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Old 26.01.2021, 22:54
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Yielding to oncoming left-turners? I keep getting flashed at..

I've been extremely slow on the uptake with this. Drivers behind me are sending me a message that I'm doing something wrong or rude, by flashing their brights at me.

The situation, generally, is that of yielding to oncoming left-turners. What official rules are there?

In the US of course you can sit and sit waiting for an opportunity to turn left, and it's just tough luck. If it's a multi lane crossing (and these are pretty common in the US) it would actually be dangerous to have people yield to you.

Anyway today I successfully yielded to a left-turner who was turning from a single oncoming lane and therefore had a pileup of cars (perhaps many of whom intending to go straight) behind them. But then a bit later I had the situation where there was no pileup and I still got flashed. It would seem there is actually a strict rule.

I can't figure out how Rechtsvortritt would extend to these cases but maybe.

Have I somehow overcomplicated this? I have gotten flashed many times and the situation hasn't resolved with mere intuition on my part (which admittedly may be a bit sluggish), so I need to consciously figure out what the heck the rule is and get it drilled into my brain
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Old 26.01.2021, 22:58
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Re: Yielding to oncoming left-turners? I keep getting flashed at..

My understanding is that the vehicle on your right has priority.
A single flash can mean they are telling you to take the turn. Usually multiple flashes indicate annoyance.
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Old 26.01.2021, 23:04
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Re: Yielding to oncoming left-turners? I keep getting flashed at..

Does vehicle on your right wrap around to the oncoming lane? (2nd to your right / counterclockwise, in some sense)

Here's an example: I'm on the marker and heading north, and get flashed for not yielding to a southbound left turner. The person who flashed me yields to said left turner who then makes their turn

Gesetzte Markierung
In der Nähe von Seetalstrasse 67, 5703 Seon
https://maps.app.goo.gl/51KwrwUTMpKyJnw76
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Old 26.01.2021, 23:08
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Re: Yielding to oncoming left-turners? I keep getting flashed at..

It also happens a lot here going southbound.

Gesetzte Markierung
In der Nähe von Lenzburgerstrasse 3, 5703 Seon
https://maps.app.goo.gl/2zXV1XUw9VcnEk1c6

In both these cases sometimes it makes some sense to yield, because the left-turner has a big pileup behind them.

But I think I'm also getting flashed when there is no pileup
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Old 27.01.2021, 00:38
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Re: Yielding to oncoming left-turners? I keep getting flashed at..

You mean you are letting vehicles coming in the opposite direction making a left turn pass in front of you, although you have the right of way?

Or are you letting people out of a side road on the left turn in front of you to travel in your direction in front of you?

Either way, you are asking for trouble. If the driver behind doesn't rear-end you, motorcycle or bicycles will pass on your inside and hit the vehicle you are letting cross your pass.

The clue is the flashing...
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Old 27.01.2021, 00:45
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Re: Yielding to oncoming left-turners? I keep getting flashed at..

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motorcycle or bicycles will pass on your inside and hit the vehicle you are letting cross your pass.
Both of which are illegal, and tbh I've never had a motorcycle do that they usually squeeze down the outside.

Depends on the situation - if you're in slow moving traffic it makes sense to let people cross, otherwise everything gets snarled up and nobody moves.

But if you're just stopping in free flowing traffic to let people cross - don't.
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Old 27.01.2021, 01:27
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Re: Yielding to oncoming left-turners? I keep getting flashed at..

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Anyway today I successfully yielded to a left-turner who was turning from a single oncoming lane and therefore had a pileup of cars (perhaps many of whom intending to go straight) behind them. But then a bit later I had the situation where there was no pileup and I still got flashed. It would seem there is actually a strict rule.
I do that regularly to let the bus turn left and pass in front of me....because the bus has a pile of cars behind it. After 1 year and some months with the car, only one person has flashed the brights for letting pass the bus. Sorry for your quest of a simple rule, it seems there are acceptable exceptions
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Old 27.01.2021, 03:17
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Re: Yielding to oncoming left-turners? I keep getting flashed at..

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But if you're just stopping in free-flowing traffic to let people cross - don't.
In other words, don't kill me with kindness...
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Old 27.01.2021, 05:09
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Re: Yielding to oncoming left-turners? I keep getting flashed at..

I didn't explain too well-- I'm always getting flashed for *not* yielding. For *not* stopping in free flowing traffic. The person who flashed me is behind me and *does* yield. And I'm talking about only the situation of letting an oncoming (headon) car turn left in front of me; as in, we are on the same road and they are turning onto a side road. The map links I posted should clarify.
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Old 27.01.2021, 05:33
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Re: Yielding to oncoming left-turners? I keep getting flashed at..

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Depends on the situation - if you're in slow moving traffic it makes sense to let people cross, otherwise everything gets snarled up and nobody moves.

But if you're just stopping in free flowing traffic to let people cross - don't.
I think it must be this, and I'm calibrated to the US where it's like, never "yield," but don't *block* the left turners if traffic is at a complete standstill.

Whereas here it seems in that "slow moving" can mean even a very mild slowdown or congestion.

As in, if it won't get you to your destination faster to *not* yield, then err on the side of yielding.

It could be that these particular spots are very sensitive to congestion and getting "snarled up" as you say, and therefore the locals who have been driving here for years and years have figured out that one needs to yield often and easily to left turners in these spots in order to prevent cascading/snowballing congestion
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Old 27.01.2021, 06:15
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Re: Yielding to oncoming left-turners? I keep getting flashed at..

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I didn't explain too well-- I'm always getting flashed for *not* yielding. For *not* stopping in free flowing traffic. The person who flashed me is behind me and *does* yield. And I'm talking about only the situation of letting an oncoming (headon) car turn left in front of me; as in, we are on the same road and they are turning onto a side road. The map links I posted should clarify.
Are you sure they are flashing you? Are they not flashing the on coming car to say “on you go mate”??
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Old 27.01.2021, 07:23
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Re: Yielding to oncoming left-turners? I keep getting flashed at..

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Are you sure they are flashing you? Are they not flashing the on coming car to say “on you go mate”??
Omg my mind is blown. I had not come anywhere near to thinking of that.

Are the brights used in that way here / in Europe? In the US we just gesture spastically from inside the car and hope they see. At least for me anyways. And then flashing brights == "turn off your brights idiot!" and only that precise usage and none other. If someone has their lights off at night I will blink off and on my lowbeams. For a friendly "getting someone's attention" I'd use a super short beep of the horn.
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Old 27.01.2021, 08:27
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Re: Yielding to oncoming left-turners? I keep getting flashed at..

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Omg my mind is blown. I had not come anywhere near to thinking of that.

Are the brights used in that way here / in Europe? In the US we just gesture spastically from inside the car and hope they see. At least for me anyways. And then flashing brights == "turn off your brights idiot!" and only that precise usage and none other. If someone has their lights off at night I will blink off and on my lowbeams. For a friendly "getting someone's attention" I'd use a super short beep of the horn.
That’s exactly what we do here in Europe, a brief flash of the headlights to indicate that we are letting them pass so the drivers behind aren’t flashing you but rather the car waiting to turn.
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Old 27.01.2021, 09:03
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Re: Yielding to oncoming left-turners? I keep getting flashed at..

Are Americans allowed to convert their driving licences? I assumed they were in the same category as Russians, needing to take a test here.
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Old 27.01.2021, 09:23
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Re: Yielding to oncoming left-turners? I keep getting flashed at..

As a cyclist, I often have the problem where I am riding in the bicycle lane, and the car just ahead (in slow traffic) yields to a left turner. The car yielding usually blocks line of site between the left turner and me, resulting in a many near collisions.
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Old 27.01.2021, 09:25
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Re: Yielding to oncoming left-turners? I keep getting flashed at..

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Are Americans allowed to convert their driving licences? I assumed they were in the same category as Russians, needing to take a test here.
No need for a test.

Tom
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Old 27.01.2021, 09:25
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Re: Yielding to oncoming left-turners? I keep getting flashed at..

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That’s exactly what we do here in Europe, a brief flash of the headlights to indicate that we are letting them pass so the drivers behind aren’t flashing you but rather the car waiting to turn.
Is that more of a Swiss-French thing?

I know they do it in the U.K. but I've never seen it done on the German-side, or indeed in Germany.
Here, flashing their lights means only one thing, "Get out of my way schnell so I can pass you in my Panzerwagen!"
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Old 27.01.2021, 09:40
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Re: Yielding to oncoming left-turners? I keep getting flashed at..

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Is that more of a Swiss-French thing?

I know they do it in the U.K. but I've never seen it done on the German-side, or indeed in Germany.
Here, flashing their lights means only one thing, "Get out of my way schnell so I can pass you in my Panzerwagen!"
I have no idea. It is certainly the norm around here and was when we lived in Belgium.
I’m pretty sure they did it in Germany when we lived there too but that’s going back a good few years now so not 100% certain on that.
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Old 27.01.2021, 09:45
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Re: Yielding to oncoming left-turners? I keep getting flashed at..

It's normal down here and in Italy as well.

Tom
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Old 27.01.2021, 09:53
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Re: Yielding to oncoming left-turners? I keep getting flashed at..

Here in the German-speaking part, it's common too.
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