Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Transportation/driving  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 30.06.2021, 10:59
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 935
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 1,156 Times in 587 Posts
irish_temptation has a reputation beyond reputeirish_temptation has a reputation beyond reputeirish_temptation has a reputation beyond reputeirish_temptation has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How NOT to sell a car (Hail damage)

Quote:
View Post
Basically, the car is your property and the damage was done due to an "act of god" hence your damage and your insurance that needs to cover it.

Did the dealer act negligently? Considering that he has a lot full of cars and likely treated your car in the same manner has he treated his own cars, it is doubtful.

The dealer moving your car from a covered place to a non-covered place will presumably not be viewed as negligence if the covered place was for temporary parking (as is the case at my dealer). In this case moving your car would have been normal business.

It might be different if the dealer - in light of the hail forecast - decided to move his more expensive cars under cover and moved your car out to be exposed. In this case one could argue that the dealer intentionally exposed your car to a higher risk, and did not actually give your car the same measure of diligence as in his own matters... (whether that actually gives rise to liability is an interesting question). Did you take a photo of the car that was under the cover after the storm? If it is a Lamborghini you might be on the right track...
Mica just out of interest. What would happen the customer leaves the car given from the garage out in the open and it gets hail damage. Would the customer be responsible because the car was in his care or the insurance of the garage because its their car?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank irish_temptation for this useful post:
  #42  
Old 30.06.2021, 11:00
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,627
Groaned at 70 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 3,798 Times in 2,056 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How NOT to sell a car (Hail damage)

Last year, I drove by a local dealership just before a huge storm was forecasted.
They usually have dozens of cars parked outside - but they had all gone, presumably parked inside.

Margins on selling cars are razor-thin, so somebody probably cut a corner or two and scaled back insurance while having too many cars to park in a garage or some sort of shed.

So, they're really f'ed.

Additionally, the ID.3 isn't really "sold" by them, they are just the agent. The seller is VW (at least in Germany, don't know how it works in Switzerland) - but their margin on that one is very certainly even thinner than on an ICE car and they very certainly cannot negotiate the price either. In Germany, the dealer sometimes throws in a floor-mat if you're lucky.

So, the 4k they'd have to eat and never be able to recoup because that GTI's value will drop faster than that of 55" flatscreen TV for every day it sits on their lot.
Dealers will go extinct.




Better get an SR+ from China ;-)
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post:
  #43  
Old 30.06.2021, 11:11
Mica's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 910
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 1,167 Times in 517 Posts
Mica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How NOT to sell a car (Hail damage)

Quote:
View Post
Mica just out of interest. What would happen the customer leaves the car given from the garage out in the open and it gets hail damage. Would the customer be responsible because the car was in his care or the insurance of the garage because its their car?
Considering that a good percentage of cars in Switzerland are regularly left out in the open, one would presumably not be considered negligent to have left the car out in the open. Accordingly, the insurance of the garage would need to kick in.

If on the other hand you decide to chase tornados and end up getting hail damage...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Mica for this useful post:
  #44  
Old 30.06.2021, 11:18
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Formerly in Neuchatel
Posts: 3,031
Groaned at 232 Times in 159 Posts
Thanked 5,842 Times in 2,145 Posts
porsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond reputeporsch1909 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How NOT to sell a car (Hail damage)

I'm surprised you have a 1000CHF excess. Long ago when I was in CH I had hail damage on my car and there wasn't any excess to pay to get it repaired.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank porsch1909 for this useful post:
  #45  
Old 30.06.2021, 11:23
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,649
Groaned at 290 Times in 235 Posts
Thanked 24,846 Times in 10,492 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How NOT to sell a car (Hail damage)

Quote:
View Post
Last year, I drove by a local dealership just before a huge storm was forecasted.
They usually have dozens of cars parked outside - but they had all gone, presumably parked inside.

Margins on selling cars are razor-thin, so somebody probably cut a corner or two and scaled back insurance while having too many cars to park in a garage or some sort of shed.

So, they're really f'ed.

Additionally, the ID.3 isn't really "sold" by them, they are just the agent. The seller is VW (at least in Germany, don't know how it works in Switzerland) - but their margin on that one is very certainly even thinner than on an ICE car and they very certainly cannot negotiate the price either. In Germany, the dealer sometimes throws in a floor-mat if you're lucky.

So, the 4k they'd have to eat and never be able to recoup because that GTI's value will drop faster than that of 55" flatscreen TV for every day it sits on their lot.
Dealers will go extinct.




Better get an SR+ from China ;-)
From what I heard from a Swiss friend who used to have a VW dealership but quit about 10 years ago, VW has a model that punishes small garages and rewards big ones. So the smaller you are and the fewer units you can sell, the lower the margin you get. And the progression is pretty steep so basically VW is telling its dealerships to go big or go bust.

My friend owned his garage in the third generation and had a very loyal customer base some of who came from far away because of the good service. And all that was wiped out practically overnight because VW doesn't care about that kind of thing.

On the other hand the model means that many dealerships are trying to play above their weight and holding more stock than the size of their premises or their ability allows.

Sometimes when you gamble the fat lady sings.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #46  
Old 30.06.2021, 11:23
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 7,068
Groaned at 352 Times in 235 Posts
Thanked 16,646 Times in 5,102 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How NOT to sell a car (Hail damage)

I bought my Hyundai there. The price couldn’t be beat for a brand new car. I can imagine when everything goes smoothly, they’re fine. However, if something goes wrong, they might be hail on earth.

Last edited by olygirl; 30.06.2021 at 11:34.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank olygirl for this useful post:
  #47  
Old 30.06.2021, 11:30
Belgianmum's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Neuchâtel
Posts: 13,056
Groaned at 228 Times in 192 Posts
Thanked 21,561 Times in 8,834 Posts
Belgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond reputeBelgianmum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How NOT to sell a car (Hail damage)

Quote:
View Post
I'm surprised you have a 1000CHF excess. Long ago when I was in CH I had hail damage on my car and there wasn't any excess to pay to get it repaired.
Me too, we don’t have an excess for hail damage.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Belgianmum for this useful post:
  #48  
Old 30.06.2021, 13:46
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,231
Groaned at 347 Times in 237 Posts
Thanked 12,004 Times in 4,119 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How NOT to sell a car (Hail damage)

UPDATE:
Phoned the boss of the dealership this morning and spoke in English. Previously with salesman in Swiss German.

Meeting arranged this pm with said boss and he sounded confident they could handle it all at no cost to us. We‘ll see…
Reply With Quote
The following 16 users would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #49  
Old 30.06.2021, 14:32
Sean Connery's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 5,562
Groaned at 58 Times in 54 Posts
Thanked 7,547 Times in 3,386 Posts
Sean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond reputeSean Connery has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How NOT to sell a car (Hail damage)

I am sure your order won't be signed until the jobs is done

I also assume discounts on this new electric fleet is not particularly high, correct?
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 30.06.2021, 15:13
eyebeebe's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pfäffikon SZ
Posts: 2,066
Groaned at 17 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,686 Times in 1,155 Posts
eyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond reputeeyebeebe has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How NOT to sell a car (Hail damage)

Quote:
View Post
I am sure your order won't be signed until the jobs is done

I also assume discounts on this new electric fleet is not particularly high, correct?
What I’ve heard from a couple of people recently is that the deals on electric and hybrid cars from VAG brands are actually really good, because they need to get their overall CO2 numbers across their sales down.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank eyebeebe for this useful post:
  #51  
Old 30.06.2021, 16:06
Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: CH
Posts: 112
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 88 Times in 43 Posts
besmegenis is considered knowledgeablebesmegenis is considered knowledgeablebesmegenis is considered knowledgeable
Re: How NOT to sell a car (Hail damage)

What is in general considered good/really good deal? Skoda Enyaq looks quite nice

Quote:
View Post
What I’ve heard from a couple of people recently is that the deals on electric and hybrid cars from VAG brands are actually really good, because they need to get their overall CO2 numbers across their sales down.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 30.06.2021, 16:14
Ato Ato is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: ZH
Posts: 1,512
Groaned at 15 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 2,800 Times in 1,135 Posts
Ato has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond reputeAto has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How NOT to sell a car (Hail damage)

Quote:
View Post
Skoda Enyaq
I thought this was a typo, now I'm curious to the pronunciation. Enya-Q/In-Yak/Enny-aque?
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 30.06.2021, 16:36
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,231
Groaned at 347 Times in 237 Posts
Thanked 12,004 Times in 4,119 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How NOT to sell a car (Hail damage)

Quote:
View Post
UPDATE:
Phoned the boss of the dealership this morning and spoke in English. Previously with salesman in Swiss German.

Meeting arranged this pm with said boss and he sounded confident they could handle it all at no cost to us. We‘ll see…
So, the boss was charming and apologetic said we won't pay anything for the hail damage.

They will take the car themselves to be inspected by our insurer (Zurich) next week (earliest pos.) and then decide if the Zurich pays (we have no excess and no loss of no claims bonus for hail damage) or if the dealer buys the car off us at the original trade-in price we agreed and they use their insurance as the car will then belong to them.

We would rent our own car from them at a "minimal rate" until the new one comes - yes we ordered an iD.3. - delivery September/October.

Moral: In a crisis 1) talk to head cook 2) talk to them in English, this gives you a great advantage here - at least when you are the customer...
__________________


************************************
Fed up of smoking? 10 tips to quit in 10 days
Reply With Quote
The following 16 users would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #54  
Old 30.06.2021, 16:46
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,999
Groaned at 449 Times in 343 Posts
Thanked 22,278 Times in 11,530 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How NOT to sell a car (Hail damage)

Quote:
View Post
So, the boss was charming and apologetic said we won't pay anything for the hail damage.

They will take the car themselves to be inspected by our insurer (Zurich) next week (earliest pos.) and then decide if the Zurich pays (we have no excess and no loss of no claims bonus for hail damage) or if the dealer buys the car off us at the original trade-in price we agreed and they use their insurance as the car will then belong to them.

We would rent our own car from them at a "minimal rate" until the new one comes - yes we ordered an iD.3. - delivery September/October.

Moral: In a crisis 1) talk to head cook 2) talk to them in English, this gives you a great advantage here - at least when you are the customer...
Sounds like a very fair arrangement, as I have found nothing is lost by escalating complaints to a higher authority
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #55  
Old 30.06.2021, 17:20
Axa's Avatar
Axa Axa is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Suhr, Aargau
Posts: 2,930
Groaned at 37 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 3,944 Times in 1,830 Posts
Axa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond reputeAxa has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How NOT to sell a car (Hail damage)

Quote:
View Post
Sounds like a very fair arrangement, as I have found nothing is lost by escalating complaints to a higher authority
I demand to talk to the manager!!! I know it's a joke, but sometimes it's truly warranted.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Axa for this useful post:
  #56  
Old 30.06.2021, 21:42
blacky's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: ZH (from ~Sep '21), Berlin now
Posts: 180
Groaned at 5 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 237 Times in 102 Posts
blacky has an excellent reputationblacky has an excellent reputationblacky has an excellent reputationblacky has an excellent reputation
Re: How NOT to sell a car (Hail damage)

@AbFab: why do you think talking in English made a difference?
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 30.06.2021, 21:57
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,999
Groaned at 449 Times in 343 Posts
Thanked 22,278 Times in 11,530 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How NOT to sell a car (Hail damage)

Quote:
View Post
@AbFab: why do you think talking in English made a difference?
It puts the dealer at a disadvantage as English is unlikely to be his mother tong.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 30.06.2021, 22:07
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,649
Groaned at 290 Times in 235 Posts
Thanked 24,846 Times in 10,492 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How NOT to sell a car (Hail damage)

Quote:
View Post
Sounds like a very fair arrangement, as I have found nothing is lost by escalating complaints to a higher authority
Except maybe when you’re dealing with the Sicilian culture club ?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #59  
Old 30.06.2021, 23:01
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,231
Groaned at 347 Times in 237 Posts
Thanked 12,004 Times in 4,119 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How NOT to sell a car (Hail damage)

Quote:
View Post
@AbFab: why do you think talking in English made a difference?
Very much so. I will never be able to speak as well in German and I feel, rightly or wrongly, in such situations whoever I am talking to has to spend time finding the words - and I don't.

Worked well in this case - when you are a customer in a complaints situation, I feel it your privilege to take that advantage. Obviously won't work with all languages, but English is a strong card to play in the Deutsch Schweiz...
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
  #60  
Old 01.07.2021, 08:11
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 3,740
Groaned at 75 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 4,521 Times in 2,066 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: How NOT to sell a car (Hail damage)

Quote:
View Post
I demand to talk to the manager!!! I know it's a joke, but sometimes it's truly warranted.
It's also practical - the sales guy has one target and one budget, any loss impacts his bonus and he doesn't have much wiggle room. (The days when they used to promise the world and push all the costs to the service department are gone.)

The manager has many more options to absorb the loss / offer alternatives and much more authority to do so in creative ways.

This is even more true in low value sales (i.e. not cars), where there's not much negotiation on price and no flexibility for the salesman.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
All hail batman Chemmie General off-topic 21 24.07.2014 14:56
What kind of insurance covers HAIL Damage on Car? Ig0r Insurance 8 10.07.2012 00:32
Hail damage Phil_MCR Housing in general 12 10.07.2012 00:22
A *Hail* from Lucern adew Introductions 1 20.08.2011 20:29
All hail the ginger one! Boxman Football/sports 34 03.03.2010 23:27


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:03.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0