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  #21  
Old 26.01.2021, 08:56
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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Dear OP, please don't visit the German speaking part of the country by car.
I donít plan to do that but just out of curiosity why ?
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  #22  
Old 26.01.2021, 09:10
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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I donít plan to do that but just out of curiosity why ?
Read your own posts
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  #23  
Old 26.01.2021, 09:11
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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Winter wheels - no obligation, costs to be borne by me in case of accidents.
Whether that's true or not is beyond the point I will make now: in case you were involved in a very serious accident (e.g. fate forbid someone getting seriously injured or die), whether you were found guilty or not at all, this could be a MAJOR burden over something not worth the risk. YMMV. My humble and unsolicited advice is: put winter tires on your car. Not just for other people, it's also safer for you and your car.
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  #24  
Old 26.01.2021, 09:16
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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Whether that's true or not is beyond the point I will make now: in case you were involved in a very serious accident (e.g. fate forbid someone getting seriously injured or die), whether you were found guilty or not at all, this could be a MAJOR burden over something not worth the risk. YMMV. My humble and unsolicited advice is: put winter tires on your car. Not just for other people, it's also safer for you and your car.
Roger that. Iíve been following a similar advice given to me when I arrived in Switzerland for the past 6 years. This year was an exception where due to corona the driving was limited and I decided not to take the pain of changing but I will change the wheels.
Still my question remains unanswered - am I required by law to reduce speeds below speed limit on an empty road with nobody 500m ahead or behind me and by how much.
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  #25  
Old 26.01.2021, 09:56
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

Summer tires donít grip as well when it gets below +6 even without snow. Winter tyres are a must in this country.
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Old 26.01.2021, 10:08
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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Still my question remains unanswered - am I required by law to reduce speeds below speed limit on an empty road with nobody 500m ahead or behind me and by how much.
No.

One of the problems with these discussions is that many people will use terms such as 'should' or even 'must' to express their personal opinions about good driving practices. Winter tyres are a great divisor, not because there are many people who don't think they're a good idea, but that we get a whole raft of posts saying that you "must" have them - oh look, there's another one just before this post.

There are many factors which, in the event of an accident, may allow the police to prosecute your for dangerous/careless driving, including things like driving too fast for the conditions, driving without suitable equipment, driving a vehicle in a dangerous condition, etc. etc. In many cases you would be very unlikely to be prosecuted except after an accident, indeed, the example of going too fast for the conditions but below the posted limit is almost impossible to judge except when you hit something

For many of these there's no specific law defining what is and is not allowed, but the lack of a defined rule for any given situation doesn't mean there is not need to do anything.
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  #27  
Old 26.01.2021, 10:32
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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No.

One of the problems with these discussions is that many people will use terms such as 'should' or even 'must' to express their personal opinions about good driving practices. Winter tyres are a great divisor, not because there are many people who don't think they're a good idea, but that we get a whole raft of posts saying that you "must" have them - oh look, there's another one just before this post.

There are many factors which, in the event of an accident, may allow the police to prosecute your for dangerous/careless driving, including things like driving too fast for the conditions, driving without suitable equipment, driving a vehicle in a dangerous condition, etc. etc. In many cases you would be very unlikely to be prosecuted except after an accident, indeed, the example of going too fast for the conditions but below the posted limit is almost impossible to judge except when you hit something

For many of these there's no specific law defining what is and is not allowed, but the lack of a defined rule for any given situation doesn't mean there is not need to do anything.

I couldn't agree more! We all have our own opinions on what's safe for a given condition and rules are (in my opinion) made to take this "personal judgement" out of the equation so there's no scope for guessing otherwise it's very likely that someone may start driving at 50kmph on the motorway since it's drizzling while the other person finds it perfectly safe to drive at 150 in the same conditions.

That's what temporary speed reductions are for e.g. in Germany there are clear indicators of 100 bei nšsse - in case of wet conditions which I've never seen in Switzerland.

I see a lot of people suggesting what may happen in case if I'd have an accident avoiding the whole point of the post - guy gets flashed twice, by static motorway cameras while being under the maximum allowed speed limits with no posted speed reductions.

I'll wait for the tickets (hoping they never come) and in any case I'll drive 110 kmph from now on so if one of those days anyone is behind me please don't get pissed off that I'm driving too slow
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  #28  
Old 26.01.2021, 10:36
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

If the limit is 120, what is the legal limit if it rains or it is snowing, but the road isn't covered yet in snow?

Also, is it me or Google Maps hides Speed Limits when I'm driving in Switzerland, and once I cross the border those start to appear?
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  #29  
Old 26.01.2021, 10:40
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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If the limit is 120, what is the legal limit if it rains or it is snowing, but the road isn't covered yet in snow?
Err, 120.

If it's bone dry the limit is 120, if it's raining, snowing or even completely covered by black ice the limit is still 120.
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  #30  
Old 26.01.2021, 10:41
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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Winter tyres are a must in this country.
That's your personal opinion which you're free to have and follow. As far as the law goes here's what ch.ch says:

https://www.ch.ch/en/winter-tyres/

"In Switzerland, there is no legal obligation to fit your vehicle with winter tyres."
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  #31  
Old 26.01.2021, 10:45
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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I see a lot of people suggesting what may happen in case if I'd have an accident avoiding the whole point of the post - guy gets flashed twice, by static motorway cameras while being under the maximum allowed speed limits with no posted speed reductions.
I think it's pretty clear that either you (or your semi-autonomous car) failed to see a reduced speed area or that the flashes were not for you. It's quite easy for falling snow or rain to interfere with a speed sensor, so it's the most likely explanation IMO.

Having said that, I think that relying on your car to detect and slow down for reduced limits is, err, let's just say "unwise" lest I be accused of insulting behaviour
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  #32  
Old 26.01.2021, 10:56
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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I think it's pretty clear that either you (or your semi-autonomous car) failed to see a reduced speed
It had to be both me and the car who'd have to miss it for this to happen and i'm not denying the possibility entirely.

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I think that relying on your car to detect and slow down for reduced limits is, err, let's just say "unwise" lest I be accused of insulting behavior
An opinion which I'd certainly take into consideration even though over the span of 300k KMs in the past 4 years the feature has never failed me (previous car had the same).
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  #33  
Old 26.01.2021, 10:57
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

Ace1's post is a nice summary to end this thread on before it before it becomes another winter vs summer tires discussion!
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  #34  
Old 26.01.2021, 12:13
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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Roger that. I’ve been following a similar advice given to me when I arrived in Switzerland for the past 6 years. This year was an exception where due to corona the driving was limited and I decided not to take the pain of changing but I will change the wheels.
Still my question remains unanswered - am I required by law to reduce speeds below speed limit on an empty road with nobody 500m ahead or behind me and by how much.
Pain? Tire hotels or whatever they're called. I pay 90 CHF because I go to the dealership, but it's possible to get the storage and change of tires for less.....unless pain is in the context of 1st world problems
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Old 26.01.2021, 16:05
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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If the limit is 120, what is the legal limit if it rains or it is snowing, but the road isn't covered yet in snow?

Also, is it me or Google Maps hides Speed Limits when I'm driving in Switzerland, and once I cross the border those start to appear?

I think it's only France that has a lower (and usually unposted) speed limit for bad weather. Other countries can of course have it if it's posted. Switzerland disallows navigation systems with speed camera warnings and I suspect that's the reason why google maps might not show the speed limit.
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  #36  
Old 26.01.2021, 16:27
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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I think it's only France that has a lower (and usually unposted) speed limit for bad weather. Other countries can of course have it if it's posted. Switzerland disallows navigation systems with speed camera warnings and I suspect that's the reason why google maps might not show the speed limit.
That's not quite the same thing though. Our car shows speed limits in both countries, though it won't show speed camera warnings in Switzerland. The TomTom we use for long distance travel will bleep at us when we go over speed limits and will also show "danger zones" where a speed camera might be in France.
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Old 26.01.2021, 16:30
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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I think it's only France that has a lower (and usually unposted) speed limit for bad weather.
It's posted as you cross the border, and sometimes when entering a Pťage autoroute section, where the normal 130/120 limit is shown as 110/100 in the rain. As it's a standard that applies by default there's no need to post it specifically, just like the default 120/90/50 limits aren't usually posted in CH.

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Switzerland disallows navigation systems with speed camera warnings and I suspect that's the reason why google maps might not show the speed limit.
I don't think google maps show the limit in France, either. Similarly radar-warnings are illegal there too. (Not that this will ever stop people using apps like CamSam for this purpose).

If I'm in less familiar territory I often use a different navigation app that allows me to show the current limit (based on the map, not roadsigns) together with the actual recorded speed, and highlight it if you're exceeding it. I think this should be available by default, but instead most cars make it almost impossible to show the GPS-based speed at all. Doesn't make any sense to me to deny a driver this additional safety information.
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  #38  
Old 26.01.2021, 16:34
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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Wherever you're driving, the speed limit is a maximum allowed, but only for as long as the road conditions allow it.
This.

I had recently a problem following my navigation instructions and onboard assistants (not a Mercedes, but also a car with street signs recognition). Neither me nor the car noticed temporary changes lowering the usual speed limit: the 80 sign was simply crossed with a tape, so the limit remained 60 there. Luckily I was flashed at just 64 km/h. Later found that sign crossed after examining the front DVR records. And the wet snow was certainly lowering the camera's AI abilities to recognize it.
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  #39  
Old 26.01.2021, 16:44
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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I think it's only France that has a lower (and usually unposted) speed limit for bad weather. Other countries can of course have it if it's posted. Switzerland disallows navigation systems with speed camera warnings and I suspect that's the reason why google maps might not show the speed limit.
Then what about newer cars that recognize the speed limit from the road signs, is that permitted? I've rented such a car in Switzerland and that feature worked, it would recognize and adjust the speed limit when using cruise control.
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Old 26.01.2021, 16:50
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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Then what about newer cars that recognize the speed limit from the road signs, is that permitted? I've rented such a car in Switzerland and that feature worked, it would recognize and adjust the speed limit when using cruise control.
This is allowed, as is speed limit knowledge in the GPS system, my car has both and it works really well (as a speed limiter, not cruise control which is a separate setting).

Only camera positions and warnings are disallowed.

https://www.astra.admin.ch/astra/de/...-id-10094.html

Last edited by newtoswitz; 26.01.2021 at 17:12. Reason: Added link to media release
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