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Old 06.11.2020, 12:28
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After sales, obligation of a garage? Or not...

Afternoon all
Recently bought a 2nd hand car (10 yrs old) from an official garage. Was pretty expensive. 125K kms. It came with the Quality1 guarantee.



Had it 1 month, and less than 1000kms driven. Engine light came on, took it to AMAG and they've quoted me 3000chf for a new injection system. Quality1 will pay 50%.



I looked at the Quality1 guarantee's t's & c's and indeed after a certain mileage they pay 50%, so no issues there. This wasn't made clear to me when i bought the car though, but ok...'ish.


Question, does the garage have any obligation to help out with this bill? Of course i have my own maintenance obligations and was given the guarantee. But this garage did a service and kanton inspection before i collected it, yet 1 month later i get this bill. Is this just bad luck and hope for a goodwill gesture? Or does the garage have some sort of duty because i just bought it and already i'm forking out another 1.5k almost immediately.



(I'm guessing it's tough luck)



I did email the garage and no reply, hence why i'm here.



Thanks a lot.
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Old 06.11.2020, 12:46
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Re: After sales, obligation of a garage? Or not...

According to this you have one year warranty for second-hand goods.

But you need to check the terms of your contract - the above is effectively the default, and the point at which providers can be confident they aren't breaking other rules like unfair competition, which doesn't mean they don't do it or that practical norms in some areas aren't different.

Also they will almost certainly say that this happened after you bought it, and is normal wear and tear. So all of these point to getting what you can from them as a goodwill gesture - which i doubt you would get in cash, but they may give you a good deal if done by/through them (if they do it at cost, nobody loses).
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Old 06.11.2020, 13:06
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Re: After sales, obligation of a garage? Or not...

You have to discern between two things.

First, the warranty according the Code of Obligations (which by the way can be excluded. Read your contract,). The warranty is between the seller and the buyer of the good.

and

Second, guarantees provided by third parties such as the manufacturer or insurances. This guarantees can have clauses, restrictions ans special provisions.

If there is a defect one has to chooses between the first and the second. Depending on the circumstances one or the other is easier or better. In case you want to peruse your rights according the code of obligations you must contact the seller and discuss how thing can be fixed. In general you would have to bring the defective good to the seller and they try to fix it. If not possible or unsuccessful the law offers various options including reducing the sale price or reversing the sales contract.

In case you decide on the second option you should first carefully read the guarantees terms and conditions and then follow the proper procedure. Be aware that if you go this way you might forgo rights you would have by law.

You decided on the latter. Some of the replacement cost are covered by the guarantee. However, the reminder might be up on the seller. Unfortunately there is a tiny problem. You did not give the seller the opportunity to fix the issue themselves. Maybe not the whole system needed to be changed but just one single injector worth CHF 60.

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But this garage did a service and kanton inspection before i collected it, yet 1 month later i get this bill
MFK/Inspection does not cover such things. All they care about is that the engine warning light is not on. A car could have a tiny rest of ten year old engine oil and it would pass inspection.
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Old 06.11.2020, 13:30
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Re: After sales, obligation of a garage? Or not...

Question to the OP - is this 3000 CHF a quote or an invoice for work done?

You say both in the first post, so it isn't clear.

If you've already had the work done - the original garage almost certainly won't entertain any support, because:

- as above legally they don't have to
- if they'd done the work they could give a discount through reduced profits, actually giving money out is a whole different ballgame.
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Old 06.11.2020, 13:36
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Re: After sales, obligation of a garage? Or not...

I would get a quote from an independent garage or from across the border, no doubt less than 1500, probably just 1 needs changing or cleaning. Main dealers have a warehouse full of used parts & should be avoided, you might just need to get a code reader & reset the light every 6 months.
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Old 06.11.2020, 15:24
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Hey thanks, very helpful and much appreciated.



Well I didn't realise i could potentially ask for reduced selling price or reverse the sale, and considering he's not replying I don't think i'll have much luck with any compromises.



The straw that's broke the camels back is i already took it to the dealer who's ordered the part. It was AMAG so i'm sure they're replacing the unit for a reason. And as it's 50% covered, it's probably better to get replaced and bear the brunt of the cost (saves issues in the future). If i'd have to fork out 3000chf i'd personally be down to the garage and demand a chat but for all the legal hassles probably better to pay up, do an inspection on the rest of the car and hope for the best.



If i'd *thought* (duh) beforehand to seek advice from the garage i'd have gone there and discussed it but in my frustration and disappointment the first thing i did was take it to AMAG just to get it sorted. Then try to rely on some decency from the seller and hope for a at least a partial payment for the work (whether that's before completion, or after).



Not the end of the world, but i'm waiting for the next issue (powerful car, not really for grownups, sat in the forecourt for 1.5 yrs, high mileage...may not have been the most rational of decisions).

Ill continue to ping him, and hope he comes back with some reply. But now i'm getting it sorted, my options are limited...and looks like it will be a goodwill gesture or nowt.



Thanks very much for your help. Good of you to answer.

Last edited by roegner; 06.11.2020 at 15:44. Reason: Merging consecutive posts
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Old 06.11.2020, 15:46
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Re: After sales, obligation of a garage? Or not...

The seller (probably) has a duty to provide the car 'fit for purpose' regardless if if he did or didn't know about the injector problem so any come back would be based on interpretation of that and also how the car was described.


The injectors went on my brother's car and he sent them off for some special cleaning and that worked, at least for now.


Go on then, tell us what you got
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Old 06.11.2020, 16:08
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Re: After sales, obligation of a garage? Or not...

I should have known tbh. The engine popped a bit at idle (when i test drove it), but i thought that was just the big pipes. Then it got worse after i changed the fuel from 95 to 97 (coincidence, not sure) then the emissions light came on. VW Scirocco R as in Rrrr'r. It's pretty cool (call it a mid life crisis)....Got some waves from some teenage kids hanging out the bus stop the other day, dam that felt good! Very sad....
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Old 06.11.2020, 16:09
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Re: After sales, obligation of a garage? Or not...

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Ill continue to ping him, and hope he comes back with some reply.
how do you "ping" using registered mail? Got it? If you have demands and whish to communicate with the seller use registered mail. No e-mail, telephone, social network, or instant messengers of any kind.
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Old 06.11.2020, 16:16
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Re: After sales, obligation of a garage? Or not...

Sure, yes that's sensible. I always like to try to be as personal and human as possible, hence email and first name terms. But yes, when it comes to money the niceities can easily disappear. If no ping reply will send formal letter. I'd like to think he's on holiday or something and he seemed like a decent chap.
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Old 06.11.2020, 16:39
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Re: After sales, obligation of a garage? Or not...

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I'd like to think he's on holiday or something and he seemed like a decent chap.
Yeah that's probably it
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Old 06.11.2020, 19:09
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Re: After sales, obligation of a garage? Or not...

What's a fuel injection system??
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Old 06.11.2020, 20:50
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Re: After sales, obligation of a garage? Or not...

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I always like to try to be as personal and human as possible, hence email and first name terms. But yes, when it comes to money the niceities can easily disappear. If no ping reply will send formal letter. I'd like to think he's on holiday or something and he seemed like a decent chap.
  • If you wish to be personable, and likeable, and try to settle the matter on friendly terms then - in Switzerland - mail (as in e-mail) is not the way to go.
    The means of communication for the nice route are a phonecall or a personal visit.

  • If you wish to be formal and correct, and try to settle this in a business-like manner then - in Switzerland - mail (as in e-mail) is not the way to go.
    The means of setting things out in a formal business manner is a letter on paper, setting out the facts un-emotionally and stating what you want done, sent in an envelope.

    The means of making a demand for what you consider your rights is a letter on paper, setting out the facts un-emotionally and stating what you want done, by when, to repair the matter, and sent in an envelope, sent by registered mail (i.e. handed in at the Post Office for a fee of Fr. 6, and a receipt). Keep that receipt together with a copies of the envelope, your signed letter, and any attachments you enclosed.
Mails are for relationships which are up and running and working properly.

Last edited by doropfiz; 14.11.2020 at 10:04.
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