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  #101  
Old 29.03.2021, 11:49
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

That was meant with a tone of anguish, could not figure out the proper smiley...
Switzerland seems to be the most over insured country in the world.
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  #102  
Old 29.03.2021, 12:01
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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That was meant with a tone of anguish, could not figure out the proper smiley...
Switzerland seems to be the most over insured country in the world.
Swiss insurers seem to pay out, with very little investigation.
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  #103  
Old 29.03.2021, 13:29
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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Looking forward to buying insurance?
It was sarcasm - i.e. he's not looking forward to it.
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  #104  
Old 29.03.2021, 13:47
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

How much you pay also depends on your bonus level, and if you keep it insured/registered year round.

Tom
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  #105  
Old 29.03.2021, 14:28
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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If you do something which could be considered dangerous driving then it's fair not to expect another driver to deal with it.

But stopping at a red light isn't dangerous driving, pretty much regardless of how you do it. Even if you braked suddenly at the last moment, the driver behind would also have had the warning of the amber traffic light same as the one in front.

Yep that cost me with my first car. The guy slammed on literally just as it went amber at a set of lights and I hit him and he only had maybe 6 inches of his car NOT over the white line.

He even got out and apologised for slamming on late and he hadn't remotely seen me in his mirror.

Made no difference - I still got the hit because I should have stopped regardless.
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  #106  
Old 03.04.2021, 13:43
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

@Spaceghost - out of interest, was that in Switzerland?
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  #107  
Old 03.04.2021, 14:04
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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@Spaceghost - out of interest, was that in Switzerland?
Probably not as he would have mentioned a huge fine & possibly a driving ban or at least a warning.
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  #108  
Old 18.06.2021, 13:56
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

So the first "Verfarhren" letter has arrived, it says something along the lines that my wife is guilty of sudden braking even though she's observed the other car behind - therefore contributing to a dangerous situation. This is false, as she declared she observed the car only after applying the brakes.
It also says the other driver has their separate "Verfahren", without mentioning what they are.

Fined with 300 fine + 200 CHF admin fee ... It seems to me this will have an implication on the insurance payout as well.
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  #109  
Old 18.06.2021, 14:38
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

it seems that the 5-0 is building a case on the fact that she should have been prepared for this. The fine for the one behind will be higher.

I also expect that the insurance will see it as follower-fault or worst case some split. Are they asking for the court outcome?
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  #110  
Old 18.06.2021, 14:57
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

Wasn't she stopping for a red traffic light?
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  #111  
Old 18.06.2021, 17:27
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

She started braking decisively before the junction when the light changed from green to yellow. It is a very short yellow, you’re much guaranteed to be running the red by the time you actually cross from that distance. The traffic red light camera did not record it we were told, which probably means it ploughed through on the last yellow fraction.
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  #112  
Old 18.06.2021, 17:27
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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So the first "Verfarhren" letter has arrived, it says something along the lines that my wife is guilty of sudden braking even though she's observed the other car behind - therefore contributing to a dangerous situation. This is false, as she declared she observed the car only after applying the brakes.
It also says the other driver has their separate "Verfahren", without mentioning what they are.

Fined with 300 fine + 200 CHF admin fee ... It seems to me this will have an implication on the insurance payout as well.
The prosecution seems to say there was no yellow/red light thus your wife is partially responsible as she stopped voluntarily, thereby causing a hazardous situation. What does the protocol say your wife signed (assuming she did answer the questions and signed the protocol, not always a good idea) when questioned by the police? Is her German solid enough to spot such an error if there was one, and would she have it corrected? And what does the other driver's testimony say, did she claim it was green? Subject to the details, this may also result in a temporary license suspension (seems likely) on top.

Yes, do talk to your insurance, whether it would affect their payment if you accepted the StrafBefehl. Also, since the other driver was hospitalised, what would that mean for those costs, plus any additional cost. What if, to play advocatus diaboli, the other decided that she got a trauma that renders her unable to work for the next 20 years?
Do request the insurance's reply in writing.

Formally, you have only limited time to object, probably ten days. That may be extendable, perhaps enquire.

Looks like a good time to get legal advice, at least for an assessment.
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  #113  
Old 18.06.2021, 17:33
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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She started braking decisively before the junction when the light changed from green to yellow. It is a very short yellow, you’re much guaranteed to be running the red by the time you actually cross from that distance. The traffic red light camera did not record it we were told, which probably means it ploughed through on the last yellow fraction.
Yellow means stop & nothing other than stop.

I would go to court on this one
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  #114  
Old 18.06.2021, 17:44
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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Yellow means stop & nothing other than stop.
Stop if it is safe to do so, surely?
The stopping distance at 50kph is about 35m. If you're within that when the light changes, you're not going to be able to stop.
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  #115  
Old 18.06.2021, 17:45
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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She started braking decisively before the junction when the light changed from green to yellow. It is a very short yellow, you’re much guaranteed to be running the red by the time you actually cross from that distance. The traffic red light camera did not record it we were told, which probably means it ploughed through on the last yellow fraction.
There‘s no such thing as „a very short yellow“. They are the same throughout the county. It would be total chaos otherwise…
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  #116  
Old 18.06.2021, 17:58
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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There‘s no such thing as „a very short yellow“. They are the same throughout the county. It would be total chaos otherwise…
A km away from home there's a stoplight in an 80 km/h zone. Yellows at damned short for 80 km/h. So I usually drive at 50-60 km/h to be able to stop.
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  #117  
Old 18.06.2021, 18:08
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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There‘s no such thing as „a very short yellow“. They are the same throughout the county. It would be total chaos otherwise…
I beg to differ - pretty sure different junctions can be timed differently, as speed and junction size vary. We all know pesky lights in the city centers where barely 2 cars can squeeze out in one go.
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  #118  
Old 18.06.2021, 18:18
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

The OP's wife is British, right? In the UK the yellows are generally shorter than here (I think I got that the right way around) so she maybe jammed on he brakes as soon as she saw yellow with the driver behind expecting to be able to cross on yellow, possibly accelerating to do so. My mother does this and also once got rear-ended. Yellow means stop if you reasonably can. It doesn't mean emergency stop. That doesn't entitle the person behind you to drive into you though.

I suspect there's more to the story but without evidence I don't understand how the OP's wife can be held responsible.

Last edited by Landers; 18.06.2021 at 18:28.
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  #119  
Old 18.06.2021, 18:52
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

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Stop if it is safe to do so, surely?
The stopping distance at 50kph is about 35m. If you're within that when the light changes, you're not going to be able to stop.
You need to drive in control, the first car was able to stop, the second one probably accelerated at yellow & did not attempt to stop as required by law.
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I suspect there's more to the story but without evidence I don't understand how the OP's wife can be held responsible.
It's fairly standard to prosecute everybody, if you don't appeal you have accepted your guilt.
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  #120  
Old 18.06.2021, 19:25
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Re: Rear-End Accident - Fault Attribution

We’ll get the protocol on Monday (is only handed out in person) and see what the full story is. The police wrote the protocol in German during the interview and played it back to us in English on the fly. It appeared legit, and she signed it. In hindsight, should have known better…
From a legal standpoint, this probably opens them up as well for invalidation.
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