 10:08

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EPMike (Post 3232795)
Maybe there is your reason for the "ex" part :p

They were current GF's at the time the tyres were fitted :D, I was wondering if anyone was going to pick that up :D

EPMike 29.10.2020 10:38

Re: Car tyre load index?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 3232797)
They were current GF's at the time the tyres were fitted :D, I was wondering if anyone was going to pick that up :D

I'll keep the "tip" in mind just in case... It seems like a proven process...:p


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