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  #81  
Old 04.12.2020, 13:00
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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it's not only snow and ice. below 7 degrees winter compound provides more grip even in the dry. (now I promise to never mention the subject again!)
This is the point, softer and more grippy rubber at colder temps. Not about snow depth in the road.

I guess the difference is there's some people that see driving as chore, while others enjoy the feeling of different tires.

I got my new car during winter, drove very carefully the first winter. Only 5 months later got the summer wheels mounted.....I was rapt by the grip, the linear relationship between the angle in the steering wheel and the noise they made. They were talking to me for the first time.

This is my second winter and I see the winter tires have also nice grip. Once nice hobby these days is driving precisely at the speed limit in country roads (60-80km/h) I know by heart close to my flat, don't even touch the brakes before a sharp turn, be gentle with the steering and see how electronic control save's the tailgater ass in my rear view mirror. Idiot tailgaters don't brake if you don't do it first, but a sporty car with grippy tires behaves completely different in a sharp turn than a econobox, even if you're only doing 50-60 km/h.
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  #82  
Old 04.12.2020, 13:08
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

Today is the perfect day to explain why they should be compusory.


This morning, it was raining and roads clear- so people driving down the valley, providing they took it easy, were fine. I just tried to go down, decades of experience on snow and with my winter tyres- roads not opened, and 30 cm or rutted wet snow, with the middle rut shared both ways. Some people obviously no clue whatsoever on how to drive on snow, and possibly not equipped with winter tyres, driving at 20km/h - and others losing patience and over taking like tw*ts. At the end of the flat part, turned round at the roundabout and returned home- just not worth it to go down steep, bendy road in such conditions and with idiots sharing it to boot. I wish the frontaliers were checked for winter tyres at the border, for sure.



And another exemple right here on EF- people who left a few days ago to go to the Valais, in perfectly dry, safe conditions- and now have to return home in dreadful conditions. You never ever know what will happen with the weather, even in a matter of hours.


50 years ago, on 22nd of December 1970 - my friend drove down to the valley to do last minute xmas shopping and gave me a lift home. Exactly same conditions as today- it was fine in the morning when she drove down to Neuch with her summer tyres- but after she picked me up, we drove up the bendy road up behind a foreign lorry that was not properly equipped, at 20 km/hr- all the way through the woods. Then my friend saw a straight bit where she could finally overtake- lost it on the rutted slushy snow, and wrapped the car around a tree, broke in half with me in the middle- several skull fractures and smashed knee and right femur. 4.5 months in traction, 7.5 months in hospital, my 21st BD and our wedding in hospital, and 2 years to learn to walk again and lifelong consequences. So sorry, I do feel strongly about being properly equipped for snow and ice.
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  #83  
Old 04.12.2020, 13:55
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

My Swiss neighbours have always cited the need for winter tyres between the O's - October and Ostern (Easter)

In our village at least, its strictly adhered to....but we do get a LOT of snow in the winters...AND the weather conditions can change in a heartbeat - in the morning roads are clear, weather is good, in an hour or two we can get a foot of snowfall and blizzard conditions.

I've pulled more cars out of snowdrifts than I can count - usually without winter tyres or with all weather tyres which just aren't up to the job. And the only accident we ever had, was stupidly driving up the mountain without winter tyres, relying solely on the 4WD gadgetry in our truck - we were bloody lucky that a whopping great tree caught the vehicle before it rolled many hundreds of metres down the mountainside.

I remember driving to the south of France a couple of years ago - there had been a rare dusting of snow along the Montpellier - Beziers section of the Med, and it was a mess - trucks jack knifed on the motorway, cars lying in ditches in the villages. Why? You could argue that south of France motorists aren't used to driving in light snow given it only happens every 7 years or so BUT we were watching conservative drivers who just couldn't get any traction for their tyres. In the meantime, we and a handful of other Swiss plated vehicles just scooted about on our winter tyres with no issues. It was crazy!


Last edited by smileygreebins; 04.12.2020 at 14:09.
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  #84  
Old 04.12.2020, 14:02
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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My Swiss neighbours have always cited the need for winter tyres between the O's - October and Ostern (Easter)

In our village at least, its strictly adhered to....but we do get a LOT of snow in the winters...

November -May (sometimes June) around here.

Tom
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Old 04.12.2020, 14:05
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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Today is the perfect day to explain why they should be compusory.
Brains should also be compulsory.

Weather is shit, I stay home, even though I have snow tires and several 4wd vehicles.

Tom
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  #86  
Old 04.12.2020, 14:07
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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November -May (sometimes June) around here.

Tom
Yep, we actually keep our winters on until June - too many times we've seen snow land in May, so now we just watch for when the farmers change their tyres AND put their geraniums in their window boxes.
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  #87  
Old 04.12.2020, 14:23
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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Brains should also be compulsory.

Weather is shit, I stay home, even though I have snow tires and several 4wd vehicles.

Tom

I certainly wish the did check that frontaliers are properly equipped. People who are not equipped and travel, including the 1000s of frontaliers who pass through here, should be checked regularly. They do have to travel to go to work.
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  #88  
Old 04.12.2020, 15:27
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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Newtoswitz- the point is, that you never know in Switzerland what will happen next. You can leave home to go to work or on a trip anywhere with over 7C and no snow- and find that it all changes as you go along, or when you have to return. People generally continue to drive to location or return- even if conditions have changed vastly in the meantime.
I just don't accept this - people need to take responsibility for their actions, and the temperature isn't so random that a reasonable defensive decision can't be taken based on the expected situation.

Where I am, winter tyres from mid-November to early April is the norm. In the mountains it is much longer, and in Lugano they may not be needed at all - there's no sensible way to make them mandatory based on anything other than the actual conditions.

It's the same principle as people getting fined for running out of fuel on a motorway - you could make spare fuel mandatory, or people can just not be a moron and think ahead.
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  #89  
Old 04.12.2020, 16:29
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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Where I am, winter tyres from mid-November to early April is the norm. In the mountains it is much longer, and in Lugano they may not be needed at all - there's no sensible way to make them mandatory based on anything other than the actual conditions.



exactly my point. We have had at least 30 cm today alone.
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  #90  
Old 04.12.2020, 17:05
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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No, it's not.

As already explained many times, causing an accident by driving in an unsafe manner (which may include not being properly equipped if that's tha cause) may have consequences, legal and financial; that's all.
Isn't "you must do it otherwise you may face legal and financial consequences" pretty much the definition of compulsory?

Anyway I don't want to split hairs - winter tyres should be used whenever needed for the conditions, including when there's a chance that those conditions may come, i.e. play it safe.
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  #91  
Old 04.12.2020, 17:15
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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and in Lugano they may not be needed at all
Please, beech!



Tom
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  #92  
Old 04.12.2020, 17:16
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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I certainly wish the did check that frontaliers are properly equipped. People who are not equipped and travel, including the 1000s of frontaliers who pass through here, should be checked regularly. They do have to travel to go to work.
70,000 around here, and all from the flatlands!

Tom
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  #93  
Old 04.12.2020, 17:35
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

there is a long queue out there now, driving home at 5km per hour! I can just about see the road from my armchair.
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Old 04.12.2020, 17:40
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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Isn't "you must do it otherwise you may face legal and financial consequences" pretty much the definition of compulsory?
.
No. And you missed out the most important bits anyway, the stuff about causing an accident. If you don't there is zero possibility of any legal consequence.

I'm not suggesting for e second that you shouldn't fit winter tires, but the whole point of the thread was to establish the legal framework, and stating that winter tiyes are compulsory is just plain wrong.
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Old 04.12.2020, 17:54
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

... putting everyone at risk- not just those who drive without. Kids and elderly crossing the road, and other road users. Driving without witner tyres in conditions like today is just criminal, punkt schluss.
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Old 04.12.2020, 17:56
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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... putting everyone at risk- not just those who drive without. Kids and elderly crossing the road, and other road users. Driving without witner tyres in conditions like today is just criminal, punkt schluss.
I thought the elderly were supposed to stay at home
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Old 04.12.2020, 18:11
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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No. And you missed out the most important bits anyway, the stuff about causing an accident. If you don't there is zero possibility of any legal consequence.
OK, although that applies to anything - if you don't get caught, there are no consequences.

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... putting everyone at risk- not just those who drive without. Kids and elderly crossing the road, and other road users. Driving without witner tyres in conditions like today is just criminal, punkt schluss.
I thought your point was that it isn't criminal but you think it should be?
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Old 04.12.2020, 18:18
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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... putting everyone at risk- not just those who drive without. Kids and elderly crossing the road, and other road users. Driving without witner tyres in conditions like today is just criminal, punkt schluss.
It may be stupid, but hardly criminal.

Tom

P.S. My wife went driving today, I did not.

Last edited by st2lemans; 04.12.2020 at 19:14.
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Old 04.12.2020, 18:44
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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It may be stupid, but hardly criminal.

it is when it kills and maims people. Just as if you drink drive ...
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Old 04.12.2020, 19:19
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Re: What are the rules about winter tyres and snow chains in Switzerland?

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It may be stupid, but hardly criminal.
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it is when it kills and maims people. Just as if you drink drive ...
I understand that you, like I, feel strongly about this, but it's not remotely comparable. Drink driving is something you have absolute control over - and as such is understandably illegal at any time or place - the weather is not.

There are certainly cases where I've been caught out by early or late snow on the wrong tyres, and I'm sure it happens to most people who regularly drive in the mountains in spring and autumn, and the answer is to proceed with appropriate caution.

Trying to convince people that it's illegal just because you think it should be doesn't really help the argument.

There's quite a lot of things that I might like to make illegal, and quite a lot, probably more, that I think should not be, but we have to work within the scope of the law as it stands.
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