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Old 08.10.2021, 16:54
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Appeal or not appeal (red light)?

I got a 250 CHF fine.
My wife is pretty sure that she remembers what happened. A pedestrian crossed in front of her (when they could not), so she had to brake in order not to hit them. At that point she resumed driving and was flashed.


There are clearly a number of ways in which this could still be her fault: maybe from the place where she had to stop she could still see the traffic light, and she should have waited there, for example. Maybe the traffic light was red even before the pedestrian crossed the road (although I would find this unlikely, they wrote that the traffic light was red for 3.3 seconds at that time, and that would have been quite a thing to notice).


Question is: is it worth it to appeal? Suppose the appeal is rejected (maybe the pedestrian is not even in the photo), what is the extra cost because of the appeal?
Any experience with that?



Thanks!
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Old 08.10.2021, 16:58
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Re: Appeal or not appeal (red light)?

Just pay it and move on...
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Old 08.10.2021, 17:19
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Re: Appeal or not appeal (red light)?

Just pay the fine. Pedestrians are unfortunately pretty much free to do as they please unless the police is physically there to catch them out. Based on what I've observed with people who couldn't just accept a fine that was legitimate, you'll only end up with more costs.
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Old 08.10.2021, 17:33
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Re: Appeal or not appeal (red light)?

Why are you paying the fine when it appears that your wife was driving?

Fines are intended to punish the guilty and not innocent bystanders.
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Old 08.10.2021, 17:53
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Re: Appeal or not appeal (red light)?

Pay and
And remember that contesting can lead to charges being added
https://www.englishforum.ch/transpor...red-light.html
E.g. speed and run red light... run red light and endanger pedestrian... do not test their imagination.
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Old 08.10.2021, 18:14
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Re: Appeal or not appeal (red light)?

She ran a red light and got a SFr. 250 fine. Not much to contest.
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Old 08.10.2021, 18:48
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Re: Appeal or not appeal (red light)?

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Why are you paying the fine when it appears that your wife was driving?

Fines are intended to punish the guilty and not innocent bystanders.
Some of us have what are called relationships, whereby we don't have "my money, their money", just "our money". It works quite well.
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Old 08.10.2021, 18:49
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Re: Appeal or not appeal (red light)?

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Some of us have what are called relationships, whereby we don't have "my money, their money", just "our money". It works quite well.
And a car that both drive.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 08.10.2021 at 19:01.
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Old 08.10.2021, 18:54
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Re: Appeal or not appeal (red light)?

OP,

Why on Earth would you even consider wasting your time and energy (even ignoring the money factor) contesting a CHF 250.- fine? It was a traffic incident, and your wife got caught. Do you think that the police forensics will go back looking for skid traces, or shoe prints mixed with DNA that can somehow prove, through some amazing new technology your wife’s version of events?

No, thought not. You will most likely just be ridiculed if you try to contest it.

But, at the end of the day, the choice is really yours.
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Old 08.10.2021, 19:10
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Re: Appeal or not appeal (red light)?

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.... they wrote that the traffic light was red for 3.3 seconds at that time...
In that case, they have exact evidence that the car was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'd think there's nothing to contest. If you try, it will, as others have said, probably cost you administrative fees, on top of the fine.
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Old 08.10.2021, 19:18
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Re: Appeal or not appeal (red light)?

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Why are you paying the fine when it appears that your wife was driving?

Fines are intended to punish the guilty and not innocent bystanders.
I pay all Mrs Parkers fines, and she makes me an awesome spaghetti bolognese. We have it at least once every couple of months.
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Old 08.10.2021, 20:06
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Re: Appeal or not appeal (red light)?

Thanks for the lighthearted replies, it makes the fine easier to swallow


Some replies in random order:
- I "pay the fine" because I am the one in the couple that remembers the postfinance password. She earns about three times what I earn, that's why I am here on EF chatting with you.
- To clarify the situation, I am 99.9% sure that the traffic light turned red after she had already passed the line. So it was green, and the intersection in front of her was empty, there was no way to predict that a person would jump in the middle of the road and prevent her from clearing the intersection in time.
- Despite what ZuriRollt thinks, I was not expecting forensic analysis, I suspect the photo would simply show a guy in the middle of the street, out of any pedestrian crossing, blocking the car's way.
- I don't think anybody is "ridiculed if [they] try to contest [a fine]." I once received a fine for parking in a blue zone but forgetting the yearly pass in the glove box. I went to the police station and the policeman wrote a two-line appeal for me on the back of the fine. I later received a letter from the judge explaining me that having the pass is not enough, it needs to be clearly visible. A very kind letter. And he canceled the fine.
- I am aware of the extra admin fees, I just needed to hear it once more. I will not contest the fine and forget about that.


Cheers!
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Old 08.10.2021, 20:18
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Re: Appeal or not appeal (red light)?

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OP,

Why on Earth would you even consider wasting your time and energy (even ignoring the money factor) contesting a CHF 250.- fine? It was a traffic incident, and your wife got caught. Do you think that the police forensics will go back looking for skid traces, or shoe prints mixed with DNA that can somehow prove, through some amazing new technology your wife’s version of events?

No, thought not. You will most likely just be ridiculed if you try to contest it.

But, at the end of the day, the choice is really yours.
Same about your groan (now removed), as I‘d given you green rep for your last post - thought that it was meant in jest. Oh well, think that I‘ll survive…

Last edited by ZuriRollt; 08.10.2021 at 23:28. Reason: An update - am sick of all the bullying
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Old 08.10.2021, 20:26
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Re: Appeal or not appeal (red light)?

ZuriRollt

I thought your post came across pretty harsh too.
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Old 08.10.2021, 20:34
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Re: Appeal or not appeal (red light)?

It‘s quite amazing, in just that „good-will“ period after many of us had given-up on EF, how many EFers I‘ve had to put back on my „ignore list“ again. Names not mentioned, but you won‘t be able to groan or bad rep me again.

It‘s been equally amazing, that during this, extremely short „breathing period“, how many EFers have returned. And they neither groan, nor bed rep me. The reps are insignificant, but it’s the comments that accompany them that are simply the worst of the worst.

EF became, for a very, very short period, a good place to interact on with others living in the same or similar circumstances.

That is clearly over.
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Old 08.10.2021, 21:28
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Re: Appeal or not appeal (red light)?

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Thanks for the lighthearted replies, it makes the fine easier to swallow
I got a red light ticket in ZH a few years ago and it was definitely green. I had brain freeze at the intersection because there were 3-4 different exits and it wasn't obvious from my satnav which one to take so I slowed to a crawl to try and figure it out <Flash>

I thought the camera probably takes two pictures so it'll be clear that I had crossed on green. I was wrong, it takes one photo as explained to me by an officer from Zurich Police. He seemed to empathise and agreed it was unfair, but told me to consider it a small payment to enjoy the beautiful city of Zurich.

Charming thieves
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Old 08.10.2021, 21:50
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Re: Appeal or not appeal (red light)?

I was fined a few years back for going past a red 4.6 seconds after it changed. To this day I am certain I did not as at least cross-traffic would have been on the move but I just coughed up... It was the camera(s) near Bahnhof Enge and I was well aware of their presence for years.
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Old 08.10.2021, 22:07
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Re: Appeal or not appeal (red light)?

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I was fined a few years back for going past a red 4.6 seconds after it changed. To this day I am certain I did not as at least cross-traffic would have been on the move but I just coughed up... It was the camera(s) near Bahnhof Enge and I was well aware of their presence for years.
The one at Bahnhof Enge has been a favorite since years. Who the hell understands it

Got through on the hair of my teeth many times - pedestrian crossings, tram crossings, road traffic crossings, traffic access to your right or left rights - a challenge
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Old 09.10.2021, 00:10
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Re: Appeal or not appeal (red light)?

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- To clarify the situation, I am 99.9% sure that the traffic light turned red after she had already passed the line. So it was green, and the intersection in front of her was empty, there was no way to predict that a person would jump in the middle of the road and prevent her from clearing the intersection in time.
The entire orange phase, plus the 3.3secs red, would mean she took something like 8-10 seconds [plus any green time] to stop and get across. That doesn't sound like it was still green at all, in reality it sounds like it was deep dark yellow when she crossed the light (anybody crossing when green/yellow will be 100.0% certain anyways).

You are to take yellow as red and stop. Thus she shouldn't have entered the crossings in the first place. Whether she had to stop for a pedestrian is merely a consequence of this first error.

So yes, pay.
And be thankful nothing serious happened, like she running over the pedestrian she managed to stop for, and consider it a relatively inexpensive lesson for the many green traffic lights she has yet to cross.

Or don't pay, confessing that she crossed on yellow, and risk being prosecuted for endangering a pedestrian on a pedestrian strip after her failure to stop at the dark-yellow traffic light.
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Old 09.10.2021, 16:03
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Re: Appeal or not appeal (red light)?

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endangering a pedestrian on a pedestrian strip after her failure to stop at the dark-yellow traffic light.

The pedestrian was not on the strip, he was crossing the intersection diagonally.


I paid but all this forensic is wasted time. First because it's clearly based on mere speculation, second because I would never report the lesson from an internet stranger to her. She is a great driver, with a great streak of no accidents, no fines, and courteous behavior on the road. She is not "lucky" that a pedestrian was not hit, as you suggested. She is paying a fine because she is a careful driver, she always keeps an eye on the sidewalk, and so she stopped even if the pedestrian should not have been there.
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