 | | 
18.07.2021, 17:45
| Newbie 1st class | | Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Shrewsbury
Posts: 12
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts
| | Meaning of empty red circle road sign on wanderweg. Are cyclists allowed?
I live near the Hönggerberg in Zürich. There are several wanderweg going around and along the hill, which are generally good quality wide gravel and tarmac just wide enough for cars and farm vehicles to use for access.
I noticed recently that a couple of these routes have empty red circle road signs:
I had always assumed that these mean no vehicles, including no bicycles, as this is what the U.K. Highway Code specifies. However I often see respectable-looking Swiss people (including families and elderly people talking in fluent Swiss German) cycling along this route past the sign. I have also realised, when I went cycling nearby myself, that these signs only point in one direction. You can cycle along the whole route all the way from the road without ever passing a similar sign facing the other way. There are also facilities for cyclists up on the hill (such as places to lock your bicycle and mountain-biking trails), and I can’t imagine people are pushing their bikes by hand for miles through the forest to reach them. I’m wondering therefore whether I am interpreting these signs too strictly, and that perhaps they have a different meaning in Switzerland: such as simply that cyclists must give way to pedestrians.
When one of the routes was resurfaced (red circle sign going upwards but not downwards) there was even a sign asking people not to cycle there for one month whilst the road surface settled, which would presumably not be needed if cycling was banned.
At any rate, they are presumably not enforceable if they are only at one end of the route.
Can anyone who knows more about Swiss signs help me figure out whether you’re allowed to cycle there or not? (I’m hoping the answer is yes, as it would be a great way to cycle to work)
| 
18.07.2021, 18:18
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Risch
Posts: 791
Groaned at 39 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 864 Times in 446 Posts
| | Re: Meaning of empty red circle road sign on wanderweg. Are cyclists allowed?
No motorised traffic, all good for cyclists | 
18.07.2021, 18:25
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: town not big enough for the both of us
Posts: 1,048
Groaned at 50 Times in 37 Posts
Thanked 1,306 Times in 546 Posts
| | Re: Meaning of empty red circle road sign on wanderweg. Are cyclists allowed? | Quote: | |  | | | No motorised traffic, all good for cyclists | | | | | No, that signal indicates no vehicle is allowed to drive there. Bikes and e-bikes are allowed to be pushed.
Of course, rules don't apply to cyclists here in Switzerland.
| The following 8 users would like to thank Downerbuzz for this useful post: | | 
18.07.2021, 18:27
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Risch
Posts: 791
Groaned at 39 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 864 Times in 446 Posts
| | Re: Meaning of empty red circle road sign on wanderweg. Are cyclists allowed?
Oh shit, I just checked this. No bicycles! and I have ben ignoring these signs for
years | 
18.07.2021, 18:32
| Newbie 1st class | | Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Shrewsbury
Posts: 12
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts
| | Re: Meaning of empty red circle road sign on wanderweg. Are cyclists allowed? | Quote: | |  | | | No, that signal indicates no vehicle is allowed to drive there. Bikes and e-bikes are allowed to be pushed. | | | | | Or in this specific case, that bikes can be ridden west along the route, but not east
If anyone else is familiar with the area, the signs are at one end of the Sonnenbergweg but not the other | This user would like to thank beansprout for this useful post: | | 
18.07.2021, 19:09
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Risch
Posts: 791
Groaned at 39 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 864 Times in 446 Posts
| | Re: Meaning of empty red circle road sign on wanderweg. Are cyclists allowed?
Oh shit, I just checked this. No bicycles! and I have ben ignoring these signs for
years | 
18.07.2021, 21:06
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,721
Groaned at 2,627 Times in 1,869 Posts
Thanked 39,826 Times in 18,785 Posts
| | Re: Meaning of empty red circle road sign on wanderweg. Are cyclists allowed? | Quote: | |  | | | No motorised traffic, all good for cyclists | | | | | With exceptions.
We have such a road to our rustico, we have the right to use it with any vehicles we wish to use.
Tom
| This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post: | | 
18.07.2021, 22:20
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Basle
Posts: 2,974
Groaned at 80 Times in 64 Posts
Thanked 2,073 Times in 1,210 Posts
| | Re: Meaning of empty red circle road sign on wanderweg. Are cyclists allowed? | Quote: | |  | | | Or in this specific case, that bikes can be ridden west along the route, but not east 
If anyone else is familiar with the area, the signs are at one end of the Sonnenbergweg but not the other  | | | | | Does the end without the sign join a normal road?
I know in some pedestrian areas in Germany bikes are allowed but only if they go at walking pace (schritttempo) so maybe a similar 'tolerance' is given in Switzerland i.e. no speed record attempts.
| 
18.07.2021, 23:17
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SG
Posts: 10,023
Groaned at 579 Times in 419 Posts
Thanked 13,466 Times in 7,000 Posts
| | Re: Meaning of empty red circle road sign on wanderweg. Are cyclists allowed?
beansprouts, can you link a map?
There doesn't seem to be a Sonnenbergweg in the Höngg/Fluntern/Zoo area, only SonnenbergStrasse. A "Strasse" is usually open for vehicles (though restrictions may apply). | Quote: | |  | | | With exceptions.
We have such a road to our rustico, we have the right to use it with any vehicles we wish to use.
Tom | | | | | You probably have a "Zubringerdienst gestattet" sign, an excemption for those living there, or an equivalent right.
No idea what that term is in Italian, deepl says it's "servizio di alimentazione consentito" but that sounds like it's about edibles only, which would be false.
| 
18.07.2021, 23:21
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,721
Groaned at 2,627 Times in 1,869 Posts
Thanked 39,826 Times in 18,785 Posts
| | Re: Meaning of empty red circle road sign on wanderweg. Are cyclists allowed? | Quote: | |  | | | You probably have a "Zubringerdienst gestattet" sign, an exception for those living there, or an equivalent right.
No idea what that term is in Italian, deepl says it's "servizio di alimentazione consentito" but that sounds like edibles. | | | | | Nope, just a circle.
The road is a forest road.
And it is written in our deed that we have permenent right of use, confirmed by our lawyer, and the commune.
Tom
| The following 2 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post: | | 
19.07.2021, 07:17
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Bern
Posts: 2,352
Groaned at 442 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 4,936 Times in 1,784 Posts
| | Re: Meaning of empty red circle road sign on wanderweg. Are cyclists allowed?
Very often you will see that sign and below it, there will be another sign that states “Ausgenommen” with a picture of a bicycle - which means you can cycle there.
| 
19.07.2021, 07:53
|  | Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Thalwil
Posts: 1,386
Groaned at 66 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,512 Times in 761 Posts
| | Re: Meaning of empty red circle road sign on wanderweg. Are cyclists allowed? | Quote: | |  | | | Oh shit, I just checked this. No bicycles! and I have ben ignoring these signs for
years | | | | | You mean you never got an angry remark from respectable-looking elderly Swiss people when you did that? You are either lucky or are riding too fast. | 
19.07.2021, 09:06
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Bern
Posts: 2,352
Groaned at 442 Times in 285 Posts
Thanked 4,936 Times in 1,784 Posts
| | Re: Meaning of empty red circle road sign on wanderweg. Are cyclists allowed? | Quote: | |  | | | You mean you never got an angry remark from respectable-looking elderly Swiss people when you did that? You are either lucky or are riding too fast.  | | | | | I get those looks all the time even on paths where I am allowed to ride ... many bad cyclists ruin it for the rest of us & many pedestrians think they own the combined paths. | 
19.07.2021, 11:38
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 3,754
Groaned at 75 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 4,537 Times in 2,076 Posts
| | Re: Meaning of empty red circle road sign on wanderweg. Are cyclists allowed?
The law for this is here: https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1...1961/de#art_18 (unfortunately no English version)
The signals “General driving ban in both directions” and “No entry” do not apply to handcarts with a maximum width of 1 m, prams, wheelchairs, pushed bicycles, and motorcycles and two-wheeled motorcycles that are pushed when the engine is switched off.
| This user would like to thank newtoswitz for this useful post: | | 
19.07.2021, 15:19
|  | Member | | Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Baden - East corner of my sofa
Posts: 246
Groaned at 25 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 224 Times in 129 Posts
| | Re: Meaning of empty red circle road sign on wanderweg. Are cyclists allowed? | Quote: | |  | | | Of course, rules don't apply to cyclists here in Switzerland. | | | | | I am actually very happy that those not able to follow rules are cycling instead of driving a car. Much less dangerous streets, still dangerous, but way less. And more parking spots available.
| This user would like to thank scrabblegrey for this useful post: | | 
19.07.2021, 18:38
| Newbie 1st class | | Join Date: Nov 2019 Location: Shrewsbury
Posts: 12
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts
| | Re: Meaning of empty red circle road sign on wanderweg. Are cyclists allowed? | Quote: | |  | | | beansprouts, can you link a map?
There doesn't seem to be a Sonnenbergweg in the Höngg/Fluntern/Zoo area, only SonnenbergStrasse. A "Strasse" is usually open for vehicles (though restrictions may apply). | | | | | Sorry, I made a mistake with the name. You are right it is sonnenbergstasse. Attached is a map with red circles I dictating where the signs are. They are each single-sided and visible only for people going up the hill, with no equivalent signs at the other ends of each of the routes.
The sign on the main route has another sign underneath allowing access to the Sonnenberg (the farm and holiday place) but no sign for cyclists. I’m happy to accept that the sign means no cyclists, but the question then is exactly which part of the road is covered by the prohibition. If you went up the hill another way and cycled down, you would never know the sign exists. I wonder if I could just ask at the Gemeindehaus.
| This user would like to thank beansprout for this useful post: | | 
19.07.2021, 20:55
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Basel
Posts: 15,041
Groaned at 295 Times in 199 Posts
Thanked 19,131 Times in 8,047 Posts
| | Re: Meaning of empty red circle road sign on wanderweg. Are cyclists allowed?
maybe you can cycle backwards uphill | This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post: | | 
19.07.2021, 21:47
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Aargau
Posts: 8,876
Groaned at 125 Times in 92 Posts
Thanked 6,611 Times in 3,660 Posts
| | Re: Meaning of empty red circle road sign on wanderweg. Are cyclists allowed?
I was always taught that the red empty circle means NO vehicles are allowed. The case in point was once proven when police stopped the cyclist in front of me  (pushed yes but not ridden).
| The following 2 users would like to thank jacek for this useful post: | | 
20.07.2021, 00:26
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SG
Posts: 10,023
Groaned at 579 Times in 419 Posts
Thanked 13,466 Times in 7,000 Posts
| | Re: Meaning of empty red circle road sign on wanderweg. Are cyclists allowed? | Quote: | |  | | | Can anyone who knows more about Swiss signs help me figure out whether you’re allowed to cycle there or not? (I’m hoping the answer is yes, as it would be a great way to cycle to work) | | | | | So, to recap: Your entire initial post (the assumptions therein) is correct. Red circle on white ground means "all vehicles forbidden", though excemptions may apply, e.g. indicated with the addition "Zubringerdienst gestattet" (feeder services permitted), as in your example, also at the north end of Ankenhofstrasse.
However, Regensdorf on the other side of the forest is a different commune, and appears to apply different regulations. They seem to sign, either, "cars and motorbikes forbidden" or "all motorised vehicles forbidden" ( see here), neither bans bicycles.
So yes, it looks like at least some of those bicycles are (or could be) lawfully on "your" road. Which begs the question why you shouldn't mimick them, and either actually enter from the other side, or pretend that you did and shoulder the fine if the police doesn't believe you. Though from your description it doesn't look like the vehicle ban isn't enforced. Given the likely value of the properties in the area, they may decide that it's not worth the trouble.
Yes, of course you could ask at the Gemeindehaus. Personally, I'd start with a local or two, they should also know the actual practice.
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:33. | |