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Old 25.01.2021, 22:00
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Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

Dear forum members,

Hope youíre all doing well.
A little context - Been driving in Switzerland for the past 6 years and never ever been flashed however all this changed last week; got flashed twice in the past 2 weeks. Before we jump onto any conclusions some details below
1st instance - 17th Jan Near Aubonne direction Lausanne - Speed 122km/h
2nd instance - 25th Jan before Gland direction GenŤve - Speed 120km/h
On both classions the car was on autopilot so Iím 100% sure of the speeds and it also takes care of increasing and decreasing speeds according to speed signs so we can negate any temporary 80/100 zones as well.

The only thing worth noticing is that on both these occasions it was snowing lightly.

Since Iím doing this route almost every weekend as you can imagine itís a bit scary now to know that I canít even do 120

My question - are these just random flashes? If not then how can one prove that I was within limits ?
Are there any implicit speed restrictions in snowy conditions on motorways that Iím completely oblivious about ?

PS: Iíve just had a new car for 3 months and even though itís very very unlikely but maybe the speedometer is not well calibrated
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  #2  
Old 25.01.2021, 22:02
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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PS: Iíve just had a new car for 3 months and even though itís very very unlikely but maybe the speedometer is not well calibrated
Why not test it using a GPS app on your phone?
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Old 25.01.2021, 22:05
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

Speedos are usually out a bit, but maybe if it was snowing your auto pilot missed any changes to the speed limit because of that.

Other possibility is it wasn't flashing you, but a car behind you.
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Old 25.01.2021, 22:06
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

Have you actually gotten a fine?

If not, then what's the problem?

Tom
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Old 25.01.2021, 22:09
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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Speedos are usually out a bit.
And they always read high.

Tom
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Old 25.01.2021, 22:29
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Speedos are usually out a bit, but maybe if it was snowing your auto pilot missed any changes to the speed limit because of that.
I wasnít so sure about the first instance but tonight Iím 100% sure there was no temporary speed limitation.

Quote:

Other possibility is it wasn't flashing you, but a car behind you.

Same, the first time I thought it was the car next to me but tonight there was no car at least 500m behind or ahead of me.

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Have you actually gotten a fine?

If not, then what's the problem?

Tom
I havenít yet. The problem is Iím driving this route so often and not being sure if Iíll get flashed at 120 is not comfortable Certainly ruins the mood for the weekend trips.
Jokes apart - I just want to know if thereís actually a problem with the speedometer configuration so that I can get it fixed.
Although I wonder since itís a new car and if thereís indeed a problem would Mercedes pay my tickets (I.e. if I ever get them)

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Why not test it using a GPS app on your phone?
I plan on trying it the next time.

Last edited by roegner; 25.01.2021 at 22:41. Reason: Merging posts
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Old 26.01.2021, 00:00
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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On both classions the car was on autopilot so I’m 100% sure of the speeds and it also takes care of increasing and decreasing speeds according to speed signs so we can negate any temporary 80/100 zones as well.
Usually adaptive cruise control takes 2-3 seconds to recognize a speed limit change. In theory you when you pass by an 80 km/h sign you should be going at 80 km/km, not slowing down from 100 or 120 km/h. If the police placed the cameras just a few meters after the speed limit change, the car may not be reducing the speed fast enough.

PS. winter tires, are they the recommended size? Otherwise the speedometer is useless.

Last edited by Axa; 26.01.2021 at 00:13. Reason: typo
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Old 26.01.2021, 00:48
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

check if your speed is correct, don't trust the car completely. Detection is sometimes bad and adaptation is not instant even if detected.

A radar can be wrongly set or do flashes even if you're in the green after they deduct the tolerance, so you don't necessarily get a fine.
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Old 26.01.2021, 01:00
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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The only thing worth noticing is that on both these occasions it was snowing lightly.
...
Are there any implicit speed restrictions in snowy conditions on motorways that I’m completely oblivious about ?
Wherever you're driving, the speed limit is a maximum allowed, but only for as long as the road conditions allow it. Whenever any factor makes the conditions less-than-ideal, the driver is expected to adjust the speed downwards, appropriately. That means if it is raining or snowing or foggy or at night, because visibility is lower. And if the roads are wet or slippery because of rain, snow or ice, or because of an oil spill, or objects fallen from a lorry, etc., because the traction is reduced.

So yes, quite naturally, it is not permitted to drive at a speed up towards (let alone over!) the full limit of the maximum permitted speed, whenever conditions prevail which impair visibility or grip on the road. Snow does both. Therefore a driver needs to reduce the speed to compensate for the longer reaction time (his/her own, and that of all other drivers) needed to deal with these less-than-perfect conditions.
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Old 26.01.2021, 07:34
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

What is the car and what kind of technology it has?

Check to see if the speedo is correct and how cruise control works. Also you can set it to 115 kmh (-5 under the current speed limit) so you can be conservative. It wont make a difference in time taken to reach a destination really.
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Old 26.01.2021, 07:53
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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On both classions the car was on autopilot so Iím 100% sure of the speeds and it also takes care of increasing and decreasing speeds according to speed signs so we can negate any temporary 80/100 zones as well.
Eek, your car actually changes speed up or down automatically for road signs? I really wouldn't like that as it takes the control away and sometimes there are temporary road signs that confuse computers.

My car shows the road sign speed and gives me a beep if I am going too fast, but it doesn't change the speed automatically unless I am following a car in front of me. Much better that way imo.
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Old 26.01.2021, 08:16
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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Usually adaptive cruise control takes 2-3 seconds to recognize a speed limit change. In theory you when you pass by an 80 km/h sign you should be going at 80 km/km, not slowing down from 100 or 120 km/h. If the police placed the cameras just a few meters after the speed limit change, the car may not be reducing the speed fast enough.

PS. winter tires, are they the recommended size? Otherwise the speedometer is useless.
I agree about the latency of the autopilot but in this case there was no speed reduction happening and neither was there any temporary speed reduction sign, I was cruising at constant 120 km/h for the past 15 minutes and actually after the flash too.

Winter wheels is a good point - actually I donít have winter wheels, considering thereís barely any snow on motorways I thought the 4x4 would be okay. Can this alter the speed ?
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Old 26.01.2021, 08:19
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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Wherever you're driving, the speed limit is a maximum allowed, but only for as long as the road conditions allow it. Whenever any factor makes the conditions less-than-ideal, the driver is expected to adjust the speed downwards, appropriately. That means if it is raining or snowing or foggy or at night, because visibility is lower. And if the roads are wet or slippery because of rain, snow or ice, or because of an oil spill, or objects fallen from a lorry, etc., because the traction is reduced.

So yes, quite naturally, it is not permitted to drive at a speed up towards (let alone over!) the full limit of the maximum permitted speed, whenever conditions prevail which impair visibility or grip on the road. Snow does both. Therefore a driver needs to reduce the speed to compensate for the longer reaction time (his/her own, and that of all other drivers) needed to deal with these less-than-perfect conditions.
What youíre saying seems perfectly alight but I searched a lot and didnít find any official instructions saying that Iím obliged to do that or Iíll get flashed and then again should I reduce my speed by 5, 10 or 20 ? Thereís no clear guideline that I could find, do you have a link I should read ?
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Old 26.01.2021, 08:20
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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What is the car and what kind of technology it has?

Check to see if the speedo is correct and how cruise control works. Also you can set it to 115 kmh (-5 under the current speed limit) so you can be conservative. It wont make a difference in time taken to reach a destination really.
Itís a Merc GLE and it has this autopilot feature which takes care of the steering inputs, reducing and increasing the speeds according to road signs and of course according to the vehicle in front.
Iíll check the Speedo through GPS next time.
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Old 26.01.2021, 08:23
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

On that bit of the A1 they are slowly replacing the Cameras with newer digital ones. I’ve heard a rumour that the tolerance has been reduced to 2 kph. Also all the fixed cameras along that stretch point in both directions, perhaps they were flashing the opposing lanes.

But I wouldn’t worry until you get something in the mail.

My spedo reads 124 when I’m actually doing 120.

Also, these cameras don’t use radar they rely on sensors in the road, you can actually see them (on a clear day).
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Old 26.01.2021, 08:25
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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Eek, your car actually changes speed up or down automatically for road signs? I really wouldn't like that as it takes the control away and sometimes there are temporary road signs that confuse computers.

My car shows the road sign speed and gives me a beep if I am going too fast, but it doesn't change the speed automatically unless I am following a car in front of me. Much better that way imo.
Matter of preference I guess. I prefer to let the car do it however that doesnít mean I canít adapt the speed myself in case if there are road signs she couldnít/didnít recognize.
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Old 26.01.2021, 08:35
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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I was cruising at constant 120 km/h for the past 15 minutes and actually after the flash too.

Winter wheels is a good point - actually I don’t have winter wheels,
So just to be sure your position is clear:
you're driving at 120 km/h in snowy conditions which can cause slipping and which can impede visibility, without winter tyres, and even after having been
flashed, you still continued to drive at that speed?
And your concern is...
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how can one prove that I was within limits ?
Are there any implicit speed restrictions in snowy conditions on motorways that I’m completely oblivious about ?
and
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I searched a lot and didn’t find any official instructions saying that I’m obliged to do that .... There’s no clear guideline that I could find,...

I think that you cannot find what you're looking for because you're preferring to look for a nice rule that will exonerate you from having been flashed, instead of reading any Chapter One for learning how to drive. A central part of being a competent driver is upholding the overriding principle that a driver must responsibly maintain control of his/her car, which necessarily includes adjusting the way he/she drives in relation to the current conditions on the road.

Winter tyres
https://www.ch.ch/en/winter-tyres/

Proper Control of the Vehicle
https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1.../lvl_d2440e106 (in German)
https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1.../lvl_d2440e106 (in French)

Speed
https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1.../lvl_d2440e108 (in German)
https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1.../lvl_d2440e108 (in French)

Last edited by doropfiz; 26.01.2021 at 08:45.
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Old 26.01.2021, 08:45
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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Certainly ruins the mood for the weekend trips.
It has happened to me at least twice, that I was flashed (certainly not speeding) and never got a fine. It could be a random system reset or heaven-knows-what.

On the other hand, don't let that ruin a weekend trip. A very small violation of speed limit on the highway (e.g. 1-5km/h over the limit) would be a rather small fine, around Fr. 40-something. Not worth ruining an otherwise perfectly good weekend.
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Old 26.01.2021, 08:48
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

Dear OP, please don't visit the German speaking part of the country by car.
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Old 26.01.2021, 08:54
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Re: Flashed under the limit, twice in 2 weeks

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So just to be sure your position is clear:
you're driving at 120 km/h in snowy conditions which can cause slipping and which can impede visibility, without winter tyres, and even after having been
flashed, you still continued to drive at that speed?
Yes that’s correct because from my understanding I’m still under the maximum allowed speed limit and from what I know winter wheels are not obligatory in Switzerland. Also while I continued driving at 120 the next speed cams there was no flash. What changed the snow was a bit less.

Quote:
I think that you cannot find what you're looking for because you're preferring to look for a nice rule that will exonerate you from having been flashed, instead of reading any Chapter One for learning how to drive. A central part of being a competent driver is upholding the overriding principle that a driver must responsibly maintain control of his/her car, adjusting the way he/she drives in relation to the current conditions on the road.
I’m sorry but that sounds a bit presumptuous on your part and definitely not helpful. The reason why I wrote this post at the first place is if all of you fellow drivers can point me to any rules that state by how much I should reduce speeds and in what conditions and not to exonerate myself from a few 40CHF fines which can’t be done on this forum anyway
Please don’t get me wrong, I’m keen on knowing - how to avoid it in future instead of finding excuses.
As for the driving 101, I mentioned that I’ve been driving for 6 years in Switzerland and 19 in total and ZERO traffic infractions in Switzerland, yes ZERO so I’m hoping you’d cut me a bit of slack and assume I’m a competent driver.
Read the links :

Winter wheels - no obligation, costs to be borne by me in case of accidents. There was no accident.
Speed - According to circumstances but by how much is my question.
Speed might be reduced - agreed but then there must be a sign right ?
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