Hello Everyone,

I am a new to the forum and also in Switzerland. Firstly I would like to thank you for the valuable information and content of this forum which has helped me in multiple occasions.

Currently I live in Basel and I work 35 km away. I am lately in a dilemma on whether I should buy a dream motorbike or lease a very nice car. It seems to me owning or leasing a nice car is a big expense per monthly basis, unlike the motorbike which is much cheaper. To be exact, according to my calculations all costs associated with the car (parking, petrol, taxes, insruance and leasing rate) comes down to 850 chf per month. On the other side, the motorbike comes down to a cost of 350 chf per month (we are not talking about leasing here). Of course leasing a car it seems to me that is a huge financial obligation which you cannot go out of it easily, thus I am very skeptical about it for that reason too.

I always liked and had motorbikes, had road trips in the past, been in race tracks and attending courses, commuted to work with motorbike, no problems with comfort. I would go for motorbike hands down, however I am very skeptical about the weather and how unpredictable can be in times where for example, in the morning is sunny (heading to work) and then it turns out to be rainy on the way back (coming back from work).

1. Has anyone experience with commuting to work with a motorbike everyday to work?
2. Is the weather so bad as everyone say?
3. For example I am a real fun of the Panigale 895. Would it be possible to commute to work with such a super-sport bike?
4. Would it be possible for three months in December, January and February take the train and the rest of the year maybe ride?

I am really confused and any response would be highly appreciated!!!

Thank you in advance

I had 2 cars & 2 motorbikes, you won't want to use the bike with 30cm of snow on the road.

If an idiot pulls out in front of you in a car, the airbags go off and make a bit of a stink, you turn the radio off undo your seat belt and get out to shout at them.

On a motorbike, you're likely dead...

When I took the motorbike test in London, the instructor got run over. It was an unplanned lesson but very insightful.


He was lying on the side of the road and the driver was telling a police officer "I never saw a motorcyclist stop at a red light before". That is why she ran into the back of him.



I always ride with the assumption that:


a) every car driver is an idiot


b) every car driver is about to pull out in front of me or run into the back of me (both of these things have happened from time to time too)



If I ride with those assumptions in mind then it helps me avoid the drivers who really are idiots.


This strategy also works for cycling.


Some police in London told me they were so convinced that drivers would kill them that they would never even get on a two-wheel vehicle in London.

Answering the original question, 35km will be too far when the temperatures are below about 5 degrees. I only make short journeys under 10 minutes between December and February. Any more than 10 minutes and the cold is too painful for the fingers, even with heated grips. If you have to work late and the snow is falling and it is dark then it is really hard to get home on two wheels.


I made some very short trips, maybe 2km, with snow falling but I don't recommend it. I only did this because the snow started falling after I went out and I was just riding back home. I wouldn't choose to go out on two wheels if I knew it was going to snow before I return.



In the summer months it is great fun, saves money and also saves a lot of time. Best solution is to have both car and bike.

agree, I have a motorbike with knoby tires, that even have M+S on them, I once did almost fifty km in snow, but only because I had too, I mean I am not always smart, but I am stupidly stubborn. And I was in Masiff Central, on the way to sunny Spain and there was a hotel waiting for me.
I do trips to Tessin with my bike, whenever it is warm enough:
- above zero on the highest point (Gothard tunnel)
- no precipitation with temperature below 10°C
but my bike is very light enduro with above mentioned knobby tyres and I was collecting riding gear for few years to get a combination working for me
but, yes, go for it, passion for motorbiking in non-ideal conditions forms a formidable personality, through some real miserable experiences. Or is it the opposite...

Well, thank you everyone for their responses!

Of course having both is the best solution undoubtedly. Of course safety (and convenience) is paramount and a car provides that unlike a motorcycle. But the motorbike is passion!

To be pragmatic I was thinking that the winter months, from December to beginning of March, I would be using public transport and the rest of the year commuting with the motorbike.

Thank you

Lots of people do this. You can deposit the number plates at the "Strassenverkehrsamt" by the ~end of October and get them back ~before Easter, then your tax/insurance cost will be cut by a third or more.

Neither tax nor insurance is much. For insurance specifically, the companies will give a you a better rate if you don't deposit plates regularly, as it's a PITA administratively and it ends up costing them more.

I would say you would be able to ride mid March to mid Nov, with decent gear. March and Nov can be painful if they're cold, but last couple of years global warming has kicked in with a vengeance so you could probably do them relatively easy.

If you like bikes, split it between that and public transport.
If you have some space at work to change etc, after a while you get in a rhythm and it's actually quite OK.

__________________
Nothing is fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool

For those who want to do it it's possible, I used to use public transport for a month or two when the frost was bad or there was actual snow around.

Heated grips are fine, but what changed my winter riding completely was a Gerbing heated jacket. Once your torso is warm and pumping lovely warm blood around, it feels as though you don't need the heated grips anymore.

I thought it was a bit of a weak move to have heated gear as a "macho" biker. I was very very wrong. You're more aware when you're at the right temperature and you also don't need to be the Michelin man so you still have mobility. It also means that for those 8 hour long wet miserable journeys that you don't end up shivering after the wet inevitably seeps through some gap in your waterproofs.

I wouldn't call a Pani the perfect commuter bike. The best flexibility would be to have the Pani for fun, a commuter bike on the same license plate and a beater car when you need it and and/or a GA plus Mobility membership.

A commuter bike has in my opinion:
ABS, up-right riding, some fearing, and pannier/top box.

That would be any sports-tourer or travel-enduro (these days the border are not that clear anymore) or a big scooters such as the X-Max or C 650


Anlas has some nice winter tires which also fit on a Pani. Stopping distance on cold and wet road of the Anlas Winter Grip is fantastic. But do not expect super perfect snow riding. In the end you will only have two wheels. If the grip is gone on one of them, chances are high you will pick up the bike from the ground.

But the biggest problem in winter riding is neither snow, the cold, or ice but NaCl. Salt. It can kill your linkage and wheel bearing really fast. It also creeps into other nooks and cavities were it can do its harm.

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"Okay, I just hope we don't wake up on Mars or something surrounded by millions of little squashy guys."

Hm, I was always avoiding this, and ended wearing too many layers, unable to move properly.
Can you tell me few things:
- are you running it on battery back, or on motorbike electrical power? How much power does it take. I have always feeling my motorbike is kind of weak on electrical side with puny 280W alternator and heavy one cylinder to start
- I read on their page: "Gerbing 12V Heated Jacket Line", so it is used as a liner of (any) jacket? Or you need to buy their jacket?

The Gerbings is a liner that should fit comfortably enough under any jacket you have.

I have been using (the same Gerbings) heated jacket for over 15 years now and never regretted it. Every bike I get I immediately install a plug adaptor that goes directly to the battery. I've never had a problem with the jacket pulling too much power, and I've had some pretty weak alternators on a couple of the bikes.

What is important is to get a "troller" - this gives you the variability of heat and not just off/on. It is well worth the extra money.

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"You don't know unless you ask"

Like motorcycles? Like photos? Check out my website: www.dantesdame.com

If you enjoy motorcycling then I'd say that you can easily commute around the Basel area without a car for most of the year. I'm not sure if I'd want to commute on a sporty sport bike personally, but everyone has their preferences.

-I run off the bike, no idea the power it takes.

-I have the jacket liner, which looks like a simple windbreaker, it is windproof as well and alone acts as a nice underlayer to a jacket. To use it I take out whatever lining is already in the jacket, and then it's long sleeve t-shirt, gebring, and jacket (a dainese) on top. It's like wearing a jumper under your jacket, it doesn't need to interface with your jacket in any way.
I've the older version of this: https://www.gerbing.com/heated-jacket-liner

The controller is needed, forgot it one time and it goes on full power if you plug it straight in. My controller has 5 settings, 1-warm, 2-hot, 3-there better be ice forming on your boots, 4 - I see you've taken up skidooing and 5 - I don't know why people complain about the artic weather.

Thanks for the groan Dante. However the above is a simple matter of physics.

FYI: I have held a full m/c driving license since the 1960s and still hold a Swiss category A one. Thanks to caution, luck and giving up riding at 40 I'm still here...

Something which may be important to remember which most people don't think about.

Motorbikes generally require more maintenance. A car generally has a service once a year or 25-30k km. A motorbike (kawasaki in my case) is about every 6 or 12k km. Tyres also wear out a lot faster on a bike, especially a sports bike. A service (for me) is generally 500 to 800chf.

You should also grease/clean the chain regularly to keep it in good condition. Especially if you drive in all conditions. Not difficult but a pain to do, especially if you don't have a garage in winter.

I'm not trying to scare you away from commuting on the bike, I have done it from time to time including in heavy snow (which was interesting on the motorway). I had the advantage of being able to shower in work though as in summer you can get kinda sweaty and in the winter you can freeze your ass off.

In any case I wish you the best with your choice

I figure that anyone who is already riding a motorcycle already knows of the inherent dangers of being on two wheels. Your comment was, IMHO, not really contributing to the OP's question.

I've been riding for 30 years and have (fortunately) never been in multi-vehicle crash (I specify that because I ride off road and have "dropped" my bike numerous times). Having ridden mostly in the US, including the death zone that is New Jersey, riding here in Switzerland is a breeze

OP, have you thought about a Honda NC750 with the dct ? These are lovely bikes and overall good allrounders. They have a handy >20L storage compartment so you dont need a backpack and can always carry raingear. The dct can be used as automatic or flappy paddle manual gearbox, in automatic mode consumption is less than 3.3L per 100km. These bikes have been along for a long time and can be had relatively cheap.

You can always get a second bike on the same plate/insurance. I have the nc750xd for most of my riding and a couple of classic harleys for a putput around the zurisee on a sunny day.

In the case of sun in the morning and rain in the afternoon I would leave the bike at work and go home with the train.

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Happiness is a full tank of gas (or better yet, diesel !)

Thank you again for the answer once again.

Very interesting to see the heating jacket, never heard of it! Thank you Ato for the tip.

With regards to motorbike selection, I have never ridden the Pani, however is my dream moto. In terms of comfort, I never had problems with super-sport bikes after 2 hours on the saddle. Of course it is not like a T-max Yamaha which is like sitting on a sofa .

About salt, very good point that I did not think about and never had experience with that.

Very good Millso point also about the maintenance cost which is high due to the frequency of maintenance, wear of chains and tyres. Also visits to Ducati is a drainer (if anyone has experience owning a Ducati maybe you could share the associated costs with us).

And 0 for me!

I use Scottoilers.

Tom