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  #41  
Old 02.12.2020, 19:38
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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it is worth mentioning that some neighbouring countries and regions mandate winter tyres.
Italy winter tires OR chains in the car, but onlyif there is snow on the road.

Tom
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  #42  
Old 02.12.2020, 19:44
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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in case of an accident, could 'all-season' tyres ever be considered as inappropriate for the winter driving conditions by an insurance company?
Not if they have the mountain and snowflake symbols, as mine do.

Tom
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  #43  
Old 02.12.2020, 19:54
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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Not modern ones.

Tom
Well Iím not going to argue the point any further, but suffice to say I vehemently disagree. And Iím paid by tyre makers for my feedback on their experimental competition tyres, so Iíd say my opinion carries at least some weight.
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  #44  
Old 02.12.2020, 19:56
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

I'm currently looking into winter tyres and have found a great Bridgestone set, but I'm concerned about the load index (LI). The manufacturer's LI is 94 and the set I'm interested in has a LI of 98. Can I assume it's safe to opt for a LI higher than the manufacturer's?
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  #45  
Old 02.12.2020, 19:57
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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No, but in steep roads in the mountains covered with snow, specially if there's a schneeketten obligatorisch sign. So far I've only seen this on Graubunden up in the hills https://www.tcs.ch/de/testberichte-r...igatorisch.php
Actually it's pretty common but as they take the signs down in summer you may not have noticed.

For example - access to Flumserberg above Flums, up past Linthal, at least one of the minor passes in Toggenburg (can't remember which one).
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  #46  
Old 02.12.2020, 19:59
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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Well Iím not going to argue the point any further, but suffice to say I vehemently disagree. And Iím paid by tyre makers for my feedback on their experimental competition tyres, so Iíd say my opinion carries at least some weight.
Have you directly compared winter v all season with a stop watch, or just giving some background that may or may not have any weight in the discussion as it would appear your mind is made up.
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Old 02.12.2020, 20:06
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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Last and not least, cleaning the windows as well as front/rear lights of snow and ice is mandatory, one can get fined and even lose the license if driver's view or signalling is obstructed. It's a good idea to clean any snow off the car for the same reason. All explained in the TCS advice above
Also... you shouldn't really switch your engine on, then get out and clear the snow and ice.
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  #48  
Old 02.12.2020, 20:07
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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Have you directly compared winter v all season with a stop watch, or just giving some background that may or may not have any weight in the discussion as it would appear your mind is made up.
I donít need to. I can spend 10s driving a car equipped with them (other peopleís cars, obviously!) and immediately feel the difference. I can also look at the tread pattern and feel the compound and tell it wonít be anywhere near as good.

I HAVE spend many hours timing the effect of minor differences in other tyres which has contributed to quantifying my experiences.
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  #49  
Old 02.12.2020, 21:02
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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I hope the new owner changed them immediately. Downright dangerous if the car had been parked not in total darkness for those 5 years.
Instead of paying attention to unnecessary scaremongering, I recommend that anyone concerned about their tyres should check the manufacturers website.

The manufacturer of the 5 year old tyres on my previous car advises that once the tyres pass five years, it is advisable that they are inspected yearly, and that they should probably be changed as a precaution after ten years.

Although there's no mention of a need to park cars in total darkness for 5 years, it does advise that the lifespan and mileage of a tyre depends on a combination of factors: its design, the driver, the climate, the road conditions, the weight of the car, checking tyre pressures and car maintenance.

Last edited by HIAO; 02.12.2020 at 21:12.
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  #50  
Old 02.12.2020, 21:07
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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Instead of paying attention to unnecessary scaremongering, I recommend that anyone whose concerned about their tyres checks the manufacturers website.

The manufacturer of the 5 year old tyres on my last car advises that once the tyres pass five years, it is advisable that they are inspected yearly, and that they should probably be changed as a precaution after ten years.

Although there's no mention of a requirement to park your cars in total darkness, it does advise that the lifespan and mileage of a tyre depends of a combination of factors: its design, the driver, the climate, the road conditions, the weight of the car, checking tyre pressures and car maintenance.
Winter tyres will perform less well at 5 years old as the rubber dries out & hardens. At 10 years old they will grip very badly on snow. Aging rubber is why condoms have a sell by date!
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  #51  
Old 02.12.2020, 21:36
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

is it prohibited to use tires with a spikes in CH?
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  #52  
Old 02.12.2020, 21:50
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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So you just moved the goalposts. Sounds like you've found something good, but with the snowflake symbol they classify as Winter Tyres by any definition of the term.

If they're also good for summer driving then so be it, but you're just confusing the issue by claiming that 'all-season' tyres are just as good, when what you really should be saying is 'At least one all-season tyre has proper winter characteristics'.

I think most, if not all, all-season tyres also have the snowflake symbol these days. Some all-seasons can be as good as some winter tyres and in fact some manufacturers simply used to change the sidewall printing on the same tyre.
An average all-season will be miles better than a summer tyre and it would be quite foolish to go out onto snow or ice covered roads on summer tyres. An average winter tyre will be miles better than an average all-season but that doesn't necessarily make the all-seasons dangerous.



All-seasons are still a compromise in both winter and summer driving some more one way than the other. One makes a choice as to how much winter and summer performance they need but if safety is your priority generally you fit good summer tyres and good winter tyres.
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  #53  
Old 02.12.2020, 22:17
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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is it prohibited to use tires with a spikes in CH?
Normally, yes, except on private roads.

Tom
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  #54  
Old 02.12.2020, 22:29
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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is it prohibited to use tires with a spikes in CH?
Yes. They destroy the road. Spikes are for use on snow on top of ice. All the time. If you use them on normal ploughed and salted roads they quickly become ineffective. Which is a shame because they are expensive.

I was always confused why they are the law in Russia in the winter even in cities. Assumed it must be because someone who made the rule owns the importer.
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Old 02.12.2020, 22:36
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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I think most, if not all, all-season tyres also have the snowflake symbol these days. Some all-seasons can be as good as some winter tyres and in fact some manufacturers simply used to change the sidewall printing on the same tyre.
An average all-season will be miles better than a summer tyre and it would be quite foolish to go out onto snow or ice covered roads on summer tyres. An average winter tyre will be miles better than an average all-season but that doesn't necessarily make the all-seasons dangerous.



All-seasons are still a compromise in both winter and summer driving some more one way than the other. One makes a choice as to how much winter and summer performance they need but if safety is your priority generally you fit good summer tyres and good winter tyres.
Itís not quite as simple as progressively better or worse. A winter tyre is completely different. It is made with a much softer sidewall construction (if you ever fit one youíll notice this) and the crucially compound is a completely different material. It has very high silica and becomes even softer at lower temperatures. The opposite of a normal tyre. The tread is the most obvious difference but probably the least important.

It amazes me that anyone who has experienced both would ever consider an all season which is just the worst of both worlds.

If youíre seriously interested in understanding why I care so much about this and you are passing Ticino, let me know and Iím sure we can arrange a demonstration complete with stopwatches!
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  #56  
Old 02.12.2020, 22:40
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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Instead of paying attention to unnecessary scaremongering, I recommend that anyone concerned about their tyres should check the manufacturers website.

The manufacturer of the 5 year old tyres on my previous car advises that once the tyres pass five years, it is advisable that they are inspected yearly, and that they should probably be changed as a precaution after ten years.

Although there's no mention of a need to park cars in total darkness for 5 years, it does advise that the lifespan and mileage of a tyre depends on a combination of factors: its design, the driver, the climate, the road conditions, the weight of the car, checking tyre pressures and car maintenance.
UV hardens the tyre. Thatís why they are stored in bags and preferably darkness to preserve life. I have about 80 spare tyres in my garage, many of which are special purpose and very expensive. The age and storage conditions are monitored closely. Get it wrong and you notice immediately the tyre is trash.
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Old 03.12.2020, 10:49
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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When I lived in NY, I remember everyone slithering around at a crawling pace on the freeway in their 4wd cars with 'all seasons'. I would charge past at 2 or 3 times the speed in my 2wd M5 on (wide - i.e. not ideal) winters with absolutely no loss of traction.

).
Irrespective of tyre type and one's driving skills, going 2-3x the speed of other vehicles on the road in inclement weather is, IMO, not a good idea. While as a rally driver your skills are well above the average driver, never underestimate the level of incompetence of the average driver!
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Old 03.12.2020, 10:55
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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It amazes me that anyone who has experienced both would ever consider an all season which is just the worst of both worlds.

If you’re seriously interested in understanding why I care so much about this and you are passing Ticino, let me know and I’m sure we can arrange a demonstration complete with stopwatches!
I cannot say that I am all that interested, but having driven in the northeast US for many years, where there was much more snow and colder temps then in the Basel area, the quality all-season tyres I had on my cars were more than fine for everyday driving throughout the year.

Again, high mountain passes that are not regularly plowed or salted are different but that was not part of my everyday driving. :-)
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Old 03.12.2020, 13:30
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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I cannot say that I am all that interested, but having driven in the northeast US for many years, where there was much more snow and colder temps then in the Basel area, the quality all-season tyres I had on my cars were more than fine for everyday driving throughout the year.

Again, high mountain passes that are not regularly plowed or salted are different but that was not part of my everyday driving. :-)
Exactly. I drove a sportscar in New England for years on performance tires, sometimes right after Northeaster and never had problems. As long as you realize the limitations and adjust your driving style to the weather you can drive on any tires as long as you have all wheel drive or front w.d. cars.
Rear wheel drive is a problem with any tires and electronics will not help either.
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  #60  
Old 03.12.2020, 13:35
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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Exactly. I drove a sportscar in New England for years on performance tires, sometimes right after Northeaster and never had problems. As long as you realize the limitations and adjust your driving style to the weather you can drive on any tires as long as you have all wheel drive or front w.d. cars.
Rear wheel drive is a problem with any tires and electronics will not help either.
For a larger car RWD works very well, the no of Audi A4 estates that got stuck & I passed in a BMW 328 estate always amassed me. Fresh All season or Winter plus LSD will work almost all the time. BMW's are hugely popular in CH so they must work in the climate.

Summer tyres & RWD is hopeless.
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