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-   -   Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022 (https://www.englishforum.ch/transportation-driving/309156-swiss-cancels-flights-summer-2022-a.html)

roegner 08.06.2022 11:31

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JackieH (Post 3415200)
Got friends coming over from San Fran, flying back from GVA next week- fingers crossed.

Seeing that it was announced to take effect in July, that flight should be ok.

Axa 08.06.2022 11:32

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JackieH (Post 3415200)
Got friends coming over from San Fran, flying back from GVA next week- fingers crossed.

No worries, they can just drive :D

Belgianmum 08.06.2022 11:37

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JackieH (Post 3415200)
Got friends coming over from San Fran, flying back from GVA next week- fingers crossed.

The cancelled flights were for July and august and for Zurich not Geneva so they should be fine.
Unless of course it is with a different airline.

bowlie 08.06.2022 11:43

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JackieH (Post 3415200)
Got friends coming over from San Fran, flying back from GVA next week- fingers crossed.

likely LX will find them a flight on one of their partners probably involving a connection somewhere.

greenmount 08.06.2022 14:03

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
It's funny, for me it got cheaper to travel back home. Haven't booked anything yet but it's good to know.

Treverus 08.06.2022 14:51

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kiwiguy08 (Post 3415179)
Its an own goal by many of these airlines that for no forced reason required their employees to be vaccinated. Now we are seeing the chickens come home to roost. (Swiss, United, American come to mind)

Any source at all to substantiate your claim that it has anything to do with covid vaccines? I know a stewardess and for her it was pretty simple: they have a low base salary and get paid for every flight shift they work on top of that. No flights = very low income. So a lot left to better paid jobs during the two years of pandemic... and I cant blame them. Once they are gone they are gone... and training new ones will take time. Letting them go so easily with a total disregard of their situation before is purely mismanagement and nothing else.

It's the same as the missing truck drivers or airport ground staff: we dont have an employment crisis - we simply had two years with a lot of time to think and revisit how we want to live... so some of the more crappy jobs suddenly find it harder to source new willing idiots to do the job.

minimimi 08.06.2022 16:03

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 3415261)
Any source at all to substantiate your claim that it has anything to do with covid vaccines? I know a stewardess and for her it was pretty simple: they have a low base salary and get paid for every flight shift they work on top of that. No flights = very low income. So a lot left to better paid jobs during the two years of pandemic... and I cant blame them. Once they are gone they are gone... and training new ones will take time. Letting them go so easily with a total disregard of their situation before is purely mismanagement and nothing else.

It's the same as the missing truck drivers or airport ground staff: we dont have an employment crisis - we simply had two years with a lot of time to think and revisit how we want to live... so some of the more crappy jobs suddenly find it harder to source new willing idiots to do the job.

While it totally makes sense for people to move to a job with better conditions (and they should imo) I think it would have been very difficult for Swiss to continue paying higher salaries. It is a low margins business and Swiss has high costs (relatively high pilot and steward salaries due to local market conditions). They may need to either employ from outside of Switzerland or become unprofitable and let the other companies fill in the space.

Treverus 08.06.2022 16:07

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by minimimi (Post 3415272)
While it totally makes sense for people to move to a job with better conditions (and they should imo) I think it would have been very difficult for Swiss to continue paying higher salaries. It is a low margins business and Swiss has high costs (relatively high pilot and steward salaries due to local market conditions). They may need to either employ from outside of Switzerland or become unprofitable and let the other companies fill in the space.

There is a third alternative: You can also just cancel some flights if you need to :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

GParker 08.06.2022 17:08

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by minimimi (Post 3415272)
...... Swiss has high costs (relatively high pilot and steward salaries due to local market conditions). They may need to either employ from outside of Switzerland .......


Do Swiss have high costs though? Are their top of the page employment costs higher than say Lufthansa DE or Air France? I doubt it.

MattyRedSox 08.06.2022 17:13

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 3415261)
Any source at all to substantiate your claim that it has anything to do with covid vaccines? I know a stewardess and for her it was pretty simple: they have a low base salary and get paid for every flight shift they work on top of that. No flights = very low income. So a lot left to better paid jobs during the two years of pandemic... and I cant blame them. Once they are gone they are gone... and training new ones will take time. Letting them go so easily with a total disregard of their situation before is purely mismanagement and nothing else.

It's the same as the missing truck drivers or airport ground staff: we dont have an employment crisis - we simply had two years with a lot of time to think and revisit how we want to live... so some of the more crappy jobs suddenly find it harder to source new willing idiots to do the job.

<applause>

It really is this, isn’t it?

If companies want employees, they need to value them and pay them their worth.

This is why in the post-COVID world, I’m generally not too upset when I find a place short staffed, a delivery misses the deadline, or if a cashier is slow, I don’t fault them. We, too, get what we pay for. The reality is that life is changing and for those who long to return to a pre COVID status, good luck, it’s not going to happen.

And hopefully, over time, the changes become better for most people, both the employees and those who need their services. Yes, it sucks when personally affected, but in the big picture, pretty much most issues we have in Switzerland are very first world problems.

Blaming any business that was sensible enough to do their best to protect employees and their customers (and their bottom line) by requiring that their employees meet certain standards of hygiene and healthcare is ridiculous.

bowlie 08.06.2022 17:29

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Well a big problem is that you canít hire pilots, flight engineers, cabin crew, flight dispatchers, certified aircraft mechanics, NDT experts, etc. off the street and expect them to be on the job within a week. Even more mundane jobs such as baggage handlers, fuelers, wing walkers and cleaners need a security check and training before they can be turned loose at the airport.

These skills need to be maintained (pilots need to fly a minimum number of hours a month to stay current) and verified.

The absolute boom in demand has caught everyone in the industry with their trousers down. Itís going to be quite a while until things return to normal, if it ever happens.

But one thing is certain, flying is going to become more expensive, much more expensive.

Axa 08.06.2022 17:36

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bowlie (Post 3415300)
But one thing is certain, flying is going to become more expensive, much more expensive.

I was surprised to pay the same a week ago (compared to a year ago) after the increase in oil price. So, not yet.

JackieH 08.06.2022 18:17

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bowlie (Post 3415210)
likely LX will find them a flight on one of their partners probably involving a connection somewhere.

So far, they seem to be OK, same for friends flying back to Phoenix and Houston, and Chicago. Got people here for special celebrations in our region from all over the world this w/end.

greenmount 09.06.2022 07:08

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axa (Post 3415306)
I was surprised to pay the same a week ago (compared to a year ago) after the increase in oil price. So, not yet.

We payed such high fares for years, unjustified for the duration of flight, other fares in the area, the quality of service and the fact the route we used was always fully booked. For some reason it's cheaper now. They eliminated a company from this route leaving us to have only once choice and the only cheaper alternative was the Czech airline through Prague (made it from 2 and a half hours to 5-6 hours but Prague airport is new and large and the waiting is not so bad) but they were also eliminated from the game at one point. I can't say I am sorry for anything that happens to Swiss as it won't make much of a difference to me (somebody else will offer an expensive, poor service again if not them) as I personally don't travel much outside Europe.
So driving.....yeah, it's still a cheaper alternative for some. :) Of course, if you have a longer holiday in the summer.

ecb 09.06.2022 11:10

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
I booked an Easyjet flight at the last minute (night before) to visit a sick relative and 8 hours later (at 3am) they cancelled. I was refunded the ticket cost that day. I applied on the website form for EU compensation and received that 2 weeks later direct into my bank account, the details of which I had provided on the webclaim form.

I have not tried to claim for a reimbursement of my extra costs to reach my destination .. basically I booked via Swiss two hours before departure and it cost me 550 chf Ö but the 270 chf compensation goes a fair way to covering that.

So there are refunds, reimbursement of additional costs to get you to your destination and compensation under the EU regulations. 3 different things and on Easyjet at least, 3 different forms.

Treverus 09.06.2022 11:16

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ecb (Post 3415478)
I booked an Easyjet flight at the last minute (night before) to visit a sick relative and 8 hours later (at 3am) they cancelled. I was refunded the ticket cost that day. I applied on the website form for EU compensation and received that 2 weeks later direct into my bank account, the details of which I had provided on the webclaim form.

I have not tried to claim for a reimbursement of my extra costs to reach my destination .. basically I booked via Swiss two hours before departure and it cost me 550 chf … but the 270 chf compensation goes a fair way to covering that.

So there are refunds, reimbursement of additional costs to get you to your destination and compensation under the EU regulations. 3 different things and on Easyjet at least, 3 different forms.

When was that? I have a flight in July they didnt cancel, but moved the flight time for 14 hours... instead of the early morning would I arrive late at night after all rental car counters closed... so it is pointless for us as we dont want to get stranded in some tier three airport in the French countryside... The email informing us told us we are free to rebook or cancel, but we'd need to get in touch with their support. That support is currently so overwhelmed that they even switched off the chat bot on their website... I sent and email through their website form and hope I will get a reply within the next six weeks...

ecb 09.06.2022 11:17

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 3415480)
When was that? I have a flight in July they didnt cancel, but moved the flight time for 14 hours... instead of the early morning would I arrive late at night after all rental car counters closed... so it is pointless for us as we dont want to get stranded in some tier three airport in the French countryside... The email informing us told us we are free to rebook or cancel, but we'd need to get in touch with their support. That support is currently so overwhelmed that they even switched off the chat bot on their website... I sent and email through their website form and hope I will get a reply within the next six weeks...

This was last month.

JackieH 09.06.2022 15:05

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Time to re-think the way we fly. It is nonsense to fly all over Europe for a short week-end. From where I live, flying to Paris, Milan, Vienna, and other central Europe places is non-sensical, having to get to airport 3 hours before, transport to and from, extortionate parking charges, meals, etc, etc - and then same at t'other end- when jumping on the train takes about same time, but stressfree, great countryside, and town to town. Or night trains for those who don't really enjoy looking out to amazing countryside.

And for long-haul even more so. Make it count, go for 2 weeks or more. I know someone who flies over Friday to Sunday from Texas - just makes NO sense.

AbFab 09.06.2022 15:14

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JackieH (Post 3415559)
Time to re-think the way we fly. It is nonsense to fly all over Europe for a short week-end. From where I live, flying to Paris, Milan, Vienna, and other central Europe places is non-sensical, having to get to airport 3 hours before, transport to and from, extortionate parking charges, meals, etc, etc - and then same at t'other end- when jumping on the train takes about same time, but stressfree, great countryside, and town to town. Or night trains for those who don't really enjoy looking out to amazing countryside.

And for long-haul even more so. Make it count, go for 2 weeks or more. I know someone who flies over Friday to Sunday from Texas - just makes NO sense.

Thanks for the motherly advice!

It all falls flat on its face when thereís a national rail strike in the UKÖ

Tom1234 09.06.2022 15:18

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AbFab (Post 3415561)
Thanks for the motherly advice!

It all falls flat on its face when thereís a national rail strike in the UKÖ

It was good advice for continental Europe.

roegner 09.06.2022 15:20

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JackieH (Post 3415559)
Time to re-think the way we fly. It is nonsense to fly all over Europe for a short week-end. From where I live, flying to Paris, Milan, Vienna, and other central Europe places is non-sensical, having to get to airport 3 hours before, transport to and from, extortionate parking charges, meals, etc, etc - and then same at t'other end- when jumping on the train takes about same time, but stressfree, great countryside, and town to town. Or night trains for those who don't really enjoy looking out to amazing countryside.

And for long-haul even more so. Make it count, go for 2 weeks or more. I know someone who flies over Friday to Sunday from Texas - just makes NO sense.

Thanks but no thanks. I do not need to be 3 hours beforehand at the airport and I can go there by public transport.
Normally, if I leave at 5 pm, I am more than in time for my 6.30 pm flight and am in Berlin at 9 pm latest. That is 4 hours or less.

The quickest connection SBB shows me is 8 hours and 51 minutes. That twice for a weekend? No way.

And going for 2 weeks. Not everyone here is retired.

Edit: werenīt you for a long weekend in Spain recently? I remember you asked about when you should be at the airport?

blackbird 09.06.2022 16:47

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
It is a waste of time, to be at the airport for a flight in europe with hand luggage only.
Max 2 hours before you have to be there.

the earliest flights from Zurich leave around 06 am,the airport opens around 04am

Belgianmum 09.06.2022 17:23

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roegner (Post 3415564)
Thanks but no thanks. I do not need to be 3 hours beforehand at the airport and I can go there by public transport.
Normally, if I leave at 5 pm, I am more than in time for my 6.30 pm flight and am in Berlin at 9 pm latest. That is 4 hours or less.

The quickest connection SBB shows me is 8 hours and 51 minutes. That twice for a weekend? No way.

And going for 2 weeks. Not everyone here is retired.

Edit: werenīt you for a long weekend in Spain recently? I remember you asked about when you should be at the airport?

It really depends on where youíre going and how long for in my opinion.

Some destinations whilst perfectly accessible by train from here would require a fair amount of faffing about and changes of train so are much easier and more convenient to travel to by plane.

Business travellers are also more likely to go by plane unless itís a straightforward rail journey.

roegner 09.06.2022 17:26

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Belgianmum (Post 3415603)
It really depends on where youíre going and how long for in my opinion.

Some destinations whilst perfectly accessible by train from here would require a fair amount of faffing about and changes of train so are much easier and more convenient to travel to by plane.

Business travellers are also more likely to go by plane unless itís a straightforward rail journey.

I agree with you. My comment was just that sometimes a train is not advantageous for short trips and a longer distance.

Belgianmum 09.06.2022 17:35

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roegner (Post 3415606)
I agree with you. My comment was just that sometimes a train is not advantageous for short trips and a longer distance.

Exactly. It makes no sense to go by train for a weekend in Berlin.

bowlie 09.06.2022 17:36

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Or you can take the train to the plane. Switzerland is blessed with the airport rail stations at Geneva and ZŁrich. If GVA could only have more trains with floor level access.

venetian 09.06.2022 17:52

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Belgianmum (Post 3415613)
Exactly. It makes no sense to go by train for a weekend in Berlin.

With the night train mentioned above you can spend the full week working in CH and the full weekend in Berlin, you just change the place where you sleep. Maybe a bit expensive but on the other side you save the cost of accomodation in Berlin for Friday night.
I'm not saying everybody should do it, but Berlin is one of the lucky destinations well connected to CH/ZH with NightJets so it's worth thinking about it. I'm actually considering it myself, I had very good experiences in the past going from ZH to Croatia with night trains.

For daily trains the rule of thumb in the transportation community is more or less as follows: for travel times below 4 hours the train can beat the plane (e.g. Paris-Lyon, Milan-Rome), above 6 hours it becomes a niche market. 8 hours, I did it once, not looking forward to it (in this I agree with you!).

Belgianmum 09.06.2022 17:57

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by venetian (Post 3415621)
With the night train mentioned above you can spend the full week working in CH and the full weekend in Berlin, you just change the place where you sleep. Maybe a bit expensive but on the other side you save the cost of accomodation in Berlin for Friday night.
I'm not saying everybody should do it, but Berlin is one of the lucky destinations well connected to CH/ZH with NightJets so it's worth thinking about it. I'm actually considering it myself, I had very good experiences in the past going from ZH to Croatia with night trains.

For daily trains the rule of thumb in the transportation community is more or less as follows: for travel times below 4 hours the train can beat the plane (e.g. Paris-Lyon, Milan-Rome), above 6 hours it becomes a niche market. 8 hours, I did it once, not looking forward to it (in this I agree with you!).

We donít all live in Zurich.;)

I did Neuch‚tel to Brussels once with a change in Basel. It is not something I will ever do again.

roegner 09.06.2022 18:00

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by venetian (Post 3415621)
Maybe a bit expensive but on the other side you save the cost of accomodation in Berlin for Friday night.

No need for that, I have a place there.

PS; as far as I saw last time I checked, there is no direct connection? Has that been changed now?

blackbird 09.06.2022 21:11

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
There are direct ICE from Basel to Berlin, no connections necessary.

roegner 09.06.2022 21:18

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbird (Post 3415677)
There are direct ICE from Basel to Berlin, no connections necessary.

Thanks. I live just outside of Zurich.

koahiatamadl 09.06.2022 21:22

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Belgianmum (Post 3415072)
As I said we are lucky to have that option but it still takes two days either end of a visit for us to travel to see my family.
The vast majority of posters on EF are probably not wanting to travel to the uk and even those that are may not have the luxury of having the time needed to travel by car or train so plane travel Ós their only option.

Excluding long-haul flights - unless your destination is close to the arrival airport you may be surprised. Door to door it takes me about 12 hrs to drive to the UK, via the tunnel vs 8 hrs to fly, pick up a hire car and drive up into coastal Suffolk. It would take longer to get to my final destination without a car. At that point it’s a day any way you look at it but driving along in my car is infinitely more relaxing.

For my first post pandemic flight back to the UK in late March it took me ten hrs - most efficient ZRH experience i can recall but nothing but delays at every single step once we had taxied to our arrival gate at Heathrow, this did include waiting to get off the plane, to go through passport control, an hr for Enterprise to give me a car (at 11pm) and road closures…so in July I’m driving again.

Treverus 09.06.2022 22:23

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by venetian (Post 3415621)
With the night train mentioned above you can spend the full week working in CH and the full weekend in Berlin, you just change the place where you sleep. Maybe a bit expensive but on the other side you save the cost of accomodation in Berlin for Friday night.
I'm not saying everybody should do it, but Berlin is one of the lucky destinations well connected to CH/ZH with NightJets so it's worth thinking about it. I'm actually considering it myself, I had very good experiences in the past going from ZH to Croatia with night trains.

For daily trains the rule of thumb in the transportation community is more or less as follows: for travel times below 4 hours the train can beat the plane (e.g. Paris-Lyon, Milan-Rome), above 6 hours it becomes a niche market. 8 hours, I did it once, not looking forward to it (in this I agree with you!).

Iíve been to Berlin last weekend and decided to go at least 1-2 times more this year. Flights for the weekend are at great times and cost around 100 chf return on easy jet and 160 on SwissÖ I donít know about you but I prefer to spend Friday night in Berlin than on the train.

minimimi 09.06.2022 23:48

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Belgianmum (Post 3415603)

Business travellers are also more likely to go by plane unless itís a straightforward rail journey.

I agree.

It also takes much less time if travelling business or with a higher level miles card. E.g. Swiss business or star alliance gold check-in closes 30 minutes before the flight, hardly any security or boarding queue. Usually priority with baggage delivery as well. It is a much faster and predictable affair.

Also if you happen to be early at the airport you have lounge access and Swiss lounges are quite decent (not best but among better ones that I've visited so far).

IslanderInTheMountains 10.06.2022 00:14

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bowlie (Post 3415614)
If GVA could only have more trains with floor level access.

This! I'm always baffled when I get off a floor level train at Gare Cornavin only to be picked up by a train with stairs that goes to the airport.

minimimi 10.06.2022 00:17

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IslanderInTheMountains (Post 3415706)
This! I'm always baffled when I get off a floor level train at Gare Cornavin only to be picked up by a train with stairs that goes to the airport.

Similar experience recently... Actually was not going to the airport but was with a stroller and had not expected a train going to the airport to be with stairs :confused:

greenmount 10.06.2022 00:18

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by koahiatamadl (Post 3415680)
Excluding long-haul flights - unless your destination is close to the arrival airport you may be surprised. Door to door it takes me about 12 hrs to drive to the UK, via the tunnel vs 8 hrs to fly, pick up a hire car and drive up into coastal Suffolk. It would take longer to get to my final destination without a car. At that point it’s a day any way you look at it but driving along in my car is infinitely more relaxing.

For my first post pandemic flight back to the UK in late March it took me ten hrs - most efficient ZRH experience i can recall but nothing but delays at every single step once we had taxied to our arrival gate at Heathrow, this did include waiting to get off the plane, to go through passport control, an hr for Enterprise to give me a car (at 11pm) and road closures…so in July I’m driving again.

And with two drivers is even more relaxing. :)

Travelling for business is something else..

bowlie 10.06.2022 07:58

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Only the long haul trains going to the German speaking areas, and regional trains that stop everywhere, have floor level doors. In particular the Valais destined trains connecting the airport to ski resorts, that Hannibal took, are still in use.

Those trains are lucrative foreign currency spinners, and are not inexpensive as few tourists have the demi-prix card.

venetian 10.06.2022 08:28

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Belgianmum (Post 3415624)
We donít all live in Zurich.;)

Of course :) I was just assuming Zurich airport as comparison, but yes, it's not the only one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roegner (Post 3415625)
PS; as far as I saw last time I checked, there is no direct connection? Has that been changed now?

It's being advertized as part of the night network. Northbound trains (Berlin, Hamburg, Amsterdam) call at Zurich and Basel.
https://www.sbb.ch/de/freizeit-ferie.../nachtzug.html

Biro 10.06.2022 09:04

Re: Swiss cancels flights for Summer 2022
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Belgianmum (Post 3415613)
Exactly. It makes no sense to go by train for a weekend in Berlin.


It can do it you take a night train....


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