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  #21  
Old 12.07.2021, 07:31
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Re: Are Swiss drivers kind / patient?

Get Swiss plates and come back and report the difference...
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  #22  
Old 12.07.2021, 07:51
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Re: Are Swiss drivers kind / patient?

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Get Swiss plates and come back and report the difference...
This.

@OP,
do you still have german plates by any chance? That might explain a lot. I've noticed an incredibly rude and aggressive behaviour towards foreign vehicles. I mean it. It's like they are different people.
Granted, I doubt these drivers are all Swiss. We have a mix of nationalities here and you can never tell.

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Usually yes better than most, they don’t just get the stopping at roundabouts thing.

Most will leave you out of a jam courteously that doesn’t happen in most other countries.
Yep, this too.
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  #23  
Old 12.07.2021, 08:59
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Re: Are Swiss drivers kind / patient?

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I've also noticed that people here often act very impatient while waiting in line in the grocery store, even if it's not a long line, which (strangely) is something that I don't ever remember experiencing in the States.
Categorically untrue, perhaps your experience but I’d counter your sample size is too small. Line tension is often high in USofA

I’d also note expats from my sample size en Suisse are less queue compliant (looking for shortcuts) than Suisse. Primer Août queuing always come to mind, despite English priding themselves on queue etiquette

La Suisse love rules so natural they are more likely to adhere to them
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  #24  
Old 12.07.2021, 09:29
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Re: Are Swiss drivers kind / patient?

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Categorically untrue, perhaps your experience but I’d counter your sample size is too small. Line tension is often high in USofA

I’d also note expats from my sample size en Suisse are less queue compliant (looking for shortcuts) than Suisse. Primer Août queuing always come to mind, despite English priding themselves on queue etiquette

La Suisse love rules so natural they are more likely to adhere to them
Oh man, the Swiss hate standing in line but have improved over the last few decades. I agree with Pancakes assessment but perhaps there's a difference between the German part of Switzerland and the French/Italian parts.
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  #25  
Old 12.07.2021, 09:33
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Re: Are Swiss drivers kind / patient?

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Did not get you mate. Was this cynical? Cause so far they looked locals...
Listen pal, I'm not your mate. The point was, old bean, that depending where you're driving a significant proportion of the drivers on Swiss roads - even with Swiss plates - won't be Swiss. I thought that was pretty obvious, but there, I've spelled it out for you.
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Italians are the best drivers, Germans the worst.

Tom
Clearly true. It takes real skill to drive above 130kph, two millimeters away from someone's bumper.
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  #26  
Old 12.07.2021, 10:56
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Re: Are Swiss drivers kind / patient?

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are you sure? From wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/list...ted_death_rate

it: 5.2
de: 3.7

for comparison:
Ch 2.2
europe: 9.3.

So swiss roads appear to be much safer than it/de
fify
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  #27  
Old 12.07.2021, 11:00
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Re: Are Swiss drivers kind / patient?

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I've also noticed that people here often act very impatient while waiting in line in the grocery store, even if it's not a long line, which (strangely) is something that I don't ever remember experiencing in the States.
Oh I get impatient when queuing and seeing some old lady having a chat with the cashier because they live in the same street. Or the guy at the gas station taking 5 minutes to get his lottery tickets.

Driving here is in my view is much less aggressive than in Germany.
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  #28  
Old 12.07.2021, 11:17
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Re: Are Swiss drivers kind / patient?

I don't notice much difference at all tbh, its all much the sameness these days. Although it could be said that giving-way seems to be much more a British thing, here if its your right of way people behind tend to get irritated if you do it.

A better indicator of driving prowess seems to be car type. A suped up Golf GTI with rally stickers will generally drive like an arse, ditto a BMW M3 weaving through lanes, overtaking and undertaking.
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  #29  
Old 12.07.2021, 11:33
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Re: Are Swiss drivers kind / patient?

Driving here I often find that people are kind and courteous in letting other traffic out - especially buses! Though not always the case.

The problem I have is when driving in 50 zones, I generally try to stick to 50 or thereabouts. You tend to get so many impatient drivers, even some complete idiots. While driving around 50 in a 50 zone I have had cars come right up behind me flashing their lights and gesturing one thing or another, been tooted at and also flipped off - as far as I was concerned I was driving the speed limit every time not wanting a fine. I guess those people were just a**eholes who couldn't put up with anyone else being on the road.

Overall it's not too bad driving here, roads are good and easy to follow apart from those weird junctions with the white lines (I forget what they're called in German) where you give way to the car on the right.
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  #30  
Old 12.07.2021, 11:50
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Re: Are Swiss drivers kind / patient?

The only impatient pattern on the road I found in Switzerland is honking when traffic light becomes green, but boy - it is a strong one. I mean, it is something surreal - I get honks the exact instant the light turns green.
I thought that this happens because of yellow-before-green light, so these drivers expect you to get fully ready to start immediately as the light goes green, and honk in case:
- the exact instant light turns green your stop signals are still on
- 0.0128 seconds after light turns green your car is not moving
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  #31  
Old 12.07.2021, 11:52
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Re: Are Swiss drivers kind / patient?

Got all the patience in the world for slow drivers as long as they are not in front of me.
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  #32  
Old 12.07.2021, 11:53
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Re: Are Swiss drivers kind / patient?

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Clearly true. It takes real skill to drive above 130kph, two millimeters away from someone's bumper.
NASCAR all'Italiano!

Tom
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  #33  
Old 12.07.2021, 12:38
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Re: Are Swiss drivers kind / patient?

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The problem I have is when driving in 50 zones, I generally try to stick to 50 or thereabouts. You tend to get so many impatient drivers, even some complete idiots. While driving around 50 in a 50 zone I have had cars come right up behind me flashing their lights and gesturing one thing or another, been tooted at and also flipped off - as far as I was concerned I was driving the speed limit every time not wanting a fine. I guess those people were just a**eholes who couldn't put up with anyone else being on the road.
But you weren’t driving the limit. As everyone’s speedo undercounts you likely were doing 46-49. You won’t be fined
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  #34  
Old 12.07.2021, 12:46
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Re: Are Swiss drivers kind / patient?

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But you weren’t driving the limit. As everyone’s speedo undercounts you likely were doing 46-49. You won’t be fined
Yeah I get that, I usually keep the dial slightly over the 50 to be honest, either way I don't think it's acceptable behaviour and actually I think it's selfish and dangerous to want others in front to go whatever speed you like in a 50
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  #35  
Old 12.07.2021, 12:50
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Re: Are Swiss drivers kind / patient?

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But you weren’t driving the limit. As everyone’s speedo undercounts you likely were doing 46-49. You won’t be fined
I know there is an argument for this, but if you're doing an indicated 50, chances are the person behind you is also doing it, and probably shouldn't be such an arse.
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  #36  
Old 12.07.2021, 12:55
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Re: Are Swiss drivers kind / patient?

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The only impatient pattern on the road I found in Switzerland is honking when traffic light becomes green, but boy - it is a strong one. I mean, it is something surreal - I get honks the exact instant the light turns green.
I thought that this happens because of yellow-before-green light, so these drivers expect you to get fully ready to start immediately as the light goes green, and honk in case:
- the exact instant light turns green your stop signals are still on
- 0.0128 seconds after light turns green your car is not moving
That is because we know that the damn lights will only be green for what seems like ten seconds max, so if you take two seconds to gather your thoughts and pull away, it means at least one car will have to wait for the next green phase when it could have gone on to the next lights if you hadn't been sleeping. And there are a lot of people not watching out for the lights changing, in one case, the guy in front of me was so slow to sort himself out that the light went red again before he could drive off! Granted, it was one of those lights that is notorious for letting no more than three cars pass but it's no excuse for NONE to pass.

So, yes, if you are in front of me and don't start pulling away the SECOND the lights turn green, I will honk at you. If you want to travel around Zurich or any other city in Switzerland at a relaxed pace with plenty of time to check your phone and daydream, then public transport is the choice for you.

@OP: We appear to have "big patience" because we don't like confronting people and spend a lot of time thinking "how the hell does this person not know this, I'm embarrassed to have to tell them, so I'm just going to go to my happy place for now and b*tch about it behind their backs later on". The latter part is a bit of a problem because it creates a big issue where a few direct words would have fixes things easily but even as a native Swiss, you are not exempt from the wrath of "das weiss mer doch!" (one should know this).

If you are really getting so much aggro, then your type of car in combination with German plates may be the issue. Many Germans like to make fun of what terrible Swiss drivers are because we don't habitually do 250 on the Autobahn, so if you do something wrong (or inconvenient) here, it gets noticed and responded to immediately. As for your "patiently waiting behind on German roads" fairytale - heck no, that is not my experience on the Autobahn in Southern Germany, there is fog light flashing and following so close that you don't see their front plates anymore. Same on country roads, if you are not doing 100 on the twisting forest roads, you get tailgated and honked at until you pull over.

I suggest you either get a few driving lessons or learn to not care. Definitely change your plates.

Last edited by Kittster; 12.07.2021 at 13:49. Reason: Typo
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  #37  
Old 12.07.2021, 13:15
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Re: Are Swiss drivers kind / patient?

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But you weren’t driving the limit. As everyone’s speedo undercounts you likely were doing 46-49. You won’t be fined
Hence the minimum speed on your meter should at all times be the limit plus 10 in a 50. Plus 20 on the motorway.

Foreign plates on the motorway are funny - they drive like bkwranger in a 50, always a safe 5-10 below the limit.
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  #38  
Old 12.07.2021, 13:21
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Re: Are Swiss drivers kind / patient?

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The only impatient pattern on the road I found in Switzerland is honking when traffic light becomes green, but boy - it is a strong one. I mean, it is something surreal - I get honks the exact instant the light turns green.
I thought that this happens because of yellow-before-green light, so these drivers expect you to get fully ready to start immediately as the light goes green, and honk in case:
- the exact instant light turns green your stop signals are still on
- 0.0128 seconds after light turns green your car is not moving
Perhaps they’re annoyed because you can go before it’s green, when it’s yellow
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  #39  
Old 12.07.2021, 13:28
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Re: Are Swiss drivers kind / patient?

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Perhaps they’re annoyed because you can go before it’s green, when it’s yellow
You can't go when it's yellow.

Tom
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  #40  
Old 12.07.2021, 14:09
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Re: Are Swiss drivers kind / patient?

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Perhaps they’re annoyed because you can go before it’s green, when it’s yellow
Perhaps they’re annoyed because they think you can go before it’s green, when it’s yellow.

Same as they think it's actually any use to other drivers if you indicate at a junction after you've actually started turning into the new road. (or not indicating at all).

This is my major annoyance - especially when on a bicycle. It happens a lot.
It's interesting that it's one of those road rules that has absolutely no benefit to the driver of the vehicle - it's purely to help other people along their journeys.
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