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  #21  
Old 17.08.2021, 08:25
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Re: Lease or buy a car?

So far I have found 0.9% leasing on Mercedes-Benz and BMW


My wife gets a corporate discount up to 25%, this is quite an interesting deal all together.



Any other 1% or less lease finances out there? I didn't find anything else so far.
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  #22  
Old 17.08.2021, 08:44
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Re: Lease or buy a car?

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Hum afaik warranty doesn't usually cover annual maintenance.

I mean that under certain circumstances, it's possible to not lose (sometimes even earn) money when selling the car. For example:
You buy a well optioned sport car with a street price of 100K. You got a 30% fleet discount as some do (price is 70K). You sell it a year after with 15K km for 75K. If the delivery time is 6 months+ as sometimes the case nowadays, value might increase even more.

For personal/auto credit? For leasing you can get 0%.


Don't waste your time and theirs, it's not possible. Only possibility is transferring it to someone else.
Can you give an example with links of a “well optioned sport car” that you can get a 30% discount on that is still worth 75% of its RRP to a private seller at 12 months old please?

It is possible to pay up your lease early. There’s normally a table in the contract that shows some sort of monthly calculation for how much it will cost. I know it works, as I wrote a car off and the insurance value was more than the outstanding lease, so they paid me some money back.

I’ve seen 0% deals on Toyotas and perhaps Nissan and I think Seat before.
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  #23  
Old 17.08.2021, 09:26
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Re: Lease or buy a car?

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Don't waste your time and theirs, it's not possible. Only possibility is transferring it to someone else.
You can absolutely buy out a leased car whenever you like. It just doesn't make much sense to do so before the half-time mark because of the penalties.
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Old 17.08.2021, 09:36
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Re: Lease or buy a car?

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The other advantage is that you can deduct all interest expenses including leasing to further reduce your taxable income. So bear in mind that interest expenses needs to be take into account from a tax perspective
No, as I said earlier, you cannot. You can however when you purchase a car with a personal loan.

https://www.beobachter.ch/geld/steue...uer%20abziehen.
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Old 17.08.2021, 10:24
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Re: Lease or buy a car?

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I am thinking of buying a new car but I have dilemma of how taking it? Until now every car I owned I was just buying it cash or loan. Here in Switzerland the guy in the car company advised me to lease it instead of buying it cash and he also told me that most of the Swiss are leasing their cars.
Anyone has heard something? Would you recommend to buy or lease it?
Thank everybody in advance!
The majority of the Swiss buy their cars, not lease them. I've seen this in the insurance statistics.

We have friends who have done the maths - some are adamant that it is cheaper with leasing, others say the same about buying.

We recently bought a new car and tried to do the maths ourselves. Through my employer, I was able to get a 30% discount off the purchase price, so then it was a no-brainer to buy instead of lease.
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Old 17.08.2021, 10:32
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Re: Lease or buy a car?

It will very much depend on the car, or more accurately the purchase price.

For cheaper cars the comprehensive insurance is a significant part of the cost calculation and if you don't want the coverage then it can be worth it.

For more expensive cars where comprehensive insurance is not that big in relative terms so it changes thing a bit.

All else being equal the only actual difference between buying and leasing are opportunity cost vs interest charges and each will be different to everyone's circumstances.
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  #27  
Old 17.08.2021, 10:51
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Re: Lease or buy a car?

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Can you give an example with links of a “well optioned sport car” that you can get a 30% discount on that is still worth 75% of its RRP to a private seller at 12 months old please?
So what you are asking is for a car that you can sell for a profit at 12 months of driving it?

30% discount is easy. Even without a fleet discount, you can buy a new M4 with 30% off: https://dealer.bmw.ch/binelligroup-baar/de/bmw-m4-coupe

Cars that will rise in value are unlikely to be offered with a discount, nor have any kind of fleet discount. (Porsche GT cars, any mid engine Ferrari, Pagani, Koenigsegg etc)

Unless you have some big bucks you are not going to make money on cars.
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  #28  
Old 17.08.2021, 11:07
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Re: Lease or buy a car?

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The majority of the Swiss buy their cars, not lease them. I've seen this in the insurance statistics.

We have friends who have done the maths - some are adamant that it is cheaper with leasing, others say the same about buying.

We recently bought a new car and tried to do the maths ourselves. Through my employer, I was able to get a 30% discount off the purchase price, so then it was a no-brainer to buy instead of lease.
You are correct.

However, you also get the employer discount when you lease the car, so what was the deciding factor that made it a no-brainer for you?
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  #29  
Old 17.08.2021, 11:38
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Re: Lease or buy a car?

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So what you are asking is for a car that you can sell for a profit at 12 months of driving it?

30% discount is easy. Even without a fleet discount, you can buy a new M4 with 30% off: https://dealer.bmw.ch/binelligroup-baar/de/bmw-m4-coupe

Cars that will rise in value are unlikely to be offered with a discount, nor have any kind of fleet discount. (Porsche GT cars, any mid engine Ferrari, Pagani, Koenigsegg etc)

Unless you have some big bucks you are not going to make money on cars.
Nearly right… I‘m asking the person I quoted to provide one. I‘ve bought cars new with over a 30% discount, but I was under no illusions it wouldn’t depreciate and I understand the concept of a bid-ask spread.

I would dispute (in Switzerland) your list of cars which increase in value. I can‘t comment on Pagani or Koenigsegg, but GT3s do depreciate albeit slowly, as do mid-engine Ferraris unless they are limited editions, but that is a relatively new phenomenon. Sometimes if you get in very early with a new model and sell relatively soon you can make some money, but you need to have a very good relationship with the dealer, which has probably cost you a great deal of money in the past.

Even the 718 Spyder in my profile picture has depreciated around 25% in 18 months, if I estimate what the dealer would pay for it, based on advertised prices. The curve does seem to be flattening now though. Definitely no discounts on that although there was a Euro translation saving. Still far more expensive than the rest of Europe to buy though.
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  #30  
Old 17.08.2021, 12:01
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Re: Lease or buy a car?

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Nearly right… I‘m asking the person I quoted to provide one. I‘ve bought cars new with over a 30% discount, but I was under no illusions it wouldn’t depreciate and I understand the concept of a bid-ask spread.

I would dispute (in Switzerland) your list of cars which increase in value. I can‘t comment on Pagani or Koenigsegg, but GT3s do depreciate albeit slowly, as do mid-engine Ferraris unless they are limited editions, but that is a relatively new phenomenon. Sometimes if you get in very early with a new model and sell relatively soon you can make some money, but you need to have a very good relationship with the dealer, which has probably cost you a great deal of money in the past.

Even the 718 Spyder in my profile picture has depreciated around 25% in 18 months, if I estimate what the dealer would pay for it, based on advertised prices. The curve does seem to be flattening now though. Definitely no discounts on that although there was a Euro translation saving. Still far more expensive than the rest of Europe to buy though.
Interesting and spot on about being friends with dealerships.

How come 718 is more expensive in CH ? Shouldnt it be the other way around ?
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  #31  
Old 17.08.2021, 12:11
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Re: Lease or buy a car?

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Nearly right… I‘m asking the person I quoted to provide one. I‘ve bought cars new with over a 30% discount, but I was under no illusions it wouldn’t depreciate and I understand the concept of a bid-ask spread.

I would dispute (in Switzerland) your list of cars which increase in value. I can‘t comment on Pagani or Koenigsegg, but GT3s do depreciate albeit slowly, as do mid-engine Ferraris unless they are limited editions, but that is a relatively new phenomenon. Sometimes if you get in very early with a new model and sell relatively soon you can make some money, but you need to have a very good relationship with the dealer, which has probably cost you a great deal of money in the past.

Even the 718 Spyder in my profile picture has depreciated around 25% in 18 months, if I estimate what the dealer would pay for it, based on advertised prices. The curve does seem to be flattening now though. Definitely no discounts on that although there was a Euro translation saving. Still far more expensive than the rest of Europe to buy though.
Yes, this is a good assessment and more accurate than my more general assessment. GT3 Touring may be an exception, with values of the 991.2 going crazy at the moment. (I'm still kicking myself for missing out on one at CHF175K at my main dealer. White with rear tinted glass was a bit of a deal breaker though)
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  #32  
Old 17.08.2021, 14:03
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Re: Lease or buy a car?

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You are correct.

However, you also get the employer discount when you lease the car, so what was the deciding factor that made it a no-brainer for you?
In my case, the 30% employer discount was only for purchasing with this particular car maker, not for leasing.

Perhaps the car dealer would have still offered the 30% discount if we really wanted to lease the car, but we were leaning more towards buying anyway.
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  #33  
Old 17.08.2021, 17:10
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Re: Lease or buy a car?

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Yes, this is a good assessment and more accurate than my more general assessment. GT3 Touring may be an exception, with values of the 991.2 going crazy at the moment. (I'm still kicking myself for missing out on one at CHF175K at my main dealer. White with rear tinted glass was a bit of a deal breaker though)
When I did a quick trawl of GT3s earlier, I saw some Tourings in the low 200s. That‘s below list isn‘t it?

I can beat that. My friend had my dream car and was leaving Switzerland. He offered it to me at a decent price for a quick sale, but I couldn‘t justify it. The car was a F430 Scuderia 16M with an opening offer of CHF 220k. Their price has cooled off a bit since their peak, but they are being offered at CHF 295k and up on AutoScout24.
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  #34  
Old 17.08.2021, 17:12
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Re: Lease or buy a car?

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In my case, the 30% employer discount was only for purchasing with this particular car maker, not for leasing.

Perhaps the car dealer would have still offered the 30% discount if we really wanted to lease the car, but we were leaning more towards buying anyway.
In the UK if you want the biggest discount you have to take the dealer financing. There‘s plenty of profit to be made from financing, so I‘d be surprised if you wouldn‘t have also got the discount if you wanted to take a lease.
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  #35  
Old 17.08.2021, 17:15
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Re: Lease or buy a car?

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Interesting and spot on about being friends with dealerships.

How come 718 is more expensive in CH ? Shouldnt it be the other way around ?
It‘s not just the 718, it‘s cars generally. Cars are priced at what the market will bear. Switzerland will bear higher costs than e.g. the UK or Germany. NB this is comparing markets that aren‘t distorted by huge purchase taxes like the Netherlands or Ireland.
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  #36  
Old 18.08.2021, 12:11
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Re: Lease or buy a car?

Since there are some knowledgeable people on the thread:

How come dealers are able to offer a new car at 25% discount? My understanding is that margins are much lower than that for dealerships.


For example, I am in the market for a replacement commercial vehicle:

https://www.buetikofer-garagen.ch/de...2&frameIndex=0


This van is brand-new, with 1km on the clock and is sold at ca. 25% discount. Manually entering all options into the Ford configurator, it comes out substantially more expensive.
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  #37  
Old 18.08.2021, 12:52
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Re: Lease or buy a car?

discounts are available on anything. even cars with a waiting list or limited edition cars aren't openly available.

as for leasing it can make sense in two cases.

1 as a lower bound on value when depreciation is unclear due to a new model imminently due but not yet seen. in this case if you can negotiate a good residual it has some value.

2 for 'german taxi' style cars such as big mercs and bmws. these drop like a stone but the manufacturer essentially subsidizes the lease residual and buys back for well over market price.

I guess also if your future cashflows are more than you current disposable funds it makes sense too.
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  #38  
Old 18.08.2021, 15:09
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Re: Lease or buy a car?

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When I did a quick trawl of GT3s earlier, I saw some Tourings in the low 200s. That‘s below list isn‘t it?
Not sure what the list was, but the 992 Touring is CHF210K list (without options, albeit), so I'm guessing at list or slightly above, which is not bad for a 3 odd year car

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I can beat that. My friend had my dream car and was leaving Switzerland. He offered it to me at a decent price for a quick sale, but I couldn‘t justify it. The car was a F430 Scuderia 16M with an opening offer of CHF 220k.
Love the Scud and considered it also and prices have definitely softened and it's a bit of a bargain for a special edition? (Perhaps the gearbox?)
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  #39  
Old 19.08.2021, 15:47
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Re: Lease or buy a car?

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Cars that will rise in value are unlikely to be offered with a discount, nor have any kind of fleet discount. (Porsche GT cars, any mid engine Ferrari, Pagani, Koenigsegg etc)
My cousing bougth a BMW Z8 with a steep discount back in the day... because they werent that good and didnt really sell that well. If you see what those are going for these days will he surely regret selling it... and the trick is to predict the future Z8s ;-)
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  #40  
Old 19.08.2021, 17:23
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Re: Lease or buy a car?

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My cousing bougth a BMW Z8 with a steep discount back in the day... because they werent that good and didnt really sell that well. If you see what those are going for these days will he surely regret selling it... and the trick is to predict the future Z8s ;-)
Z8 are the most beautiful BMW for a long time. However, their rarity makes them extremely overpriced.
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