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  #21  
Old 03.12.2022, 00:45
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Re: Driving someone's car in CH and Italy

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A EU-resident cannot drive a CH registered vehicle outside of CH + FL.
Is this the case even if the CH-resident owner is in the vehicle? The TCS website (in French) refers to "borrowed vehicles", which sounds like a bit of a grey area.

My partner (Belgian national and resident) and I always share the driving between the two countries. I may have learned something useful here...
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  #22  
Old 03.12.2022, 09:09
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Re: Driving someone's car in CH and Italy

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Is this the case even if the CH-resident owner is in the vehicle?
No.

Tom
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  #23  
Old 03.12.2022, 09:11
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Re: Driving someone's car in CH and Italy

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Do you mind sharing what's the price for this service in Switzerland?
30-40 to get it notarized, another 30 for the apostilla.

Tom
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  #24  
Old 03.12.2022, 10:11
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Re: Driving someone's car in CH and Italy

Not sure if I have missed something here, but I think you should call your insurance company to check this. I am sure I did this some time ago. My mother-in-law (British) was visiting and wanted to use my car. I was tiold this was no problem in Switzerland, no need even to tell them (as long as over 24) and also no problem in Europe. If I was with her, this would be fine. If not, I'd need a written statement, signed by me, aiuthorsing her to drive the car (if stopped by Eu police). No notary needed.
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  #25  
Old 03.12.2022, 14:34
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Re: Driving someone's car in CH and Italy

You need a written permissiin by the owner and make sure that insurance and driving license Sto arrivando! Ok.

Here is the form

https://www.tcs.ch/mam/Digital-Media...ttpersonen.pdf

I donít understand some replies in this forum. The OP is not doing anything illegal.
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  #26  
Old 03.12.2022, 15:21
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Re: Driving someone's car in CH and Italy

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Not sure if I have missed something here, but I think you should call your insurance company to check this.
In a bog standard Swiss car insurance any driver is covered as long as they have a valid driving license and there driving ability is not otherwise impaired.

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If not, I'd need a written statement, signed by me, aiuthorsing her to drive the car (if stopped by Eu police). No notary needed.
The statement needed in case the police suspect the vehicle might be stolen. They might still do so in the presence of such a statement. Specially if it was not notarized. Logically, if somebody steals a car, they might as well write and sign their own authorizing statement. The police might still not accept it if the signature was notarized by a Swiss notary, hence st2lemans going even further and also getting an apostille on top of it.

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My mother-in-law (British) was visiting and wanted to use my car.
Citcenship is not relevant! Relevant is were she lives. If she lives in the EU customs area (which is give or take the whole EU) she is subject to the regular import regulations if she brings in valuable goods, which are not yet taxed, into the EU customs area. Such as in example a Swiss car.

A car insurance might not know about all the details of customs law and hence tell you this was o.k.. Or an other possibility is that your mother did not live in the EU. Which means the tourist exemptions given by the Istanbul Convention on Temporary Admission apply and the car can be used by her in the EU for up to 6 months as a tourist.

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I don’t understand some replies in this forum. The OP is not doing anything illegal.
OP initially said they are an EU resident. You can read the rules regarding non-EU cars brought into the EU by EU residents in Article 215 of Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) 2015/2446
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  #27  
Old 03.12.2022, 21:17
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Re: Driving someone's car in CH and Italy

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.The OP is not doing anything illegal.
Yes and no. While technically NOT illegal, it is a customs violation that can lead to the seizure of the vehicle and up to 5x VAT penalty.

Tom
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  #28  
Old 03.12.2022, 22:28
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Re: Driving someone's car in CH and Italy

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Yes and no. While technically NOT illegal, it is a customs violation that can lead to the seizure of the vehicle and up to 5x VAT penalty.

Tom
I'm residing outside of the EU and I can easily prove that should a case reach a court (fiction).

I'm really not doing anything illegal, I don't want to break any laws, I don't want to launder money, I respect all that, that's why I am making this research on fiding what's the proper way.

Thanks to the members who provided me with a file that contains the permit, I'll have this signed when I land in Switzerland in the notary office.
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  #29  
Old 03.12.2022, 23:11
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Re: Driving someone's car in CH and Italy

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Maybe just a thought : Could you go to a legal notary and do a "bailment agreement" (not sure if this is the correct english translation) ? Or any kind of paper done at a notary (where the owner gives you full access to the item and use it abroad )and just ask for it in IT + EN/DE
This was a good answer to a simple question.
If you want to be legal (father in law is not in the car when you travel) go to a legal notary with your father in law and get a paper issued.

If you donít do it, the chances of you getting in trouble are little, but there is a chance. Donít take that chance. It was in the newspaper last year.
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  #30  
Old 03.12.2022, 23:18
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Re: Driving someone's car in CH and Italy

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I'm residing outside of the EU and I can easily prove that should a case reach a court (fiction).
Nothing to do with a court. Your car will be seized and only released after paying an x amount of money, depending on the country you are driving to.

Trying tricks never helps.
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  #31  
Old 04.12.2022, 11:46
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Re: Driving someone's car in CH and Italy

Coming from the UK you need to be aware that insurance works differently here. It's the vehicle that's insured, not the driver. There's no problem from an insurance perspective to taking any vehicle insured in Switzerland into the EU with anyone driving.
The issue with a Swiss registered vehicle being driven by an EU resident into the EU is about customs and import duties. For many years no-one cared too much but a few years ago the Germans and Italians started getting pernickety and this led to vehicles being impounded until customs duties and fines had been paid. It is possible to drive a Swiss vehicle into the EU as an EU resident, but it requires the filling in of paperwork, effectively a temporary import document for the vehicle. I have no idea how this works in practice.
If you rent a car here in Switzerland as an EU resident and want to drive it over the border, the rental companies will give you a car with the appropriate paperwork.
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  #32  
Old 04.12.2022, 13:07
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Re: Driving someone's car in CH and Italy

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The issue with a Swiss registered vehicle being driven by an EU resident into the EU is about customs and import duties.
And vice-versa.

Tom
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  #33  
Old 04.12.2022, 13:09
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Re: Driving someone's car in CH and Italy

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If you want to be legal (father in law is not in the car when you travel) go to a legal notary with your father in law and get a paper issued.
That is not sufficient for people residing in the EU.

Tom

Last edited by st2lemans; 04.12.2022 at 18:38.
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  #34  
Old 04.12.2022, 18:17
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Re: Driving someone's car in CH and Italy

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If you rent a car here in Switzerland as an EU resident and want to drive it over the border, the rental companies will give you a car with the appropriate paperwork.
The car rental contract.

Once again please read the Article 215 of the Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) 2015/2446. It is all explained their.

Quote:
Article 215
Use of means of transport by natural persons who have their
habitual residence in the customs territory of the Union
(Article 250(2)(d) of the Code)

1. Natural persons who have their habitual residence in the customs
territory of the Union shall benefit from total relief from import duty in
respect of means of transport which they use privately and occasionally,
at the request of the registration holder, provided that the registration
holder is in the customs territory of the Union at the time of use.

2. Natural persons who have their habitual residence in the customs
territory of the Union shall benefit from total relief from import duty in
respect of means of transport which they have hired under a written
contract and use privately for one of the following purposes:
(a) to return to their place of residence in the customs territory of the
Union;
(b) to leave the customs territory of the Union.

2a. Natural persons who have their habitual residence in the customs
territory of the Union shall benefit from total relief from import duty in
respect of means of road transport which they have hired under a
written contract concluded with a professional car hire service and
which they use privately.

3. Natural persons who have their habitual residence in the customs
territory of the Union shall benefit from total relief from import duties
in respect of means of transport which they use commercially or
privately provided that they are employed by the owner, hirer or
lessee of the means of transport and that the employer is established
outside that customs territory.

Private use of the means of transport is allowed for journeys between
the place of work and the place of residence of the employee or with the
purpose of performing a professional task of the employee as stipulated
in the contract of employment.
At the request of the customs authorities, the person using the means of
transport shall present a copy of the contract of employment.
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  #35  
Old 05.01.2023, 22:35
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Re: Driving someone's car in CH and Italy

Quick update:

I got back a few days ago from Italy. First, when I visited a notary in Lausanne, they told me that this declaration is not really valid and they don't want to take me money for that and that I could drive the car without any issues.

I visited Italy via Simplon, then traveled to Lugano 3-4 times as I have friends there, and passed another 2 border crossings near Lugano a couple of times. I was stopped multiple times by IT/CH customs officers (most probably due to VD plates) and it was the standard question, if I am bringing some gifts or if I have something to declare.

Once, the customs officer asked for my and my wife's passport, he checked them and asked me whose car is this since I am a tourist, I told him and he wished me a good trip.

Overall, I haven't faced any issues at all. I entered Schengen with my non-EU passport, just in case, as suggested previously.

Thanks again to everyone who contributed here.

P.S. Gotthard tunnel on Monday was crazy! I waited 2 hours
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  #36  
Old 05.01.2023, 23:26
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Re: Driving someone's car in CH and Italy

https://amp.tio.ch/svizzera/attualit...-vacanza-posto

Sure keep playing with the fire until you get burnt!
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  #37  
Old 06.01.2023, 07:28
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Re: Driving someone's car in CH and Italy

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P.S. Gotthard tunnel on Monday was crazy! I waited 2 hours

Only............, you were lucky !!
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  #38  
Old 06.01.2023, 09:47
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Re: Driving someone's car in CH and Italy

You can hire a car and have no worries, just nice break in Italy.

You won't worry about being stopped by the financial police, run into by some crazed Italian driver or having the windows broken by a local thief looking for a quick buck, because EVERYTHING will be covered/dealt with my the car hire company, including the insurance if you buy it of course.

Better yet, take the train; more of an adventure, even less worries, look here.

https://www.thetrainline.com
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  #39  
Old 06.01.2023, 13:21
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Re: Driving someone's car in CH and Italy

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https://amp.tio.ch/svizzera/attualit...-vacanza-posto

Sure keep playing with the fire until you get burnt!
You are obviously not following this thread and have no idea what is being discussed.

I am not Italian, and not a resident in Italy or the EU (in the past 2 years or so), the link that you have provided is completely unrelated (to this case/discussion).
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  #40  
Old 06.01.2023, 21:41
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Re: Driving someone's car in CH and Italy

You are driving a Swiss car in Italy which is not yours.
Whether you are resident or not is irrelevant.

In Italy the law states: la legge non ammette ignoranza.

I let you to Google to understand what it means.
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