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  #81  
Old 26.03.2021, 19:35
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

I suppose if you are held at fault you want to get a good deal on the car and that's why you want to rush the sale on.
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  #82  
Old 26.03.2021, 19:42
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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I suppose if you are held at fault you want to get a good deal on the car and that's why you want to rush the sale on.
Surely being at fault only effects your future premium (in no bonus protection), the insurance have to pay out their idea of market value, that is usually very high in CH, certainly for the cars I drove & ever had a 3rd party claim. (2 in 20 years). The other paid out more than I thought the car was worth to replace the bumper & paint a tiny scratch, I used some gaffer tape & kept the 2k, then passed the MFK 1 year later.
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  #83  
Old 26.03.2021, 19:51
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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Surely being at fault only effects your future premium (in no bonus protection), the insurance have to pay out their idea of market value
I feel sure OP only has third-party insurance - that means they'll pay for third-party damage not his. He'd end-up with a wrecked car that he needs to dispose of.
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  #84  
Old 26.03.2021, 19:53
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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I feel sure OP only has third-party insurance - that means they'll pay for third-party damage not his. He'd end-up with a wrecked car that he needs to dispose of.
Good reason to keep full collision.
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  #85  
Old 26.03.2021, 19:58
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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Good reason to keep full collision.
Depends on your driver record, I drove a Porsche 911 from age 21, the premium savings over the next 38 years are many tens of thousands, when invested hundreds of thousands.
Insurance on average must be a bad deal due to 1) administrative expenses 2) garages charge far more for 'an insurance job' 3) Fraudulent customers.

We do see people that believe insurance is an ATM machine, till they get refused cover.
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Old 26.03.2021, 20:00
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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Depends on your driver record, I drove a Porsche 911 from age 21, the premium savings over the next 38 years are many tens of thousands, when invested hundreds of thousands.
Insurance on average must be a bad deal due to 1) administrative expenses 2) garages charge far more for 'an insurance job' 3) Fraudulent customers.

We do see people that believe insurance is an ATM machine, till they get refused cover.
But one sleeps better at night.
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  #87  
Old 26.03.2021, 20:08
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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But one sleeps better at night.
Depends on how much you spend on cars, even at 21 with a Porsche 911 the deal was very poor. I guess it's about living within your means, I have never owned a new car, the youngest car of 3 I own being 11 years old & worth about a months expenditure, probably less.

If you lease a 90k car with a 120k salary thats a different proposition.

I don't insure my stock market portfolio or hedge currencies where the daily movement easily exceeds the value of not just 1 car but all 3.
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  #88  
Old 26.03.2021, 20:14
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

I would not keep a car repaired after such damage, the insurance ran an auction where I could sell it. Unlike other jurisdictions where the insurer takes ownership of the wreck, here they determine it's "fair value", pay whatever delta, and you're left to deal with the metal. My interest is to dispose of it in their auction with minimum fuss, and then wait patiently for the fault attribution to come through.

The 3rd party insurer is still a counterparty for the Swiss insurer in the process, and there is no verdict yet. It's plain wrong to me that out of 4 partner companies, the very same insurer got involved. As a commercial organization, they will work towards minimizing their financial liability.
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  #89  
Old 26.03.2021, 20:20
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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The 3rd party insurer is still a counterparty for the Swiss insurer in the process, and there is no verdict yet. It's plain wrong to me that out of 4 partner companies, the very same insurer got involved. As a commercial organization, they will work towards minimizing their financial liability.
Obviously, they know the cars market value, they sell the salvage & lose the difference.

What do you suggest they should do differently? They have to dispose of 100's of cars a week, they do it the way that gives them the highest return or smallest loss.
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  #90  
Old 26.03.2021, 20:43
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

If they would take ownership of it and sell it themselves, we would be quite happy. But here it seems they don't, they communicate what the fair market value is based on one auction result, and you're left to deal with the wreck disposal - good luck!

- The auction came with a high bid, and so they fixed their future financial liability very low,
- they put up a self-imposed procedural barrier (without legal baking), making it impossible for us to actually honor the current bid.
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  #91  
Old 26.03.2021, 20:44
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

Keep it and fix it.

Tom
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  #92  
Old 26.03.2021, 20:47
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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Obviously, they know the cars market value, they sell the salvage & lose the difference.

What do you suggest they should do differently? They have to dispose of 100's of cars a week, they do it the way that gives them the highest return or smallest loss.
If you think there's something funny going on then complain to the insurance ombudsman. I think it's very unlikely Mobiliar aren't being straight, saving a few francs on the value of a write-off is really not worth it for them.

Or don't use their auction - as you said, it's your metal, you're free to get a better deal if you can. Which I strongly suspect you won't - without the advantage of volume the costs will be high, and the people looking for write-offs are all at that auction not looking on AutoScout.
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Old 26.03.2021, 20:55
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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Depends on how much you spend on cars,...

If you lease a 90k car with a 120k salary thats a different proposition.
Usually get practical cars in the 30 to 40K ballpark. But get em new and after about 10 years switch to partial compensation. Diff in price is usually just few hundred franks savings.
Way I see it one doesn't have to waste time shopping for the best repair deal. Just bring it to the dealer and pick up a loaner. Also assume that the insurance will be more inclined go after the other party to pay for the damage. But can't really say.
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Old 26.03.2021, 21:31
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

I will never keep a car after structural damage has occurred - the risks of still ending up with things out of whack, compromised safety, gremlins etc. is just not worth the hassle, and its value plummets anyway.
On this one both frame rails got twisted, quarter panels buckled.

Also developed a hard and fast rule which limits the exposure - I get the cars costing no more than 3 monthly wages, motorcycles no more than 1. With this, I rarely take comprehensive coverage after the 2nd year of ownership.

Concerning the insurer - I don't think at all it's somehow a concerted plot :-) how they work it's just bizarre to me

Last edited by Northman; 26.03.2021 at 21:47.
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  #95  
Old 26.03.2021, 21:49
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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Also developed a hard and fast rule which limits the exposure - I get the cars costing no more than 3 monthly wages, motorcycles no more than 1. With this, I rarely take comprehensive coverage after the 2nd year of ownership.
I do the opposite: cars one month, motorcycles three months or four (OEM price, not what I actually paid).

Tom
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  #96  
Old 26.03.2021, 22:05
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

:-)
@Tom - my equation started off well balanced with 2 and 2, but then wife and kids skewed it!
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Old 26.03.2021, 22:24
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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:-)
@Tom - my equation started off well balanced with 2 and 2, but then wife and kids skewed it!
My kids have their own motorcycles.

Tom
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  #98  
Old 26.03.2021, 22:56
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

I feel, assuming no fault, it should be: Sell your car for x, claim against the other driver for replacement cost - x + expenses. You have in no way agreed to the conditions or policy of someone else's insurer, but without legal back-up it might be difficult.
If it were an at fault 1st party claim against your own insurer then things would of course be different.
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Old 28.03.2021, 14:27
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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Also developed a hard and fast rule which limits the exposure - I get the cars costing no more than 3 monthly wages, motorcycles no more than 1. With this, I rarely take comprehensive coverage after the 2nd year of ownership.
Is comprehensive coverage Vollkasko? If so, you're almost certainly overpaying(*) because the premium is based on the list price, but the payout is limited to what's called "Zeitwert", basically market value (see your T&C for the details).


(*) unless you earn gazillions
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  #100  
Old 28.03.2021, 22:58
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

In different countries the mandatory 3rd party insurance and vollkasko vary a lot in price and conditions. When buying a vehicle new, kasko I think is worth it for a year or two, if it's priced correctly.

I have not yet taken any vehicle insurance in CH, looking forward to it ...
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