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Old 02.12.2020, 17:53
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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I don't understand why people buy pricey and capable vehicles and then skimp on tyres. It's pretty much the most important part of the car that is under your control to change.

Exactly this. So much of your ability to stop quickly or maintain control in icy condition depends on the friction between your tires and the road. Your tires are one of the most important safety features of your car, riding on all seasons or summers and just "being extra careful" make no sense at all.
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Old 02.12.2020, 18:40
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

Many thanks for your responses everyone.

One follow-up question: in case of an accident, could 'all-season' tyres ever be considered as inappropriate for the winter driving conditions by an insurance company?
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Old 02.12.2020, 18:47
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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well, it categorically is true. both from experience and every tyre test. depends how you drive I suppose, but if you want to get the most out of how your car was designed, I'd stay way clear of them.

I don't understand why people buy pricey and capable vehicles and then skimp on tyres. It's pretty much the most important part of the car that is under your control to change.
Turning off the traction control if you want some fun & know how to drive. I drove Porsche 911's for over 30 years, no servo brakes on the first, no power steering & no ABS. Far more fun than newer cars, drove on snow with summer tyres Most of my winter driving over 500,000 km in CH was on RWD BMW's only ever fitted chains if the Police made me.
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Old 02.12.2020, 18:48
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

probably not if they were not ancient and had good tread left.

but why? it isn't even economy. the only thing you save is the hassle of changing tyres (or wheels) twice a year. not even that as you'll need to change the tyres eventually anyway. once a tyre has been on the car for 5 years its gone. even with zero km on it. rock hard compound and no grip.

for simplification let's assume you spend 6 months on summers and 6 on winters. they last twice as long so you spend the same.

ok - maybe winters and good summers tend to cost a bit more than all seasons and all seasons might wear a little slower but that comes at a huge compromise in grip, safety, speed, fun, noise, feedback and comfort.
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Old 02.12.2020, 18:52
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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probably not if they were not ancient and had good tread left.

but why? it isn't even economy. the only thing you save is the hassle of changing tyres (or wheels) twice a year. not even that as you'll need to change the tyres eventually anyway. once a tyre has been on the car for 5 years its gone. even with zero km on it. rock hard compound and no grip.

for simplification let's assume you spend 6 months on summers and 6 on winters. they last twice as long so you spend the same.

ok - maybe winters and good summers tend to cost a bit more than all seasons and all seasons might wear a little slower but that comes at a huge compromise in grip, safety, speed, fun, noise, feedback and comfort.
The Top Pirelli All seasons really do not have inferior performance, more expensive than Winter too. I prefer very new tyres, I would rather they be worn out within 2-3 years of manufacture than drive on 4-5 year old winter tyres that will underperform v new all season.
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Old 02.12.2020, 18:52
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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Many thanks for your responses everyone.

One follow-up question: in case of an accident, could 'all-season' tyres ever be considered as inappropriate for the winter driving conditions by an insurance company?
It really depends. If you get rear-ended, you are not likely to be deemed at fault. If you rear-end somebody because you couldn’t stop ...
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Old 02.12.2020, 18:54
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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Many thanks for your responses everyone.

One follow-up question: in case of an accident, could 'all-season' tyres ever be considered as inappropriate for the winter driving conditions by an insurance company?
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It really depends. If you get rear-ended, you are not likely to be deemed at fault. If you rear-end somebody because you couldn’t stop ...
Nope as they have the 'snow flake' symbol so are deemed to be winter tyres.
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  #28  
Old 02.12.2020, 18:55
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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Turning off the traction control if you want some fun & know how to drive. I drove Porsche 911's for over 30 years, no servo brakes on the first, no power steering & no ABS. Far more fun than newer cars, drove on snow with summer tyres Most of my winter driving over 500,000 km in CH was on RWD BMW's only ever fitted chains if the Police made me.
drive them on snow with winter tyres (and an LSD) and they are even more fun! just back now from a drive in my 991.2 on winters in the snow. agreed, in the dry its a little numb and boring like all modern cars but in these conditions its better than the old cars. I'd rather be out in my '74 3.0 RS any day but it's not practical.

nothing changes that fact a modern 4wd car with ABS and winters is safer daily driving on the public road.
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Old 02.12.2020, 18:57
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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I prefer very new tyres, I would rather they be worn out within 2-3 years of manufacture than drive on 4-5 year old winter tyres that will underperform v new all season.
agreed. but I never get more than one season out of either set anyway. ~10k km and they are binned.
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Old 02.12.2020, 19:00
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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nothing changes that fact a modern 4wd car with ABS and winters is safer daily driving on the public road.
I am not aware that insurance claims are lower, Idiots just drive faster because they think they can. Always amused when I see a Range Rover in the ditch on mountain roads with snow, you can't get away from basic physics, 4WD does not help with stopping. Citroen 2CV's always did well in snow because they were light with thin tyres.........
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Old 02.12.2020, 19:03
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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agreed. but I never get more than one season out of either set anyway. ~10k km and they are binned.
Then you only need 1 set of rims & would need 2 sets of All season tyres a year, so are saving money by buying a set of Summer & Winter tyres each year.
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Old 02.12.2020, 19:17
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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I am not aware that insurance claims are lower, Idiots just drive faster because they think they can. Always amused when I see a Range Rover in the ditch on mountain roads with snow, you can't get away from basic physics, 4WD does not help with stopping. Citroen 2CV's always did well in snow because they were light with thin tyres.........
partially agreed. I'd take my 1960 mini on dunlop aquajets if I was ever really in a hurry over a snowy mountain.

most winter accidents aren't so much about stopping as turning. a 4wd car will corner much faster. I think audi cemented that point pretty firmly when they introduced the quattro S1...

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Old 02.12.2020, 19:18
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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Then you only need 1 set of rims & would need 2 sets of All season tyres a year, so are saving money by buying a set of Summer & Winter tyres each year.
for most cars, yes. but they don't make winter tyres wide enough to fit the 911 rear summer wheels. makes swapping them quicker....
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Old 02.12.2020, 19:19
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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I don't mean to deflate the whole topic, but any mods want to stick this onto the other old winter tyre treads that aren't worn out? It's a tired subject at this point and the many points of friction have been gone into to at least the minimum of 1.6mm depth on this.
I feel these wheel ideas just keep going around in circles.
Congratulations on working tirelessly on this post. Has it been a goodyear?
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Old 02.12.2020, 19:23
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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partially agreed. I'd take my 1960 mini on dunlop aquajets if was ever really in a hurry over a snowy mountain.

most winter accidents aren't so much about stopping as turning. a 4wd car will corner much faster. I think audi cementing that point pretty firmly when they introduced the quattro S1...
Cornering much faster & overall being safer with less accidents don't go hand in hand. Yet to see insurance discounts for 4x4's
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Old 02.12.2020, 19:25
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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buy a set of summers and a set of winters. you'll only wear the tyres currently on the car so it doesn't cost any more.
There are costs of changing the tyres twice a year, and storage cost of wheels / tyres for some.

And, not everyone eats through even a single set of tyres in their lifetime of ownership. We kept our last car for 5 year and both sets of original tyres went to the new owner with most of their tread remaining.
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Old 02.12.2020, 19:29
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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Cornering much faster & overall being safer with less accidents don't go hand in hand. Yet to see insurance discounts for 4x4's
well if you have an accident because you slide off a corner (pretty common in snow), then having a combination of car and tyres that allows more grip cornering would have reduced the chance of that accident.

even if you haven't a clue how to drive fast sideways, the traction control will make use of that extra grip on your behalf.
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Old 02.12.2020, 19:35
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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There are costs of changing the tyres twice a year, and storage cost of wheels / tyres for some.

And, not everyone eats through even a single set of tyres in their lifetime of ownership. We kept our last car for 5 year and both sets of original tyres went to the new owner with most of their tread remaining.
I hope the new owner changed them immediately. Downright dangerous if the car had been parked not in total darkness for those 5 years.

I've often changed tyres with perfectly good tread just because they got too old. My Pug 205 had about 200 km on the last set that got binned.

costs of changing them are minimal even if you pay a garage to do it. If you have a second set of wheels you can do it yourself.
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Old 02.12.2020, 19:36
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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Nope as they have the 'snow flake' symbol so are deemed to be winter tyres.
So you just moved the goalposts. Sounds like you've found something good, but with the snowflake symbol they classify as Winter Tyres by any definition of the term.

If they're also good for summer driving then so be it, but you're just confusing the issue by claiming that 'all-season' tyres are just as good, when what you really should be saying is 'At least one all-season tyre has proper winter characteristics'.
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Old 02.12.2020, 19:36
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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BTW, all seasons are terrible.
Not modern ones.

Tom
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