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  #21  
Old 19.05.2021, 20:11
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Re: Caught driving with expired UK License

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It will be a fine plus some admin fees.
FTFY
The fact that you already fixed the issue and just had an expired photocard should count in your favour.....but the paperwork goes through an admin process and the fine will be something like 200 with costs of 3-500. Donut fund/Christmas party stuff.....
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  #22  
Old 20.05.2021, 09:45
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Re: Caught driving with expired UK License

Quick update, I got my first letter today which includes the following text. I'd really appreciate some help

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Wer ein Motorfahrzeug geführt hat, ohne einen Führerausweis zu besitzen, erhählt während mindestens sechs Monaten nach der Widerhandlung weder Lernfahr- noch Führerausweis. Erreicht die Person das Mindestalter erst nach der Widerhandlung, so begint die Sperrfrist ab diesem Zeitpunkt.

Aufgrund dieses Sachverhalts beabsichtigen wir, den Lernfahr- oder Führausweise zu verwiegern. Die Verweigerung (Sperre) richtet sich nach den konkreten Umständen und dauert mindestens sechs Monate.

Bevor wir eine Verfüngung treffen, geben wir Ihnen Gelegenheit, sich innert 10 Tagen ab Zustellung dieses Schreibens schriftlich zu äussern. Nach ablauf der Frist wird das Verfahren mit einer kostenpflichtigen Verfügung abgeschlossen.
My German isn't advanced enough for this, does this mean that I am banned from driving for 6 months in CH? And that a fine will follow later?
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  #23  
Old 20.05.2021, 09:47
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Re: Caught driving with expired UK License

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Quick update, I got my first letter today which includes the following text. I'd really appreciate some help



My German isn't advanced enough for this, does this mean that I am banned from driving for 6 months in CH? And that a fine will follow later?
You have ten days to respond in writing, thereafter yes.

Tom
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Old 20.05.2021, 09:58
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Re: Caught driving with expired UK License

I would formally respond in German (so get some help) providing a copy of the new photocard and the underlying drivers licence. There will be a person in this process that you're paying for, get your money's worth
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Old 20.05.2021, 10:20
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Re: Caught driving with expired UK License

is it illegal not to have your drivers licence on you when driving?
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  #26  
Old 20.05.2021, 10:31
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Re: Caught driving with expired UK License

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is it illegal not to have your drivers licence on you when driving?
Yes.
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Old 20.05.2021, 12:23
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Re: Caught driving with expired UK License

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Quick update, I got my first letter today which includes the following text. I'd really appreciate some help



My German isn't advanced enough for this, does this mean that I am banned from driving for 6 months in CH? And that a fine will follow later?
You need legal help. Yes it will cost you but it should be cheaper than the fine. Especially as your German is not good enough. Start here. https://www.sgav.ch/anwaltssuche/st-gallen.html Unfortunately you can't use the unentgeltliche Rechtsauskunft because the first available slot is after your First (innert 10 Tagen) i.e. you have to reply within 10 days.

Have all the documents ready when you go to a lawyer. Everything that you could possibly use/need.
Another thing to do is to call the British embassy. Maybe they can help. At least try.
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Old 20.05.2021, 13:18
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Re: Caught driving with expired UK License

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You have ten days to respond in writing, thereafter yes.

Tom
My German isn't stellar either. Does it not say they will simply not issue a license for six months rather than ban him for 6 months? Apologies if I'm wrong here. He's been here for less than a year so can still get a UK licence issued.

That said - does that mean he won't be able to swap his UK licence for a Swiss one? That has to be done within a year of arriving which is greater than 9 months plus 6 months. I wonder if the kanton will actually notice however, and if so whether swapping the licence counts as issuing a new license or not.
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  #29  
Old 20.05.2021, 13:27
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Re: Caught driving with expired UK License

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is it illegal not to have your drivers licence on you when driving?
I believe it's a 20CHF fine so it's not like you're going to jail. However if you don't have it with you they can't confiscate it immediately on the spot and leave you and your car stranded.
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  #30  
Old 20.05.2021, 13:39
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Re: Caught driving with expired UK License

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That said - does that mean he won't be able to swap his UK licence for a Swiss one? That has to be done within a year of arriving.
No, it doesn't have to be done with one year, but you cannot USE it after one year.

You have 5 years to swap it.

Tom
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  #31  
Old 20.05.2021, 13:42
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Re: Caught driving with expired UK License

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My German isn't stellar either. Does it not say they will simply not issue a license for six months rather than ban him for 6 months? Apologies if I'm wrong here. He's been here for less than a year so can still get a UK licence issued.

That said - does that mean he won't be able to swap his UK licence for a Swiss one? That has to be done within a year of arriving which is greater than 9 months plus 6 months. I wonder if the kanton will actually notice however, and if so whether swapping the licence counts as issuing a new license or not.
Well deepl gives:

A person who has driven a motor vehicle without a driver's license is not entitled to a learner's permit or a driver's license for at least six months after the offense. If the person reaches the minimum age only after the offence, the ban period starts from that time.

Based on these facts, we intend to refuse the learner's permit or driver's license. The denial (suspension) depends on the specific circumstances and lasts at least six months.

Before we make a decision, we will give you the opportunity to submit your comments in writing within 10 days of receiving this letter. After expiry of the deadline, the procedure will be concluded with a chargeable order.

So it seems they intend to suspend the licence for six months. However yes could it be they simply want to block obtaining a *Swiss* licence for 6 months? at which time you'll have already have left the country. I wonder if it would be worthwhile getting someone to call and ask for you. You have 10 days to give your case. After 10 days they'll proceed with the prosecution which will cost money.

It seems they they really consider an expired photocard licence to be the same as having no licence at all.
Swiss licences don't appear to have an expiry date and mine that I converted from a UK one has the start date being the original start date. Had you have converted your licence there would have been no problem.
You can try to point out the original start date and that the "expiry date" is only for the photo part, just like with a passport, it's still you just that the photo is old. It would be prudent to get some proper advice and help if you want to continue driving.
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  #32  
Old 20.05.2021, 18:46
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Re: Caught driving with expired UK License

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Quick update, I got my first letter today which includes the following text. I'd really appreciate some help

My German isn't advanced enough for this, does this mean that I am banned from driving for 6 months in CH? And that a fine will follow later?
Their position is that your lapsed license means you didn't have a drivers license at all, that comes with a minimum 6-month driving ban. Plus a hefty fine (probably something like 20-30 daily income), plus administrative costs for the priviledge of getting banned.

If you don't react, the next step will be a Strafbefehl, a provisional ruling by the prosecution amounting to the fine you'd probably be sentenced for by a court, based on their assessment. You can then challenge that, upon which it will go to the courts. But IMHO your priority should be to try and get the Strafbefehl reduced in the first place.

Since your drivers license has been issued by the UK, the Swiss ban will affect CH only. But they'll probably inform the UK, which then may or may not react whichever way they deem appropriate. A ban by the UK, no idea how likely that is, would affect the license itself and almost certainly have effect in the country you plan to move on to, too.

Yes, a lawyer seems well worth consulting. You need to act quickly.
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You can try to point out the original start date and that the "expiry date" is only for the photo part, just like with a passport, it's still you just that the photo is old. It would be prudent to get some proper advice and help if you want to continue driving.
Exactly. You don't lose citizenship just because the passport has reached the end of its validity. Likewise, OP didn't lose the permit to drive, just the paper license was no longer valid. That's why I suggested to get confirmation that his permission has been valid since 2013, without interruption. Or does the British drivers license mention when the drivers test was passed?
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  #33  
Old 20.05.2021, 19:01
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Re: Caught driving with expired UK License

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Swiss licences don't appear to have an expiry date.
They never expire.

Tom
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Old 20.05.2021, 21:47
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Re: Caught driving with expired UK License

Thank you everyone. There's a lot of great information here.

I will ask whether it would be enough to simply state that I need more time to respond than 10 days to obtain legal advice and translation. Not sure whether that will fly but we'll see.
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  #35  
Old 20.05.2021, 21:54
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Re: Caught driving with expired UK License

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Exactly. You don't lose citizenship just because the passport has reached the end of its validity. Likewise, OP didn't lose the permit to drive, just the paper license was no longer valid. That's why I suggested to get confirmation that his permission has been valid since 2013, without interruption. Or does the British drivers license mention when the drivers test was passed?
His paper licence was still valid, it was the photo card that accompanied the paper licence that had expired.
A UK licence is valid until the age of 70 but the accompanying photo card part has to be renewed every 10 years.
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  #36  
Old 20.05.2021, 22:12
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Re: Caught driving with expired UK License

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His paper licence was still valid, it was the photo card that accompanied the paper licence that had expired.
A UK licence is valid until the age of 70 but the accompanying photo card part has to be renewed every 10 years.
That is the information that needs to be provided to the court, once they realise the license is actually valid they should drop the case. Swiss licenses don't work in this way so they believe the license has expired when just the card has expired. Downloading the status from DVLA might be helpful too
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Old 20.05.2021, 22:28
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Re: Caught driving with expired UK License

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I would formally respond in German (so get some help) providing a copy of the new photocard and the underlying drivers licence. There will be a person in this process that you're paying for, get your money's worth
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That is the information that needs to be provided to the court, once they realise the license is actually valid they should drop the case. Swiss licenses don't work in this way so they believe the license has expired when just the card has expired. Downloading the status from DVLA might be helpful too
Exactly my point - but they will likely not accept the response in English, whether you're right or not. But having said that, it also does not need to be a love letter
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  #38  
Old 20.05.2021, 22:51
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Re: Caught driving with expired UK License

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Exactly. You don't lose citizenship just because the passport has reached the end of its validity. Likewise, OP didn't lose the permit to drive, just the paper license was no longer valid.
I must say that I'm confused why are so many of you confused

You can't use invalid passport and attempt to do so might end up in fines since it's some offence or something.
No one questions your citizenship, but legal documents have to be valid when you use them. That's the whole purpose of them having expiry date.

Same with drivers licence.
Driving without having licence (eg not having permit to drive) and with expired one has one thing in common - you don't have a document that is valid and proves your status.

I'd expect fines to be different (I think in Croatia they are, but they definitely exist for both cases), but by that letter it seems that CH completely equates those two cases.

It's nice that CH doesn't have expiry date for drivers licences, but since UK has, CH folks just obey what's written in that document.

I'm afraid you don't have a case here, so don't hold your hopes too high. Definitely seek legal advice though, you never know where the loophole might be.
But I highly doubt it'll be 'I have a permit to drive, it's just a card that expired'. Since that's the whole point of such cards with expiration - to disable you from driving unless you have a valid one.
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Old 20.05.2021, 22:59
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Re: Caught driving with expired UK License

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His paper licence was still valid, it was the photo card that accompanied the paper licence that had expired.
A UK licence is valid until the age of 70 but the accompanying photo card part has to be renewed every 10 years.
The paper counterpart no longer exists, only a card these days.
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Old 20.05.2021, 23:38
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Re: Caught driving with expired UK License

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I must say that I'm confused why are so many of you confused
I am confused by you being confused why other people are confused, because at the same time you are also confused by exactly the same thing as other people, I am citing you "I'd expect fines to be different, but by that letter it seems that CH completely equates those two cases."
You seem unsure, or maybe, even a lttile bit confused

But despair not, soon it will be Friday, when everything is clear on EF.
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