Driving someone's car in CH and Italy - Page 2

stephen_NE · #21 03.12.2022, 00:45

	Quote:	st2lemans
	A EU-resident cannot drive a CH registered vehicle outside of CH + FL.

Is this the case even if the CH-resident owner is in the vehicle? The TCS website (in French) refers to "borrowed vehicles", which sounds like a bit of a grey area.

My partner (Belgian national and resident) and I always share the driving between the two countries. I may have learned something useful here...

st2lemans · #22 03.12.2022, 09:09

	Quote:	stephen_NE
	Is this the case even if the CH-resident owner is in the vehicle?

No.

Tom

st2lemans · #23 03.12.2022, 09:11

	Quote:	BorisZ
	Do you mind sharing what's the price for this service in Switzerland?

30-40 to get it notarized, another 30 for the apostilla.

Tom

AjarnPat · #24 03.12.2022, 10:11

Not sure if I have missed something here, but I think you should call your insurance company to check this. I am sure I did this some time ago. My mother-in-law (British) was visiting and wanted to use my car. I was tiold this was no problem in Switzerland, no need even to tell them (as long as over 24) and also no problem in Europe. If I was with her, this would be fine. If not, I'd need a written statement, signed by me, aiuthorsing her to drive the car (if stopped by Eu police). No notary needed.

cinzia_t · #25 03.12.2022, 14:34

You need a written permissiin by the owner and make sure that insurance and driving license Sto arrivando! Ok.

Here is the form

https://www.tcs.ch/mam/Digital-Media...ttpersonen.pdf

I don’t understand some replies in this forum. The OP is not doing anything illegal.

aSwissInTheUS · #26 03.12.2022, 15:21

	Quote:	AjarnPat
	Not sure if I have missed something here, but I think you should call your insurance company to check this.

In a bog standard Swiss car insurance any driver is covered as long as they have a valid driving license and there driving ability is not otherwise impaired.

	Quote:	AjarnPat
	If not, I'd need a written statement, signed by me, aiuthorsing her to drive the car (if stopped by Eu police). No notary needed.

The statement needed in case the police suspect the vehicle might be stolen. They might still do so in the presence of such a statement. Specially if it was not notarized. Logically, if somebody steals a car, they might as well write and sign their own authorizing statement. The police might still not accept it if the signature was notarized by a Swiss notary, hence st2lemans going even further and also getting an apostille on top of it.

	Quote:	AjarnPat
	My mother-in-law (British) was visiting and wanted to use my car.

Citcenship is not relevant! Relevant is were she lives. If she lives in the EU customs area (which is give or take the whole EU) she is subject to the regular import regulations if she brings in valuable goods, which are not yet taxed, into the EU customs area. Such as in example a Swiss car.

A car insurance might not know about all the details of customs law and hence tell you this was o.k.. Or an other possibility is that your mother did not live in the EU. Which means the tourist exemptions given by the Istanbul Convention on Temporary Admission apply and the car can be used by her in the EU for up to 6 months as a tourist.

	Quote:	cinzia_t
	I don’t understand some replies in this forum. The OP is not doing anything illegal.

OP initially said they are an EU resident. You can read the rules regarding non-EU cars brought into the EU by EU residents in Article 215 of Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) 2015/2446

st2lemans · #27 03.12.2022, 21:17

	Quote:	cinzia_t
	.The OP is not doing anything illegal.

Yes and no. While technically NOT illegal, it is a customs violation that can lead to the seizure of the vehicle and up to 5x VAT penalty.

Tom

BorisZ · #28 03.12.2022, 22:28

	Quote:	st2lemans
	Yes and no. While technically NOT illegal, it is a customs violation that can lead to the seizure of the vehicle and up to 5x VAT penalty. Tom

I'm residing outside of the EU and I can easily prove that should a case reach a court (fiction).

I'm really not doing anything illegal, I don't want to break any laws, I don't want to launder money, I respect all that, that's why I am making this research on fiding what's the proper way.

Thanks to the members who provided me with a file that contains the permit, I'll have this signed when I land in Switzerland in the notary office.

PanFastic · #29 03.12.2022, 23:11

	Quote:	AlexSec
	Maybe just a thought : Could you go to a legal notary and do a "bailment agreement" (not sure if this is the correct english translation) ? Or any kind of paper done at a notary (where the owner gives you full access to the item and use it abroad )and just ask for it in IT + EN/DE

This was a good answer to a simple question.
If you want to be legal (father in law is not in the car when you travel) go to a legal notary with your father in law and get a paper issued.

If you don’t do it, the chances of you getting in trouble are little, but there is a chance. Don’t take that chance. It was in the newspaper last year.

roegner · #30 03.12.2022, 23:18

	Quote:	BorisZ
	I'm residing outside of the EU and I can easily prove that should a case reach a court (fiction).

Nothing to do with a court. Your car will be seized and only released after paying an x amount of money, depending on the country you are driving to.

Trying tricks never helps.

catandmouse · #31 04.12.2022, 11:46

Coming from the UK you need to be aware that insurance works differently here. It's the vehicle that's insured, not the driver. There's no problem from an insurance perspective to taking any vehicle insured in Switzerland into the EU with anyone driving.
The issue with a Swiss registered vehicle being driven by an EU resident into the EU is about customs and import duties. For many years no-one cared too much but a few years ago the Germans and Italians started getting pernickety and this led to vehicles being impounded until customs duties and fines had been paid. It is possible to drive a Swiss vehicle into the EU as an EU resident, but it requires the filling in of paperwork, effectively a temporary import document for the vehicle. I have no idea how this works in practice.
If you rent a car here in Switzerland as an EU resident and want to drive it over the border, the rental companies will give you a car with the appropriate paperwork.

st2lemans · #32 04.12.2022, 13:07

	Quote:	catandmouse
	The issue with a Swiss registered vehicle being driven by an EU resident into the EU is about customs and import duties.

And vice-versa.

Tom

st2lemans · #33 04.12.2022, 13:09

	Quote:	PanFastic
	If you want to be legal (father in law is not in the car when you travel) go to a legal notary with your father in law and get a paper issued.

That is not sufficient for people residing in the EU.

Tom

aSwissInTheUS · #34 04.12.2022, 18:17

	Quote:	catandmouse
	If you rent a car here in Switzerland as an EU resident and want to drive it over the border, the rental companies will give you a car with the appropriate paperwork.

The car rental contract.

Once again please read the Article 215 of the Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) 2015/2446. It is all explained their.

	Quote:
	Article 215 Use of means of transport by natural persons who have their habitual residence in the customs territory of the Union (Article 250(2)(d) of the Code) 1. Natural persons who have their habitual residence in the customs territory of the Union shall benefit from total relief from import duty in respect of means of transport which they use privately and occasionally, at the request of the registration holder, provided that the registration holder is in the customs territory of the Union at the time of use. 2. Natural persons who have their habitual residence in the customs territory of the Union shall benefit from total relief from import duty in respect of means of transport which they have hired under a written contract and use privately for one of the following purposes: (a) to return to their place of residence in the customs territory of the Union; (b) to leave the customs territory of the Union. 2a. Natural persons who have their habitual residence in the customs territory of the Union shall benefit from total relief from import duty in respect of means of road transport which they have hired under a written contract concluded with a professional car hire service and which they use privately. 3. Natural persons who have their habitual residence in the customs territory of the Union shall benefit from total relief from import duties in respect of means of transport which they use commercially or privately provided that they are employed by the owner, hirer or lessee of the means of transport and that the employer is established outside that customs territory. Private use of the means of transport is allowed for journeys between the place of work and the place of residence of the employee or with the purpose of performing a professional task of the employee as stipulated in the contract of employment. At the request of the customs authorities, the person using the means of transport shall present a copy of the contract of employment.

BorisZ · #35 05.01.2023, 22:35

Quick update:

I got back a few days ago from Italy. First, when I visited a notary in Lausanne, they told me that this declaration is not really valid and they don't want to take me money for that and that I could drive the car without any issues.

I visited Italy via Simplon, then traveled to Lugano 3-4 times as I have friends there, and passed another 2 border crossings near Lugano a couple of times. I was stopped multiple times by IT/CH customs officers (most probably due to VD plates) and it was the standard question, if I am bringing some gifts or if I have something to declare.

Once, the customs officer asked for my and my wife's passport, he checked them and asked me whose car is this since I am a tourist, I told him and he wished me a good trip.

Overall, I haven't faced any issues at all. I entered Schengen with my non-EU passport, just in case, as suggested previously.

Thanks again to everyone who contributed here.

P.S. Gotthard tunnel on Monday was crazy! I waited 2 hours

MazingaZ · #36 05.01.2023, 23:26

https://amp.tio.ch/svizzera/attualit...-vacanza-posto

Sure keep playing with the fire until you get burnt!

Biro · #37 06.01.2023, 07:28

	Quote:	BorisZ
	P.S. Gotthard tunnel on Monday was crazy! I waited 2 hours

Only............, you were lucky !!

markalex · #38 06.01.2023, 09:47

You can hire a car and have no worries, just nice break in Italy.

You won't worry about being stopped by the financial police, run into by some crazed Italian driver or having the windows broken by a local thief looking for a quick buck, because EVERYTHING will be covered/dealt with my the car hire company, including the insurance if you buy it of course.

Better yet, take the train; more of an adventure, even less worries, look here.

https://www.thetrainline.com

BorisZ · #39 06.01.2023, 13:21

	Quote:	MazingaZ
	https://amp.tio.ch/svizzera/attualit...-vacanza-posto Sure keep playing with the fire until you get burnt!

You are obviously not following this thread and have no idea what is being discussed.

I am not Italian, and not a resident in Italy or the EU (in the past 2 years or so), the link that you have provided is completely unrelated (to this case/discussion).

MazingaZ · #40 06.01.2023, 21:41

You are driving a Swiss car in Italy which is not yours.
Whether you are resident or not is irrelevant.

In Italy the law states: la legge non ammette ignoranza.

I let you to Google to understand what it means.