Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Transportation/driving  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22.07.2021, 22:48
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 9
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
nljames has no particular reputation at present
Who have the right of way in this uncontrolled intersection?

I was practicing for my driving test and I came across this situation.

Video:

I came to an intersection where the traffic light on all sides is blinking amber due to road closure from construction. I slowed down, see that there is no car on my right. I proceeded to turn left at the intersection.

Then, immediately after my left turn, there is a merge from the right turn lane from the traffic in the opposite direction.

There is no yield sign on my lane nor the right turn lane.

Who has the priority? Did I cut the black Audi off? (see 0:30)
What should I do in this situation?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22.07.2021, 22:50
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 9
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
nljames has no particular reputation at present
Re: Who have the right of way in this uncontrolled intersection?

Sorry for the video link not working...
Here it is..

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 22.07.2021, 23:02
newtoswitz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Rapperswil
Posts: 3,740
Groaned at 75 Times in 70 Posts
Thanked 4,521 Times in 2,066 Posts
newtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond reputenewtoswitz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who have the right of way in this uncontrolled intersection?

The person to your right did - priority from the right in the absence of any other indication.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank newtoswitz for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 22.07.2021, 23:13
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Basle
Posts: 2,764
Groaned at 72 Times in 57 Posts
Thanked 1,925 Times in 1,112 Posts
Landers has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond reputeLanders has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who have the right of way in this uncontrolled intersection?

The black car deliberately stopped so you did the right thing by carrying on. Quite what the legal aspect is I don't know as can't see much in the video.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 23.07.2021, 00:24
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 8,946
Groaned at 472 Times in 353 Posts
Thanked 11,896 Times in 6,184 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who have the right of way in this uncontrolled intersection?

Quote:
View Post
The person to your right did - priority from the right in the absence of any other indication.
My assessment as well.

Am I the only one who's uncomfortable watching this? I feel like he's clearly driving too fast. Can't be fast video playback (only), the two bumps are rather strong.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 23.07.2021, 07:02
AbFab's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 8,231
Groaned at 347 Times in 237 Posts
Thanked 12,004 Times in 4,119 Posts
AbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond reputeAbFab has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who have the right of way in this uncontrolled intersection?

Quote:
View Post
My assessment as well.

Am I the only one who's uncomfortable watching this? I feel like he's clearly driving too fast. Can't be fast video playback (only), the two bumps are rather strong.
It's the camera lens. Dashcam footage always seems too fast...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank AbFab for this useful post:
This user groans at AbFab for this post:
  #7  
Old 23.07.2021, 07:59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Basel
Posts: 284
Groaned at 200 Times in 78 Posts
Thanked 457 Times in 203 Posts
FairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond reputeFairDinkum has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who have the right of way in this uncontrolled intersection?

Quote:
View Post
The person to your right did - priority from the right in the absence of any other indication.
I dont understand this

To me, it looks nljames did the right thing turning at the intersection, only because the black car did not continue -straight but they are turning .

If the black car was to go straight then nljames should've stopped and turn only when safe. ?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 23.07.2021, 08:04
fatmanfilms's Avatar
The Marmite Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 20,999
Groaned at 449 Times in 343 Posts
Thanked 22,278 Times in 11,530 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who have the right of way in this uncontrolled intersection?

Quote:
View Post
It's the camera lens. Dashcam footage always seems too fast...
Thats because it's a wide angle lens, so a small movement of the camera is amplified
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 23.07.2021, 09:39
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 13,251
Groaned at 216 Times in 191 Posts
Thanked 19,326 Times in 7,865 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who have the right of way in this uncontrolled intersection?

It looks to me like the black car had priority. He only stopped because he could see you were not going to. But he didn't sound his horn, so obviously he wasn't too put out.

Priority to the right is a pain, and I'm sure we've all cut someone up in the same way accidentally, at least once. I'd rather the authorities invested in some white paint and give way signs!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 23.07.2021, 09:58
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 9
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
nljames has no particular reputation at present
Re: Who have the right of way in this uncontrolled intersection?

Thanks for all the reply.

Alright, I got it. The black car has priority and I should have stopped for the black car. I will do so when I got in this situation again.

Normally, this is an intersection where if the left turning lane is green, the right turning lane will be red and vice versa. There is no situation like this. Hence, no yield sign on neither side, but due to construction, all the traffic lights are blinking amber

For the speed, the road where there is construction has a speed limit of 60. I was doing around 40 due to the construction. At the intersection, I was about 30 and slowed down more when entering the new road (which you can hear the electric motor whir) and I can stop in time if that black car has decided to continue.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 23.07.2021, 10:50
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Luzern
Posts: 508
Groaned at 32 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 648 Times in 315 Posts
nejc has an excellent reputationnejc has an excellent reputationnejc has an excellent reputationnejc has an excellent reputation
Re: Who have the right of way in this uncontrolled intersection?

I don't see why the black car wouldn't have a priority:
a) you are turning left, you have to yield to oncoming traffic
b) there is a slight confusion as the road is partially divided by pavement, in theory the other road could have a sign that they don't have priority, but they do not.

The black car stopped as he was confused, as option b) is quite common. Btw. if you look at your video at 0:27, in case of turning right, you would have a sign that you do not have priority.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 23.07.2021, 12:15
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ticino
Posts: 2,963
Groaned at 93 Times in 65 Posts
Thanked 3,831 Times in 1,533 Posts
Snoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond reputeSnoopy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who have the right of way in this uncontrolled intersection?

Often, at intersections like this one, the black car will have a "give way" triangle. However, in this case, I don't see one. Also, there are no "Toblerone" markings on the ground.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 23.07.2021, 12:30
Castro's Avatar
à la mod
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZG
Posts: 5,586
Groaned at 117 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 16,656 Times in 5,304 Posts
Castro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond reputeCastro has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who have the right of way in this uncontrolled intersection?

Who else thinks that they would never pass a driving test today?
I passed my test in the UK (2nd attempt) in 1997, and if anything I've picked up more bad habits and today drive more by gut instinct than anything else. Some of the more cryptic Swiss road signs mean nothing to me
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 23.07.2021, 12:35
MusicChick's Avatar
modified, reprogrammed and doctored²
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: La Cote
Posts: 17,292
Groaned at 394 Times in 270 Posts
Thanked 19,994 Times in 10,412 Posts
MusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond reputeMusicChick has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who have the right of way in this uncontrolled intersection?

My foot's still too heavy , the cop that passed me guessed right that I play piano and sew. I like driving here where people drive courteously. It makes me useless as a driver back in the old land, where bad driving and beer drinking have become national sports.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 23.07.2021, 14:16
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Zürich
Posts: 170
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 138 Times in 72 Posts
rezak has earned some respectrezak has earned some respect
Re: Who have the right of way in this uncontrolled intersection?

Quote:
View Post
I dont understand this

To me, it looks nljames did the right thing turning at the intersection, only because the black car did not continue -straight but they are turning .

If the black car was to go straight then nljames should've stopped and turn only when safe. ?
It does not really matter who was turning and where (in this specific case, since there are no signs of any type), only the trajectory of collision matters: At 0:34 the trajectory of OP's car and black car were colliding, black car would've hit OP's right side - so black car had the right of way.
If black car was going straight - it would've been exactly identical situation, does not matter whether the other car hits you 90 degrees perpendicular or if it scratches your door at a light angle because roads are merging, right side is right side.

Given that, it is easy to see why OP did the mistake (very often the black's car road would have the yeild sign) and the edge cases of right-side rule can be very tricky, since it is hard to see sometimes what signs the other road has. Both drivers used some common sense and nothing bad happened
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 23.07.2021, 16:13
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 13,251
Groaned at 216 Times in 191 Posts
Thanked 19,326 Times in 7,865 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who have the right of way in this uncontrolled intersection?

Quote:
View Post
Btw. if you look at your video at 0:27, in case of turning right, you would have a sign that you do not have priority.
Not the case. Often there is no sign. In those cases you have to know that priority is to the right.

I love one French village. They have a big electronic sign warning that priority is to the right at the next junction. Again - a bit of paint and a give way sign? Got to be cheaper!

Interestingly the same law exists in the UK (as priority to the left). But they've decided aforesaid paint and signs is largely better. Except on the moors. Then we just both stop, both signal the other driver to go and collide in the middle.
__________________
Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 23.07.2021, 19:13
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 8,946
Groaned at 472 Times in 353 Posts
Thanked 11,896 Times in 6,184 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Who have the right of way in this uncontrolled intersection?

Quote:
View Post
If the black car was to go straight then nljames should've stopped and turn only when safe. ?
Correct, but you're too early (and that lane is blocked anyway ATM because OP's is a temporaty one-way). OP's question applies to the "joining" behind the rails.
Quote:
View Post
For the speed, the road where there is construction has a speed limit of 60. I was doing around 40 due to the construction. At the intersection, I was about 30 and slowed down more when entering the new road (which you can hear the electric motor whir) and I can stop in time if that black car has decided to continue.
Thanks for explaining. Wow!

In a test situation with blinking yellow lights, how do you check early enough for lowered railbars?
You need to stop before entering the crossing, i.e. at the across white bar by the traffic light.
The red flashing rail light may do, but it's probably easier to check if the railbars are upright in the air, and doable from further afar. That should give you more time to react, and you'll have removed one unknown from the equation when you enter the crossings.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 23.07.2021, 21:06
otec's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Swiss
Posts: 148
Groaned at 43 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 109 Times in 58 Posts
otec has no particular reputation at present
Re: Who have the right of way in this uncontrolled intersection?

Quote:
View Post
My assessment as well.

Am I the only one who's uncomfortable watching this? I feel like he's clearly driving too fast. Can't be fast video playback (only), the two bumps are rather strong.
I would be twice fast that, the Audi is a typical Swiss guy who doesn't know how to drive.

I would show him middle finger, that's the only thing OP did wrong in this situation
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 24.07.2021, 16:10
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Vaud
Posts: 242
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 103 Times in 73 Posts
Gravity is considered knowledgeableGravity is considered knowledgeableGravity is considered knowledgeable
Re: Who have the right of way in this uncontrolled intersection?

Quote:
View Post
In a test situation with blinking yellow lights, how do you check early enough for lowered railbars?
You need to stop before entering the crossing, i.e. at the across white bar by the traffic light.
The red flashing rail light may do, but it's probably easier to check if the railbars are upright in the air, and doable from further afar. That should give you more time to react, and you'll have removed one unknown from the equation when you enter the crossings.
It made me think, shouldn't you stop before a railbar when the traffic lights are yellow-blinking or completely off? It seems to be like with any situation were the railway cross the road, one shouldn't trust the railbar but stop, make sure there's no train coming, and only then go

BTW, on youtube you can use the setting icon an change the playback speed if it's too fast to watch, or too slow
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 25.07.2021, 00:05
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Lausanne
Posts: 9
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
nljames has no particular reputation at present
Re: Who have the right of way in this uncontrolled intersection.

Quote:
View Post
Thanks for explaining. Wow!

In a test situation with blinking yellow lights, how do you check early enough for lowered railbars?
You need to stop before entering the crossing, i.e. at the across white bar by the traffic light.
The red flashing rail light may do, but it's probably easier to check if the railbars are upright in the air, and doable from further afar. That should give you more time to react, and you'll have removed one unknown from the equation when you enter the crossings.
In the video I showed you, I must admit that I didn’t realize the right turning lane has no yield sign (because it looks like highway merging which usually has a yield sign on their side.) So I only checked for the railroad crossing and the car on my right at the intersection, both are clear so I proceeded and I was surprised by the merging from the right that I didn’t see the yield sign anywhere on their lane.

In this case of blinking yellow light at the intersection, I will not proceed beyond the stop line if I cannot cross to the road that I want to enter safely, in one go.

If I knew that there are cars turning right and they have priority, I would wait at the stop line of the intersection and proceed when all 3 conditions (railroad crossing, priority to the right at the intersection, and right turning lane) are cleared.

However, this is just my word. I will ask my driving instructor on my next lesson.

Also, this intersection is quite dangerous with all of these factor and without a working traffic light. Fortunately, this road is not in the test route, this is just me driving back from practicing the test route. But it is useful to know what would be the correct course of action to do in this scenario.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Central Apartment on a busy Intersection/ road in Zurich locomo Property wanted 3 22.02.2018 21:50
What kind of rule applies to this particular intersection? bulaohu Transportation/driving 9 01.12.2011 09:17


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:17.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0